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Think Tank 1110am TOPS

Jun 14, 2016|

Are we producing too many college graduates?  Is TOPS actually hurting students? Demand for workers with a college degree is declining.  Damned if we do, damned if we don’t? This hours guest: Robert 'Bob' Hebert - Economist, RFH Consulting. Wrote the op/ed piece in The Advocate about whether or not TOPS is paying off Robert Chalfant - visiting college lecturer, Director of the William and Rita Fitzgerald Institute for Entrepreneurial Studies, University of Akron, College of Business Administration

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Automatically Generated Transcript (may not be 100% accurate)

A ball we're doomed fascinated. By. We did it constantly cutting higher education. Probably for as long as I've been here that it's always been the case. I think they've had eight cuts in the most recent years more to war. Then in need of a contiguous that ms. Tzipi. Taxes Arkansas. Probably throwing Alabama and Georgia and there are hopes that. So let's see headlines like troops are remembered doing story and more from the group while last night Hedlund says. L issues 85. Million dollar lazy river leisure project rolled shall all on. Despite the school's about to blow which. I remember doing the story on the line. And our throw on that and what I did a good number of calls from parents it's talking about. That's odd coming from the state budget. This school it's not suffering from that. We're doing it it's very special student fee assessment. And we agreed prayed for not forget the barbs and a lot of money thing clues to a hundred dollars maybe a little bit ago. And you lose it remarks specifically point that project. So even so worn did that money input and so on and so it couldn't. But I did it ask you a couple of course. I did straight into the legislature. Decided they wanted to tax Louisiana taxpayers. And ordered paved for an 85 million dollar laser rumored do you think would. And I didn't get too many people that said of quarks. And then the second question. What would you be more inclined to get. 85 million dollars to key. Our track Ph.D.s. And Alicia because we're losing point of view from everything breed. Or the leagues he Bremer. Wouldn't get too many people say they wouldn't trotted track to the streets. So and perhaps later one side we will continue to lead car pirate patient. Apparently closing in school drew brown arrived in. So I'm always nibbling new the edges some of the hole and should try and give veterans here. Over the of Hillary in pursuing. Leonard to be who showed speak of would say their resume more limited to web site. Advocate. Bonn today. And he knows. Or Robert Bob Hebert. Economists would Aurora at age consulting in the head and does not use. Newspaper that is a benevolent sort of levers. It columnists. His top program actually hurting students. And the birds until the Georgian blogger and roots of our legislature it's unclear whether it's members free information. Or preferred to act solely own emotion and grouping drew Jones talked about it in the thing track. Tell you what I think we did man glad it's at blogger Berlin and then we get the experts and trying to understand that prone and injury he shouldn't point of view. And mr. Edgar had viewed things in the slugger of them is not where. Large enough to have with the Robert thank you book called Richard Burton. It. Took me about in particulars. Some things. You fellow with the Bureau of Labor Statistics from problem I was little Chabraja. That the project's indicated the demand for workers holding a college degree. There's actually bend the clock and. That's right I came across this. That these statistics that indicated that. This census the problem before we get them labor diploma which is what the data with. But the senate has appointments as a 47%. Of workers possess a college degree. But Kabila has the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Estimates that only 20% of the jobs actually require a college degree. So I thought that that discrepancy was rather significant. And I began to wonder whether that was a tram that was likely to persist into the. Future. So I begin to look at well how many jobs a year doesn't US economy produce. And of those jobs if the senses the public is correct that only 27% of them acquire a college degree. When we look at that number against the number of college degrees and returning out of the year you know what what are the statistic show. And they show forcible. That if you indicated just a moment ago that demand force students with college degree those guys and jobs or decline. In the US. The BLS says that the US economy created 2.4 five million jobs. In 2015. Of course we don't pay for the 2016. But they the but at the same time the US colleges and universities are expected to pop out this year two point 75 million. Bachelor's and associate degree. This year they're the Padilla list did not say. Those 2.4 five million jobs they did not distinguish which ones were. Or which jobs require a bachelor's degrees and associate degrees but just talk about college degrees. Well OK if we look at the numbers that. If you look at two point 75 students with degrees in entering the job market 2.4. Five million jobs being created. You see an immediate 300 thousands surplus. Palestinians. Who have degrees. But I'm good I'm gonna have difficulty finding jobs and they can of course put some people object to an already in there. But let's leave that aside for the moment. Now here's the other kicker. Well hold on hold that took second ago we re gonna