WWL>Topics>>5-20 9am Tommy, ground troops against ISIS?

5-20 9am Tommy, ground troops against ISIS?

May 20, 2015|

Tommy talks to Justin Logan, Director of Foreign Policy Studies at the Cato Institute, and Tzvi Kahn, Senior Policy Analyst at the Foreign Policy Initiative.

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Automatically Generated Transcript (may not be 100% accurate)

I think we have pretty well covered the M coyote topic David so. Apparently make sense of me don't be if you kill the alpha male in the rest of home world. I'm confused and and I get rid of them you follow him to ban anyway of the band but we didn't have time and distance. Molina and am Thai finance. Ms. polio was doable and if that is the airy it was favorable for. Packed court Denham coyotes and every one calling this is Dennis where they live. Well if you like them you know and some others aren't gonna come in and and take their place of it was a favorable environment to begin with. And I'll have to leave it like dad for now we're gonna move very very seriously into a topic that. And it's Diana notion the US send in ground troops to fight ices senator Lindsey Graham column for ten who is by the way in air force. Pilot a believer was known for 101000 American soldiers. In Iraq to help fight the terrorist group. And polls show a majority of Americans would be okay with boots on the ground. Half an outlet to hear from me if you are in the military or have a family member in a military. And me into the US risk American lives it would be too risky not to send in troops and limit the cost of that. Well beyond the cost a fortune on a personal loss of life was nobody really favors blots. There's a big but as we watch crisis take over cities like ramadi. The Iraqi troops that we train drop their weapons and run. Leaving behind all the equipment and I just I don't think you're gonna get the job done with just jets. Now let us not to thank you David lets you adjust and loaded and thinks he's a director of foreign policy studies. At the Cato Institute good morning Justin. Good morning to you for people that haven't been following this tell us about the fall of ramadi and and how significant that is. Well it's interesting at the advance of the site as many. It is viewed as a sort of permanent. Development right to do that we registered talking about a crisis obviously Monday. But headed to Americans streams full lead students outlaw that we were also very alarmed when they got. Doubled over on the Kurdish Ashenberg. Who we historically fought. Correctly were very considered fighting. It's a bit in the reviews are being ten feet tall until about ten days later when the hatch Merck pushed them back. So the ramadi question is consequential right it's an important provincial capital. But at the same time the extent to which iTunes can maintain and control and government peace its territory. It very much open to question I mean we remember when the American forces were on the ground large numbers couple 100000 of them. We had a pretty decent timing clearing areas but holding areas in governing. Is much more difficult so I think it's you know worth noting worse being concerned about. The time has away changing things consequential of the battlefield. Now Rometty was. Ramadi breath there was. Basically the Sunni capital or do I have that wrong. So it's been. On our province which uses predominately Sunni province that is the provincial capital debt problems. So. How to resolve this figure out even with. So Sunnis Shi. And the third one. Well there're Kurds record stars it's right because that's AMOCO. Chemical Ali gas. Shop where such agreements Sudanese Arabs Chia Arabs in early rock and then Kurds were sort of disparate group altogether. In some senses and hurt the allotment to the certainty resistance that we were fighting years ago American forces American. Were on the ground in large numbers. And that it does Sunni. Minority. In rock. Doesn't. View itself as being represented by the jewelry the Shia government intact right. So they're susceptible all sorts of arguments or crew were treated to resist. And so there's absolutely. Ambivalence among the Sunni community that they don't like crisis particularly the party in Baghdad very much either. Com and development that we had. In terms of Calgary is that the same element that we had we had boots on the ground. An added that the Iraqis or Iraqi national security forces. Had not performed very well on the battlefield and the people who are performed reasonably well on the battlefield are number one in the Kurdish. Who has been continuing its relationship with the central Baghdad. In Shia militias who all our. In some sense proxies of the central government. But also prone to rampaging through Sunni communities. Who you know it had reached Shia communities and Saddam Hussein repeating. And sort of getting paid back in victor's justice. So I think you'd technical term to ignite. Olive dumb guy outside tea that just some load in but Ike and you know I can read a race and form and you when he comes seeing an American they wrote that could be a Triple Crown winner but when it comes to looking at past performances. I don't see any sense in this at all Le senior US military official asked that the US military plan to increase its involvement. As he says the Iraqis have to wanted more