WWL>Topics>>Think Tank 1010am, Tracking Cell Phone Calls

Think Tank 1010am, Tracking Cell Phone Calls

Feb 24, 2016|

If U.S. Marshals secretly tracked thousands of our phone calls, why do we trust them to use the key to Apple’s encrypted phone?  According to newly disclosed records, the Marshalls Service confirmed that it uses cellphone surveillance tools known as “stingrays” to hunt nearly 6,000 suspects throughout the United States.  The confirmation was made inadvertently to USA Today, when the federal agency tried to keep their tracking history secret by rejecting a Freedom of Information Act request for a copy of its log of cases where agents use stingrays.  The feds response to that request included an almost totally censored spreadsheet that listed its surveillance cases – stripped out line by line.  So, if U.S. Marshalls already track cell phone calls, does this change your opinion about the Apple iPhone controversy?  Would you give the U.S. government the back door key to your cellphone, in the name of national security? This hours guest: Brad Heath - Investigative Reporter for USA Today, wrote article Wes Withrow - IT Security Expert with TraceSecurity based out of Baton Rouge (IT Governance Risk & Compliance expert)

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Automatically Generated Transcript (may not be 100% accurate)

Why all. If you look at the Venice on android now look toward go from. Could be very good chance. A bingo nominated for the UGU preview and on the first one to admit Ogg said from the get go ain't gonna happen couldn't happen. No way he. So far have been proven wrong across the board Bergen talked to a true political experts. Try to figure about anything about the coming viewed true Donald Trump and Newt view the brood we're gonna talk about who of course. Without dissent how we use and couldn't. Means company. The people that handle the money bills that are here and I've tried to him. Depth and power billion dollar thirty and he did that we've got to get finished by June 30 ended the fiscal year. House ways and means committees in more than two dozen tax bills. Turned spoils. And the measures approved would breeze taxes and sales tax cigarettes are called telephoned. Mean in the minimum in the of that thing. End Lebanon aid to a mini tax for x.s specially in the corporate world. Soldier and we'll talk to a columnist about that in some of the public marched on. Try to better understand the good the bad and the ugly of the oval thing. It's our certain things caught my area RI and great article well written article. Another blow yours today euros from Marshall secretly tracked 6000. Phone call it's. And there are no. I've been listening number of days off. The debate over outpolled in the MP a warning to get in through there encrypted the bodies in the pros and cons. Border look at it is secretly tracked 6000 tone phones to it to me the keys secretly. Regardless what the reason is. And when you superimpose. Most aboard that scene and bread in the comments sections. In this conservative state. Isn't feeling yeah I'll mole for the government and that's what did take some all of form up both leave in the government all backed him. But in this stated views saying would you trust the edge to two. Can almost guarantee the end should do want her to be into that subject is O. We've we have it's scenes. No privacy. Or no problem with the risking. Our future of Reno and privacy in this country. Burly of and we don't we don't trust anything they do. So my idea and all of this go to breed bullets to go to people who do the home duo goad people that goal a whole lot more than you and me. Bread he'd would you resorted to digging. The altar of the ego article or just told you about it won't people predator and go to your busy thank you so much for the top. Thought my pleasure having to be here. All right tell me about a yard tracking in 26000. Cell phones in if you wouldn't mind. In the hidden in particular would go and shows in the payout from archer a new board members and explained that sting ray it's. Sure but the way your cellphone works is by communicating back and forth with cell towers operated by the Telecom companies right. And it being raised the device that the police and why in there people have been used by the military and intelligence agencies overseas. It basically pretends to be a cellphone towers that would make go into your neighborhood with one of these. Your phone will think it's the cellphone tower and will connect with it. And by moving the device to round they can and trying delayed the location. Any particular phone. And they can do with pretty good accurate and we've seen cases where local police you know have been able to track phone to a particular rumor that particular house. Com. A and they do that just buy it by following the signals at one of what the party of the way is to operate its cause. The biggest objections from the expert privacy advocates community. Is that the devices. Also trickled all the other zones in the area into connecting with it at that they were held hours. They might be looking for my son but if you happen to be near me your phone is gonna connect to the day rate to and it's gonna start gathering information about you would well. And and help me of deuces and eggs and race. Almost all the luck print when we talk about the news is through their set point when it comes to the debate noble prizes to the privacy and terrorism. I'm going to buy it against terrorism beat cause. I don't have anything to hide. Let's just be does that rate say the terrorists subject goes to very convenient store at three times. Two of them 23 time U who happened to be there at same time. And the appeared goes. Culturally and maybe we'll look at what he's