take a break Bobo for a doomed. It was even though you've given its so far. I am a parent and I think most parents. Paying a fortune for colored green here this. Or pretty stunned. A chance to talk to in the state legislators and give them a couple of these numbers and if so. Well what's respondents. Come on ride back collapse would question and more or anything Jersey during 187. Returned an AMBER Alert ever road written to be Albert know a thing think about a week ago in so a prominent columnist economist with or after eight consulting. A pro bowler per year. In pursuing. And we got a hold Robert. Bob Edgar in the joint news if you lose the media. First part of that show he poured in doubt the media Bureau of Labor Statistics something. Euros economies cruising 2.4 five million jaw and in 2015. College junior bursts in the news or pumping out two point 75. Million. Bachelor's degree of soups agrees 2015. Succeeding so obviously yeah. Not his many jobs created as we have people coming out of college of Bob would do you all over again so confused when join up numbers. Specially when here confederate government. If you throw him the number of people leaving the workforce would that skew the numbers were looking out there. No that's in separate issue what we're looking at here is simply. The number of jobs created and the number of -- arms excuse me the number of job holders. That are available with a college degree. Now we actually we need to take that one step further because. If that be jealous is correct that only 27%. Of the jobs. That with our Brooke are college degree can take 27%. Of that 2.4 feet five million dollar changed jobs created. And try to match that. Against the two point 75 million degree holders and then the discrepancy gets huge we're talking about. Two point 75 million students with a degree in hand competing for roughly 662000. Jobs. During the year. So what's gonna happen. Either these people will not be able to find a job. And then they might ultimately leave the workforce it but because these young people. The first degree intentional it's absolutely got to try and try again. But what came what they may well do as pollution lower skilled workers out of the job market altogether. And so but also that those are the types of people who will eventually hooked an audience and say we'll have tried and I can't find the job so just go on the dole. Yeah I cannot tell you hundred parents torque to. Children graduated from good to colleges would would seem to be real usable. Degrees. And at least the first year or two and one Portland three years. The kids come back home and give to those tortured talking about. Of the Gurode further DelHomme though the labor market. The the a lower skilled lower. Salaries. Joes to get the work experience. And some god and they get a job and what are they have the green in more troops news. But once again kicked O labor market may not become and active. Right you know we're reading about that old time it's anecdotal evidence that when you see that over and over again and start worrying about. The trend and this is why I raised the issue really felt these students because if we're a forward doing is creating this big pool. A work of the degree holders potential workers we're not going to be able to find a job then we're creating some real problems of society. If you will one point in the letter use Saturday. Why is this all the groups in you've got to 22 points that surprised me talk about those of you. Punch and when you say it was. Reduce radios are insured members who little return on investment is Borland. No wounds ruined studies cited in the guardian. Yeah you know society has never really tries to answer the question what is a college degree what what's the product that we would deliver. Some would say it's in the investments and investment in the student's future. It's an investment society's future because they'll benefit from having better educated students. But you know nine that they are also some consumption aspects to going to college you know their football games of the France or article it is. There all the amenities in the student union and they are making France and so forth and so. So that there were the answer that question in my opinion is it's a complicated product when you talk about a college degree. The good part of it may be the biggest sport it is an investment goods. But another point that is that consumption. Now when you ask people what are you willing to pay for. I think more people willing to let their taxes need to support investment aspects because that's where the benefits spill over to society as a whole. You know what people would present I think taxpayers would present. The fact that they're paying full opportunity importance in sprint football games and all of the things. That. Students. Quote unquote consume. When they go to college but also things that directly benefit the individual and I would you should be paid for by the individual. A bit. Or are you saying that taxpayers paid for the fraternity deportees and that kind of thing. There are no not directly says it's what would taxpayers paid for as a whole experience. The college experience and what I am saying is that there are some benefits you you have to just aggregate it benefits. Some go to the student only. So I'm two students in a society. And so on go primarily to society. But we never tried to dis aggregate and get that when we asked the question who should pay for college education. You know most most notorious tuition but we have a certain political movement to make college free. Well we can make college free