than we wanted. And it seems like. I don't know AA and happened in Iraq I believe it's happening in Afghanistan where troops are. So as we leave putting down a weapons there in some cases they've had there's green on blue killings where. The officers themselves in the Afghanistan army or police. Departments whatever it is coming kill American. Offices I don't I don't know with senses makes and you can you deliver a Cogent argument. It did change my mind is they will know this is why we have to put boots on the ground in Iraq. To fight ices and in this is what happens if we don't. No I think you sentencing is exactly right. You know we did we who we were in this movie for nine years right at 2000 US troops on the ground to produce a situation. A political equilibrium that could not. Steady. Absent a permanent American presence in the country. Two you can make a rock and the 51 state if you like and they were going to government. We're going to over watch it we're going to leave tens of thousands of American troops there indefinitely. Make advances Eagles South Korea. Or somewhere like that. Or you can realize that have been disrupted do you. Political order that existed under the Saddam Hussein tyrannies. We now have a situation where there is political order we haven't reached equilibrium Brett yet. And so did the money to people like to say there's no military solution. Role in some sense there's only a military solution right civil wars this sort of thing it and when either one's side wins entirely. Or Nate decides conclude that they could be their interest will be better served by negotiated peace. We're not at that point yet. Yet in Iraq and the American consideration right if iTunes were to take over Baghdad and start exit successfully administering the country. You know hundred million dollars in oil revenues things like that. That would be different sort of concern of what we have now everybody likes to look at this ink spot on the map that they govern. And they don't realize that most of that it on inhabited catcher you've got about 30000 fanatics running around on the Syrian Iraqi border. Now in places like Vermont needs. Trying to establish. What they're calling a healthy which is sort of a decrepit pathetic cal state I think from the point of view of Muslims. So it's something we're watching it something worked trying to you know prevent from spiraling out of control. But it'll be interesting thing will be to observe over the next several weeks what has. Happens in ramadi right so you get people to certain jump to this conclusion that ice is now has swallowed and in the process as digest in Monte. I'm not at all convinced certificate. It's about digesting is there any way and I don't know what the polls have shown. That the American public would stand for this coming off of like you said nine years in the movie you get the the war in Afghanistan that we were in a way distracted from owning got back to. I can't imagine any politician other Lindsey Graham may be some some very conservative Republicans wanting this is the American people supporting it. Will it feel weird scene because it is. Absent I think hopefully it's not walk the headings we would be a different place and it's also the case it. A lot of what's being litigated here in Washington DC. Are people who see their own reputations stake at legacy of the Iraq War right if it were happening in Somalia. Or you know with the local robbed theory there or somewhere like that the debate that we would be happening would be different. But because this is imbued with John McCain legacy and all of these other people like if he were hacked. Having this fight about it though with some world historic event as a Nazi Germany you know river rushing across. Continental Europe. And so I think. But it did that because it it certainly true to demean mentality and the rapper and is now. Net of its group it's hard to overstate the beheading people there crude declined Christians they're throwing homosexual thought the routes to build I mean. They're the sort of cartoon bill. Bit big whose evils hard to overstate the extent to which they threaten the United States. You know being need to get their legs under first and again I think in the coming weeks ahead we're going to see. A very fluid situation on the battlefield and I hope will come to the conclusion that beat Kutcher not a people after. So license once and know its own country that's on his stated goals would it. Eat in an odd way or an obtuse way make it easier to fight ice is if they were to take. Controller with Iraq and then we would know who were fighting panel again and then I hate to say traditional war but no no she'd call it. Sure I mean that they you know the perverse thing you know. Visited the American military. Upset the title fight air by you know getting heavy armored column and drive it out in the middle field somewhere because it's a coincidence of two wars. That we like to fight really good at whereas this insurgency stopped he answered green around. In certain Third World countries in cities is not what we're very good yet so. I think you can make a case that. You know debt sort of set piece battle this sort of thing that we would win. More decisively but unfortunately. You know it was a very sad that you have don't fight on the battlefield that you preferred they tend