doing. In borders is is port though weather's something. In his. Tax filed Marie didn't pay some taxes. They go to you're in the NC and we would think with your bone user all in all in all not at all there's. OK they are approved for use a program Burgundy do you have to be a deep coal. To try to no big dip his guy in all option terrorism. Mum porn is even if you quote. Didn't do anything wrong. If the FBI is sees its deep connection that may help. In the fight couldn't you become inadvertently in basle. I I don't know and I think the reason it is the most interesting thing to me about these is that they have been so secret for so law. And it's. Decent deal on a lot of information out there about how the government uses these devices you know do they use that to intercept the content of communications. This. Suggested that at least some of these devices are capable of doing that those that the government shouldn't without a wiretap order. But all so you know what kind of investigations do you use the man the Marshals Service. Which. Sort of inadvertently told us state used 16000 times. Won't say what kinds of cases but they don't generally do terrorism investigations. We've seen old drips and drabs from local police departments that have these things that you see drug investigation that you see. Here yet they'll use them to fine kidnapped kids that does happen. But in Baltimore you know we saw the local police using them to define self that were stolen out of the back of somebody's car. Say hey I mean it's really. All over the map and it's interesting that the police have been using he's. In 2007 in 2008 maybe even before it and and it's only now that they have really. If paid any kind of serious legal challenge where court might even be asked to decide. What it is circumstances where it is appropriate. Brett don't go wait ten more minutes you heard time. For those listening. We can't give too and everything in the org group did you want to read a brief article. Good bread she viewers surveyed today US marshals secretly tracked 6000. Cellphones. Come right back what do you think. Are you willing to give blood random. Voyage you don't really know why it's being given a prop how large or how long or how to play that you. Or do you just say when we come terrorism in the tickled pretty and they want. To protect me. Do you trust. They can and would do. Tuesday at 01. Need somebody dubbed via armored thing jitterbug. Excellent article you're yesterday today. Written by a bread heed the title is yours marshaled sic league tract 6000. Cell phone calls. And they basically. Have told viewers say today. Where the good news tell anything about it we're gonna protect what we're doing. Red. When you look to it's your personal opinion. Is this part of law. We've got to get above some privacy. I mean freedom and help. I'd give primacy. In order to maintain security. Gotta give up some of our freedom in order to maintain. Security. Or is says staying the great thing where they'd they'd pick up suspect's cell phones but the people round of just the smaller in that paid that shouldn't concern as well. I don't think that's the easy question to answer in part because nobody had. Any idea. Why you know how all that means they're used and for what purposes and and that's been true to the extent they you know win. With the police use one of these to find somebody and sees it evidence to the crime from them yet that. That is not communicated to the suspect to the lawyer a lot of jurisdictions it was never communicated to the judge. So there was no opportunity for a court to try to find out OK you know is. Is that an intrusion into privacy at all there is it is view in the government. It says what this really isn't a threat to privacy because it is that we knew uses self you're voluntarily. Sharing all that signaling information with you Telecom. It's not you know it's not. Pride that it's going out of the airwaves for anybody who happens to picking up. And there at account argued that that that says well. Cell phones are more land. Tracking devices that we have all agreed to carry around because they let us go on FaceBook any time we want. And nobody has really be resolved. That question yet and the public haven't had much of an opportunity to resolve it because it's been happening in secret. Could you deal drugs and he slowly boiling water. But the John Edwards realized were boiling it's too late to do much about it. The whole idea was to Oakland is really interesting to me because if you attended twenty years ago that the government gonna put it tracking device and everybody. Nobody would believe you. Right that would have been science fiction that now we all carry tracking devices all the time and we do it because they are so super convenient like you don't have to implant them we just. In our pocket wet field we put in a pocket we put the damn. It and that raises a lot of privacy implications that are theory. Different. From the way the law has conceived of privacy up to this point right it beat that right up till now. You know it's big into the fourth commandment that thing called the third party doctrine that is if you share information with some video it's not pride. And lawyers and courts up to the Supreme Court right thinker re thinking Matt does that make it. Just because that is how ubiquitous. Cell technology has become. Well let's say. From what we can see it it is legal. But when you re deported Bjork coral we're very busy. These marshals. Or not going to reveal any of the evidence that they have. I know for sure very in the legal industry dues rule. Of the Brady group that it's pulled exculpatory. Evidence. That's to be turned over to do is to the dependent. And it's violated almost in the league rule. I. Get past that