you know obviously somebody painfully. And so that it is it's funded entirely. The public expenditures. To me that would be the wrong direction to go. Talk about the U guardian. They're sure. The garden is say left leaning British newspaper. The it's fairly well respected in the in journalism world. They did studies. And again I presume these days in England. But you know various instances. Similar crossed across the globe. The guardian found that after two years 45%. Of university students. Didn't show any significant improvement in cognitive skills. Now I just have to take it that's it's I don't know on the edge of the conference's schedules and what did he. But that's rather alone is almost half of the stations. Let him go and graduated. Haven't shown any improvement in their content to steal I would say as an investment in these students. That we didn't have them return. There's another study that found that the full he has. 36% of students and improve their ability to think or analyze problems. And now we're looking at the output OK and was saying. The money is going in terms that's an input in the educational process. In order to really determine that money is being well spent a what kind of return it for you to look at you know put. And that's studies show that output is not looking too good at least for a like substance. Final course import we lose Giroux bureau and you're not pose to our. You're doing grid to return to the original vision give Gibson there would from the. OK well let me just say that. While much talent comes across as president of orphanage consultant I'm maritime university professor. I got my Ph.D. from the election in 97 and I taught in South Carolina and Alabama. Before returning to Tunisia. Simon retired academics and I'm certainly the lightning incident education what. It is that we can do it. And society. But what has happened in my view and again I did not follow this real close as a resident losing them but what I can tell that particular family. So what does this program. To serve underprivileged students who were deserving. Meaning that they have the capacity to complete a palace degree program. An overtime. What is happening is that the legislature. Has turned it into an entitlement programs for the middle class and Andy and and don't do fairly little to do. But actually extending it to just about everybody. And I just don't think that that's sustainable which can keep doing. We keep popping out more students would keep having two formidable students and the status limited resources. That's what I meant by getting back to the regional his suit. To base it on merit the state senate capable of getting through college. Those are the ones who one supports and particularly those that it definitely does some just. You should bring some thoughts and I have. A bit and drug. I think Greg letter. And the world and some don't think can someone for calling and thank you. Aren't sure whether it Maghreb to be a top trio of them watching them president Mahmoud and big. I think you're still talking about Orlando and what their funding out about via. Terrorists while government calling could kill blows people in oral and say well there's some we're gonna get more on that story. Zone maps and throw more liberal listeners my roots he graduated. In May. The bed and major in finance and Oleg and we're jaw and he was the top round. I don't think that's actually story on god to. I daughter a sophomore in college and I talk to lose so many parents opted graduating that berries and restore its. Org got through to looking to an economist. Bruins whose own company should be. University professor broad ego literature of the advocate. Questioning. Tarps that some subsidized. Education system. Here in that state. That's gotten very big in the legislature. Is struggling to blow finances even way stolen known how much money put into it. And when you look at all of that and its enrollment. You you you Google. Only producing too many college graduates. It's your whole bunch of PD have studies in. Everything feels that suggests that we. Sort of built orange then didn't suit always rule akin to a nuclear expert. And we have Robert Chopra. Visiting college lecture. Institute for entrepreneurial studies university of Aaron and Robert Bork and sure appreciative to them. Thank you darling I appreciate the invitation. So always is is this a some big of concern the Brady who talk shows boy out of proportion or is that a pop up. See the problem graduating too many graduates or the problem of the university's. Facing a lot of new competition. There are involved but in particular or weak currents. Paying for very each business degrees dead. Just don't have too many jobs would inform. Oh this is the perfect storm. The parent. Crazy. Or child was five it'll. And tell your kids go to college get a good job go to college get a good job so that it's great to children have grown up in oh. That's why I go to colleges to get a job. Now the active divisions will use it and yet we believe we have your children here pardon me. We had children here Bernie teach them how to think critically. And analyze that with a world. But the fact is that most regret it universities have some sort of technical skill. Whether it's a child or dietetic certain nursing or engineering and they have the skill. What we what are trying to teach them now is. Beat that that they employers understand use and they paid. Probably greedy you know leaders steal whatever it is. What we want to know is do you play well children. I and so we're working on teamwork and that's what the employers look more they