to fight on the battlefield but they prefer. Of it rises to say so many times we hear about collateral damage and the Arab world heating is even more if we kill innocent people but I mean if you like it. And Dresden how many people died there civilians if you look at. Nagasaki or Hiroshima I mean that is Afghanistan. Well. I shudder to think about you know millions casualties fighting ice itself that it you know that. I think that's scale of the dangers posed by in Korea Japan and Nazi Germany. Brought on odds and brought on all the participants in the war is a restaurant you world historic unbelievable that it really caused. A lot of you know great powers in the world to mr. case. It Natalia misstated the question just that I guess what I meant more was. If in rooting out ices some collateral damage was to occur nowhere near along the lines of her in Japan are Dresden. I mean he is it now where you know if he killed ten people. All of a sudden it is perceived to be as bad as a 100000 or million. Well. It's a weird. Sitting right do these. Most of the United States is being engaged in war all over the Islamic world but not without. Some foundation were drawn to people in and Pakistan. Were helping the saudis sort of pulverized. Yemen and I'm so big habit and that their sisters and Derrick an obsession. With the Islamic world. And really feel aggrieved by. I can get the problem for. You know been not to say that there right or wrong to have the perception that they have but the reality on planners could fit. Many Muslims have that perception. So I think you Wharton consequence of getting united. It states even more deeply involved and as you point out quite right that people wars kill people and not all these people were fighting in the worst. So then if you conceivably have more Muslims dying at American hands. That lends itself to the matter is that you know even in instances like you point out we're certainly trying to kill civilians. But sometimes our product stations that are contrary don't get hurt and it's just the corpse you know being drowned out of the rubble. It gets blasted out and Al-Jazeera so. I think you know before we were to get more deeply involved in any of these conflict we ought to ask ourselves what the American interest is. And how it weighed against. The potential consequences. Diplomatically and otherwise in the article. To us and appreciate your time and now we need to talk to you again Michael knew that Justin Logan director of foreign policy studies at the Cato Institute are ready jaguar opinion bull. Should the United States and ground troops to fight ices boots on the ground split evenly now. At 5050 love to hear from me at T six 187 I would say unequivocally. There's just my opinion nil. Because China I don't know other than occupying the country. What it is that we accomplished there because. It semi coyotes scandal like that for everyone you kill maybe two more rise up. And if you wanna occupy that country you better be ready to Friday constant war. At every border that you have with anybody else and within a country. So this warming because I do not know to use it so when examining Bakken play action between continuing our conversation David about. Boots on the ground to fight ices that quick note about. The Garland Robinette think tank Dave Cohen in for Garland today. And HO did talk about allowing black bear hunting again ya. Have you ever had beer meat are certainly out and what does it taste like it how is. Well AJ again. Naw no no no it was it's seemed to me it was a dark meat a little luck tougher. And probably should have marinated longer but it wasn't. It wasn't it wasn't Gainey tasting. It is induced places like while close to beef. But different it's hard to just. Art what kind of there wasn't in them. At a restaurant some went it was a restaurant. Anyway tomorrow Louisiana federal officials can make the formal announcement that black there is no longer on the threatened species list. Which you hunt bears and Willie G bear army buddies and it's pretty dangerous thing on the ears. Does it won't need a new stadium in relation to the soup normal. And built about an air big thing which you know normally recalls don't. He'd get my attention a lot this is an awful big one early and it's a big one and it. Needs. You know airbag goes off that's not bad enough put too much force but it. Then shoots shrapnel to in some days pounds of metal gal I don't flying through which reasonably good people in the backseat or were our pictures you know and and through house thank you David appreciated sure. Is not icon joints right now senior policy analyst at the foreign policy initiative to mornings there. Three time. Tell me about this Lindsey Graham thinks about 101000 American soldiers put them on the ground and it rocked it helped by eight. Ices. Is there any way he under the imagination is a good idea. Well I think it's worth taking a step back and thinking about art two way we've approached or strategy in Iraq and Syria are constantly year. The administration's strategy has been premised on the idea that we can basically limit to our site. Two. To Iraq and basically use our airstrikes. To. Bomb near to basically take up the bad guys and hopefully displeased. I'm part of that tragic it's also sent that it seeks to train. The Sunni our tribal forces. In order to help