point where what they have is required. To be group the. I don't know and they want today evident that the response from the Marshal service has been interesting because they they have now in the process of trying to keep it secret. Confirmed for the first time that they use these devices that use them politically. But didn't do it you know if you go ask questions. They won't confirm on the record that they use one of these days they aren't dole taking the position that he is secret. Which is sort of there is an interesting wrinkle to all of that there aren't that the Brady rule was one thing and I IDK. You know it that's the type argument because that they'll publication did self exculpatory it's seldom favorable to the defendant. Bury them court that would today. You know if it's evident that airs on the lawful that the search. That it should be disclosed at I think that would be a stronger argument for why should have been turned up at the girl to a state like Maryland to. In which you know the police conduct electronic surveillance during decades. That happened to be revealed to the defended just as a matter of course without his had to ask for. And the interesting thing about the marshalls is a lot of what they do. Are are these pursuit fugitives wanted by state and local authorities say these are not. Not cases that are gonna be in federal court this is going to be like a state of Maryland verses jobs that prosecution. We shall win Mac guy comes to court it'll be that Maryland prosecutors have the obligation to disclose. And what we've heard from some prosecutors is they don't even know what the police so they can't disclose what they don't know. One final question interview with her. Dorm rooms strong pull you understand. The apple controversy encrypted bones you have any thoughts at. I think that there really interest the case and I don't know. I have no idea how it's going to come now by. I've admitted that activating the school issue of whether the FBI and the Justice Department. Compel apple to create this new software. An and it. Political goal dynamic that that are really fascinating too because a lot of people have been talking about that it is. It is dumping it should be resolved by congress congress should draw that line and instead it it looks like it's going to be result in the first instance by a magistrate judge. He would Riverside California. Barbara that he rate article keyboard re mortgage your writing Joe's USA today dot com. Brad thing to do the time really do appreciated have a good day. You. All right covered up sexual talk to his security expert here in baton huge wars with row say what his thoughts questions comments to procedural bluntly it's happening. This is all about I'll do you trust the government. When it comes to yours security. And if you can trust them over taxes. How can you trust them. When they look at your pride in light. 200187. It would think about something good to admittedly. Fascinates. Me. I think all over the country there are down twelve pro collects. And growing distrust. Of government. Growing anger and government. But when it comes to. The government. Short to Russia's lead tracking arts. Over the cover of their they're looking port terrorists. Announcing to have a problem buys it in phase two we'd like to tax you we certain. Wouldn't trust you go along with the ya gonna do what you say you doom. Because you got to try weren't good track record all on word in on its worthy. Well when it comes to terrorism in the tracking. We've seen that just say okay no problem I'm with the him. The latency. Article yours say today. USA today got hold of votes something called sting race. More troops are uses these devices. Trying to. Keep track of whoever they playing may do be doing the period thing. End because endures today it's. According doing this to what are the roads and what are they doing that's. So we went to the other girls marshals and they basically god back. Freedom of information. Forced information. Almost totally broad acted but it did show over 7000. Cell phone. Deborah being tracked in this country. Not necessarily. Third target. Because it's this thing ready. Technology. Tracks people that are nearby all truth and insults up in the improvement on the and but you know we as. Apple. But the problem of threads demanding. Back door and to do here encrypted phones. Now given that and try acting without really knowing why or where Earl who. And October better go to work with the rule Ginn. And IG's security expert and a root. These retreats security. Oh boy it's Balkans shows always appreciate your expertise. Our earlier. If you don't mind explain to eroding and staying race what what do is that Brooks is capability. Probe and how they use. So. The student or day to stories that are used are actually for capturing information about shell. It was like simulating yourself on power that. Actually being that the fight it should in between yourself term. And the power the real carrier connecting to X ray devices the actually air electronic devices are at the UK. Bet law enforcement and name he used to interceptors. Shell on that for example. What they do that they actually and a strong signal in the real salt and now it connects to your child firm. They're muted actually rebuilt kind of unique device at the premiere. You get it for yourself on number tell ya call kind of incoming or outgoing. Give you an idea of which are firm number dial the date time duration of the call. So here is speculative than it is straight large. Intercepting device. OK so we use this secret. Technology. Unavailable to the rest of the world. Can no one on the Darknet that can go one on war. By and his equipment access this school a. Can access the equipment buried. And me yet it's