wanted no. And you work in a team and a lot of lot of back remembers. Don't like doing that because the students don't like doing it. The learning things that maybe the right thing. City where we have scuba as a bureau vote labor's statistics. Serves you'd approach I looked at drug couple of their studies are in and kind of put the figures together. Comes on to protect three point 6% graduates 125. Or on their underemployed. And or nimble and and the bill that says it's gonna get worse. I want to come back to the cognitive skills are juicy or being taught. We're journalists who do reports when you see. Of expensive degrees not finding jobs. For that debris is that correct. I'm afraid that because the data is there I can't disagree with. I don't like the fact that it's that it's happening. And I am trying to understand. Why it. And I look at. To the colleges there are some this responsibility. In the past their business model has been based on scarcity. Yes we have this in the classrooms. We have as many professors. And we have this much knowledge in the locked up in our library. But now that the smallest change. All right hold 0003. Grow old that dog got a good record brig won't come right back to the point you bring him. Or blue thinking about duke college degree is the liberal blog parents and many drunk students from paying for. We're talking to oil and Barbara channel five and visiting college lecture. Our institute for entrepreneurial. Studies university. Of on Robert RD admitted code in ruptured when you were getting bird talk about something very important week. Well there are other requests in the on the table at universities and person responsible and who was responsible. And and certainly the universities didn't feel any worries about the price because you're there they're bargains where and and the price was and constraints. Finance and was always available and when I graduated from college. I took out student loan. But I was able it within like three or four years. So. But now because the prices and constraint student loans have gotten. Really high. And hand to make matters even worse as the legislatures that so have created the peace system. That. Gives. Money to the students and start accruing interest from the days of money as well and then the students and to discharge that debt in bankruptcy. Yet it's classified as level as debt to the error. You can discharges debt you have to pay it no matter what else legal. And the interest rates are approaching 810%. At a time when the Fed Funds rate it. It and did bowl oh it is we grow so it is batters than the price of the loans are high. Maybe legislators are encouraging it happened by allowing these these. Student loan companies to loan them money and making sure they always get paid. So it's not a so the full university they were just partisan and constraint because. It's. What was perceived as low cost money and funding. The ability for everybody to go to college. It. Very word coming your way of Sanaa on. We're looking for education statistics that I could fund was the national center on education statistics but it they're the most threes from was 20112. Well. They showed. One point seven million students got a bachelor's degree 700000. Plus scope of master's degree. 170000. Plugged compute should review for a total of two point seven billion plots. And how is it the nine point 6%. More. Then the bigger global labor statistic. Predicted we needed for that year and again that was. Four years ago. Had hasn't improved in the in the figures are about starved is this kind of thing sustainable. I. That really use a provocative question and and I pirate those numbers. My concern as well nobody Sony's status. I teach the entrepreneurship program at university. And to me a problem like this becomes an opportunity now we're the job and comfort and every politician. You hear what it would media. Talk about job and that's all they can do is talk about jobs. What sort of policies can be put in the placed to create the jobs that are soaked up all those graduates. We can do it. It's as we don't have the political will we don't have we don't have the infrastructure setup to to create the jobs of these students need. So what's gonna happen. I'm afraid. That citizen other than in other media as well I'm afraid that. The student loan. Problem. Is going to be our next. National financial crisis. There's well over a trillion dollars student loan outstanding. Exceeded only by. Credit card debt of all Americans combined. So I know that this is a problem year you're torture. And the fact. The student graduating. Can't get a job that allows them to buy car. Get married. Put it down payment on the house and chaos or student loans. That. He has a systemic problem that. America's gonna have to face and they're probably. And take five years or ten but it going to be. So that you think. Robert show to. Very interesting to say in order. It is more introducing thank you drama with the time I agree and he. Thank you for. Its that would that would come and drug doubled a big age 73. Weird bill are sure old news. On big bearing over the years. Titles like it is gangster bankers too big to Jim Angle. Barings financing financing Mexico drug gangs. And terrorism. In the Middle East and imported on that play golf for truly Scott Reeves played a little bit and and it's like congress it's at least some in congress. Our target about scaling back for a name for regulations. Were in acted after 2008. Went through with the bat and almost failed and Wheaties. Bailed them out. Say what ifs questions comments to send you one separately. But yeah.