them go after crisis. Places like ramadi where. They've basically just lost the city I don't know if it's. But it is to keep problem now is that we haven't really taken steps. To train. The Iraqi Army. Duties to his sides and as a result they've been doing a lot pretty lousy job. At a basically enabled crisis as there. I think it furcal is two really good seat crisis. It's hard to see how about to happen. Unless we make significant. Military commitment. And I think that's what senator Graham. Is getting because right now we are basically I was excited. Crisis is on the advanced. And frankly the Iraqis can do it without costs. That's our goal it's hard to see. On how any governor. Or any other strategy to achieve that. So. I think a lot of people think and as soon as they're sitting in their office cubicle or drive and around and that is too who have would been training. For all the time that we spent in Iraq who are we attempting to train in and dated nonstick or do we train no wrong people. Well I mean it's that just electric history behind that I think at the time. That we put troops from Iraq or the president Hamid decision to withdraw from Iraq 2000 Latin. We had left behind. Fairly stable force. We get left behind. We had to put our soldiers in the position to really. Prevent. The kind of it crisis advances. Are Qaeda actions are consistent form at the time but we certainly had the ability. 2%. Those parts that perhaps it is when we shall rocked the Wii with true. We lost. And the Iraqi Army. Outlet really in a position. To trade its options are trained to really. Grow into the force that would be needed and to prevent. Further attacks. So in the end you know we're gonna need two doses courses need to be trained. I think that's really the we do you worked on. Air Reyes during your large number of Iraqi Security Forces occupying Romani and a most troops flew ahead after ices fighters. Began their assault on the city and and it's not funny but I guess. Is that because there's strength in numbers and there aren't adequate numbers to embolden the troops stay or is it because they don't really believe in what they're doing one. In the end zone a mask ends of the don't. I don't get buying it either they're not they don't feel safe uses have enough people and they feel overrun. Earlier going to be overrun or they don't believe. In defending. Ramadi DD NA deal which it is or am am and I think America. The feeling. And I hear your point I think there are two basic factors number one is that I sensed as a group is determined. They believe and what they're doing. So to speak and they are determined which despite there prepared to take casualties. They're prepared to do what it takes. By contrast the Iraqi Army. Artistry our forces in particular are. And are really rampant with corruption. Either poorly trained. EU and they don't really they're not invested in the I I think many of them really don't believe that they have the ability to do it. And they don't really and there are also torn by their own sectarian tensions. Within the country to they have a lot of the play. And they're fighting each other they have ice has to worry about and I'm not sure they aren't even believe that. We the United States are invested in the side such that the train them so that they can really do what it takes I think it's really a combination of factors here. And and isolate any one parried well I think that's overall pick. So we've chosen to train the Sheehan is there rightness Sunni aren't binding in so. In a correct me if I'm wrong so and then in addition to fighting ices would that have. Some kind of tribal rivalry York dispute gone between Sunni and Shia and it would seem like we we know refine and anchor we've tightened. The Sunni as we take that she are we fighting ices are refining those. Well with the department actually been focusing our efforts on the Sunnis Sunni this the musician. Provide their own problem because. Much of them are so closely linked to Iran's. And one of the things that we are trying to do or at least we ought to be doing. Is to prevent. He Iran from getting a foothold in Iraq has a paternity deal I mean torture period. Given the number ability amount of military support but they have among Shia tribal malicious. They iridium world dominated country. And that. And we were to basically. Armed that. Power that we be replacing crisis with Iran which would it really. Be a terrible pretty huge improvement I'm from your teacher perspective. Two in that sense we're really that's that's really where would be open. Give a couple more minutes. Char because I'd like to ask what would boots on the ground accomplish how many ground soldiers would you need and how long would they be there. Of the economy gas senior policy analyst at foreign policy initiative and if Yemeni questions or comments. 