designed to install a long forced errors. There are ways the picture and on the part of the fight. So your somebody that had nefarious reasons. Either didn't like Q. Looking for something to to get that they could use against you maybe. Surreptitiously. And without revealing New York. Out of file. Pope from potential robbers. Politicians trying to get information. On the politician. Is some of the bodies that could be used for quote non government reasons. Absolutely. And they need these parts and devices and again. Gathered they beat their people driving around your name or right now who have financially but are these devices and you do the analytics. Change you can now. But if you were big picture hands on some of these devices appear well could. Getting it would take a lot of technical acumen. And you have to be really really interested. In whatever target you were chasing too want to buy I want you to buy. Instances. You look at their pretty extensive. Yes. I mean you know one of like. So in ER couldn't get here right wondered individual one because they didn't and number there have been ball purchases. Long force Beijing but I think one local law enforcement. Organization had spent roughly about. 380000. Dollars over the course of the year on their device that they're probably a handful devices there. There aren't our cover Ryan Garko stable where this would tomorrow. For security gates says about July and t.'s security expert. When you hear all of ups. And India your one of those that says you don't trust the government I it's him and do you trust them with your pride that in provision. When they tell you don't Lori gorgeous score adapted the best and I didn't use more information. 2001. Subbing in how does that work how you did not trust them to act Hugh. We're dude dude for us then to take two were improvement from when true knowing about it. Governor Abdel common bright. Are walking back were did you book review its aid to the investigation. In the euros marshaled secretly. Scooped up. Information. All dogs and targets. Aboard USA today. Found in the modicum. Of yours marshals reluctantly turned over. Is they had been scooping up the information and at least 6000. Cell phones and they want. Over something colts being raised. Stood caves size the bodies. In the location of his cellphone that look at that. Use is. Like being within your your words of cell tower only they'd they take that. The income signal wing from the so are they act like a celled. End. If you happen nearby beach near abroad. It'll take all the information are prone to. And to me it's it's kind of like apple and the encryption debate. More and more he would scenes. Perhaps I'm wrong compute think and can call 262187. It seems like we're making a fraud in the boiling water decisions. And and that is no real decision. Not really thinking about it. We're worse Little League giving opera privacy or freedom. To a government that would say we don't trust at least in in particular. In red states. And if you were allowing them. Very noticeably. To collect. Very intimate information. On laws without her knowledge or. A promotion. And Boris withdrew wouldn't be person that looks its purity over time because that's what he's done. He is an idea expert with true security days that about rouge. Works and what your personal. We all be protected against terrorism. Against crow Reynolds. But isn't line and be draw honored to will adjusts have to sit here and say okay. I'd trust you moved the government. Or at the point now where word. Pretty much thing we're going to have to trust the guys a lot of you know give you or examples about. I first started the war and kind of national security. In the national security state tech talk talk to a gentlemen who were frail large defense contractor. Look at yeah started to learn about some of the technology were going to be used words that were here now and look mean since the days are Arturo. And interactive kind of wore it for a moment. As I candidate continue to have more moral questions cheetah that whenever we would try to edit yeah. Yet he corrected date and our PR group or the amount of the nation the people out there that we make publicly available ourselves. And our government can get promised then stroke happy aren't. So one final accord in that true wouldn't we say. And trusts the government the respond shouldn't be that matter. They're gonna go through and brilliant. In Europe and it's something that they bullet that is very important. And or he really healed visible on the cool. It just might beat the in that say the most secret surveillance. Organization. On do you know on its control. That does multiple billion dollar facility in Ito. It's rock and the counted subprime emails ago so called gold gold searchers. Our personal. Group marking its for a life. Rotary bookstore purchases. If it's something called world where information word. It doesn't matter we don't try out some. They don't art for its is that wrong. I. Well it's always material pleasure I think. Call you back a legally blonde continued its debate over apple in the encrypted loans. All of our budget talk India have a great day but now we're gonna go work from right. All right our double dubbed don't try to drag bar in new bowl. You have yours more troops in league track that thousands. That users' cell phones. Should trust them to use the key need to apple to encrypted and 62%. Of you say absolutely not. From the Kabul Beck's word so we'd talked to today I'm thinking it through is I'm with you. Totally with I'm not 62%. Among a 100%. But the answer to me and you know who got rim that 62 birds and it doesn't matter. Our privacy is gone and could put up mud we can do about it. Governor bill big celebrity immortal pod agree apparent.