260187. You can text them to 87870. Tommy Tucker back in a flash and other W. 947 Tommy Tucker talking to use of B Khan senior policy in. I analysts that the foreign policy initiatives senator Lindsey Graham saying we need about 101000. Boots on the ground in Iraq to a tee and ices under control. I answered it started there's their do do do you ever wipe out ice is there isn't like we have a conversation about it coyote problem here he killed tuning had eight. Brent over certainly not a Dwight that I sit in the near term this is going to be. A years long term struggle. And when you look at what we're doing now I mean it's and our current operation is pretty limited scope size because we're focusing on Iraq. And I think any strategic. To to really wages strategic defeat. I says you really also have to focus. From Syria which is where they're really are based parent control of third Syria. And right now where our operations that are. Fairly limited over the last few days at one. We know we just answered special operations forces. To take out one of their leaders who has basically. It's widely considered the she. I just I basically administration as part of technologists that for now you know we're going to be focusing Iraq at a certain point. We're topic I would Syria how we're gonna do that we're we're gonna do that unimaginable take place. It's unlikely we'll take place. During the copper paper Obama presidency. But that's yet to profit acknowledged I think correctly. This campaign is gonna go into the next presidency. We really have no idea. That's part and. So. If we put 101000. Boots on the ground or soldiers IDs for his boots because Munis American soldiers were talking about and and human beings but. I mean we're honey design on 101000 what are living in a deal and honey design wanted to take them home a Bram. Well beaten a number 101000 of course there are many numbers that are being tossed around them and and it has to be this specific number certainly ethnic kept out and actually considered. Pretty minimal. Compared. Two other of people are advocating ethnic attacks on the low point. But I think realistically were not ordered to. Part two or occupied Syria report well the camped in the return to the relevant questions for now. Is really what can we be today but at least. Advance the cost at least advance their seat and get ourselves on the path to victory. As I said earlier I think we really those forces. Should be used. Not simply Katrina and obviously imperative. I think we already talked to they're gonna need to really sit stagnant in the field after you and bad that. Which occurred units. I have to put that in the field that they can be spotters. Park air strikes so packed up what our plans are popping price target they actually have very precise scored its. About you know where the bad guys are. Civilians in the area. And things like that so. It would require. A certain amount of combat role at the United States upon initiation has not been prepared. To take to date sites because. Really right now isn't the kind of public support. For another war in the area that would. That would result in US casualties. Of the servers they're responding to the political dynamics there. In the long term it's very hard to see. Part approach that basically the US troops at a distance. It's hard to see how she approached. Yeah I was wondering about the political context of that because I can't imagine. Any presidential nominee running on a platform of where there were guns and soldiers and were rock. And perhaps Syria and clear out vices I can't imagine it happening politically. Yeah I agree. Of course been apparent change. You know it's the port convention as a priority you're out. I think are even when crisis was first. Out their first emerged. Last spring and summer. Refer to note support for anti US right now we have a special operations forces. The training capacity but there was tremendous support even something like rap. The the that changed overnight well and I just began heading. Americans and recording it for the bureaucracy. I think I'm really. Shocked and jolted The English Patient action. And and closet really take steps that it just a few months earlier they were ever dreamed of doing. What I skier. It's crisis in the the coming months and years. Will attempt to actual test again. Something even more spectacular we know that they've been attempting to access inspired groups. And the United States has been attempting to argument to attack the US homeland. Rested people. Attempted with tacit American arrests are arrested America. Spotted or been actually tax the capital. US military bases. And I'm worried that it's only a matter of time. For you would not be able to stop them they'll succeed. And that unfortunately I'd stop providing. The jolt or some kind of massive terrorist attack our homeland. Well lead. That would lead them to you that lead or greater our corporate campaign. And so we hope it wouldn't. It comes to about. But in the near term I grab a seat. I don't see it happening I don't I don't seem meter and admitted that he would practice coming out of that situation it suit which is why I think this. War is going to wage on for many years. Thank you sir appreciate your time though we get to spends more time with the use of econ senior policy analyst at the foreign policy initiative. Governor Idec under the W. Tommy Tucker great to be back Dave Cohen coming up next in for Garland Robinette with a in using think tank about Ayers and have you ever eat them there and she did you hunt one because it thing about taking them off the endangered species list shall also talk about. The city trying to get another Super Bowl and a lot more hours keep it tuned here for that thanks Sheldon. Jordan David Blake Diane Newman and you for listening and we will talk TF. Right nearly marveling at 6 o'clock.