WWL>Topics>>07-29-11 10am Walter Lane

07-29-11 10am Walter Lane

Jul 29, 2011|

Walter Dub Lane, associate profesor of economics and finance at UNO, talks about the debt ceiling debates

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Automatically Generated Transcript (may not be 100% accurate)

It's Friday and that means -- in static -- And it will be disappointed but Ireland needs some rest as the guy who works hard goes that a 110 miles an hour you know that. We're gonna have a good time that they were gonna try to help sort some of this mess out with the debt ceiling extension in com. What some of the ramifications. Of that could be will talk about the economic considerations in this hour then in the 11 o'clock hour we'll talk about. The political. Met two nations of what went on in com. I don't understand if the Republicans who control the house can't get a bill allowed. Then if the Democrats who control the senate get a bill -- sent it to the Republicans and I don't see how that's gonna work either. Which brings us to the economic consideration. Of default. On the debt. Are ready jaguar opinion polls should Tea Party congress members hold out for deeper spending cuts even if it means defaulting. An economic disaster for the nation. Now some do you think there would be no economic disaster. And last week I was able I don't know it would be either because Wall Street hasn't reacted. Until this week. And then there were like three or four straight days of down market wouldn't quite sure what happened yesterday because. As much in the news and they said the market was down but the graphic they put up at the arrows as out so I guess will be in the air with my guest doctor Walter doubling in an associate professor of economics and finance. At a department chair at my alma -- you know I need a doctor line -- you good thanks for taking a time when -- hope you do have some time to don't take as many phone calls as we candidate and try to clear fact from fiction and perception from reality as we discussed this. Which seemed like and answering concept at first but now wild elephant is an abstract concept or not as spoilers the nation defaulting. On its debt let me talk about the market -- since I was -- will be confused about that did it was are we on the -- precipice if you will of having the first down market the most down market in a week for a long time. Well we've certainly seen for our days and role of if things heading down that people are starting. For the most part I think the market is that now these guys watching and they'll clean up their -- then they'll get this over I think they're starting to Google Earth now. Because it is that they do default I think it could be really kind of catastrophic. So it's hard to say the date of what we're acting is doing is predicting the outcome the political process. Which is very strange because when you talk about the ball. An economist you to think about Greece -- Greece's -- -- can't pay their bills are probably the political problem. That we just have chosen not to pay. But it still creates some of the things issues. What I hate is when. Economic matters become politicized because I always like to look at it as. Is is a good business deal or nine and that comes to tax subsidies that comes to tax credits in the state Louisiana that comes -- trying to get off the beaten path here I'm just. Saying that whenever ye -- factor politics and with economics to me it always makes for strange bedfellows and a big mess. Because ultimately. The deciding factor should be will isn't a good business deal or is it not and when it comes to default. I like to have economists on. That really know what the effects would be all -- you don't know I guess you can project with the defects would be because we're in uncharted. Territory here. And the question I want the audience to consider as you and I have this conversation this morning is. Com are you willing to roll the dice and is now the time. To draw the line in the sand. -- -- offered deeper spending cuts and no new taxes if for example you'll wind up curing the disease but killing the patient. And I'm talking about. We've had a lot of trouble with the US economy I'd jobless or warts and jobless claims although the latest. Unemployment. Claims report -- think was down slightly is that right doctor and OOP. The latest unemployment report was down slightly is that right. It -- unemployment claims it has it changed much. It's been kind of holding fairly fairly fairly steady high. High 889. Range hide so they're probably not much not much improvement though it kind of went down a little bit -- -- -- back up and so they're just kind of -- in the night. So let's talk about it before always talk about what we're risking here 'cause 'cause I think in a way we -- Make an analogy to rolling the dice at a casino in Las Vegas what. What what is the state of the economy right now in the nation just give people a little thumbnail sketch. It's we're doing very very poor week. We technically been out of the recession for two years. Because the definition perceptions in the economy going down. And we've -- we hit the bottom and and and we've been slowly going up. But it's been going so slowly up that nobody can tell because the unemployment rate has remained high. Now inflation hasn't been a problem or some rumblings about possibly I think in the future -- and so. But the back again employment rate really tells. That the biggest is in is because that's where that most of the pain is for people. And we just have not -- employment rate go down because our economy's not growing fast enough. To create a number of jobs we need to solve the unemployment -- And so alone we have -- still very. Sick economy. And despite unemployment rate is and a -- Why haven't checked release of these conductors. Eight point 88 point nine something like that the would have been nine point one can look at least. Around numbers around ninth. Round 9%. And on the in terms of housing starts in the which is up big indication of how the economy is doing because. As I understand it. That that's key because when you did so many things go into building a house right the economy is stimulated -- that only with the cabinets in the. There blah blah blah blah blah well and remember it was the housing market bubble that started this whole thing. And it was is that it was a financial market collapse it was based on housing market collapsed and the housing market has not recovered. And we still have. You know hype or foreclosure rates and everybody knows my next door neighbors been trying to sell -- house for over a year and it sold. And because it because of the bout the foreclosures. Means a lot of houses are coming on the market. A very cheaply. And so therefore people with a a regular house can't sell well because white -- at your house kind of a normal -- of like by this sport and they've basement out of the bank is trying to get off their books. And the foreclosures continue to be strong. And so it's gonna take another year due to clear up the housing market and so you're not gonna build new houses very much. Because again he's actually doing fairly well nationally but the rest food -- the country's housing starts are or where dale. And aren't expected to pick up and you and they are big employment. Generate. So. That's the housing market is a big part of this opening your -- All right so I entered an unemployment housing market 1000 -- missing in terms of state of the economy right now. Well that there are some other things that are -- mean corporate profits. And you know the that corporations have a lot of money. For investment and hiring people things like that the problem is they're not gonna do it so we're actually we're always. Where the business sector could start expanding they've got. You know plenty of money to do that they're just not gonna spend money until they think -- the people -- to bide their products and because of the unemployment rate in the general. Fear that everybody has about the future nobody's buying much right now also their -- company -- making but if we finally you know work to start. Solving this problem that things could start picking up like that. And it goes consumer confidence right -- our low. Crop. Might very well we're gonna take a break right now we come back now evident given everybody just a glimpse of the economy is now. Nationally because yet taken average you can't just look at how would isn't. Now Orleans parish of the metropolitan new loans area we come back we're talking about what you think in your opinion as a as a Ph.D. in economics would happen. If the country defaults. On its dad and will talk about bond rating etc. OK doctor. Certainly very well we'll take your phone calls don't make this interactive it's music so -- at any toll free 86688908. -- and indeed the whole reason behind this. Is I want to make an informed decision as to whether or not. You really want the people in congress. To draw the line in the sand and say you know what did the problem with. Deficit and debt is so severe. That it is worth defaulting on the dead even though. It may have some dire. Consequences -- already struggling economy. Are you willing to roll -- dice and that we know what the debt is worse. Than. What could happen in the economy we default on the debt that's ultimately is what the question is I think and that's what we need to decide. I guess not to Walter doubling from your -- helpless sorted out the numbers 2601870. Toll free 86 exit eight -- early seventy very complicated stuff. I do not have all the answers trying to get from doubling. Back in a flash. -- -- 870 -- WL -- tummy -- -- for Garland -- we're gonna spend this hour talking about the economics. Raising the debt ceiling in what happens if we don't will spend next hour talking about. The politics of it and we're not gonna have the political conversation -- our because doctor Walter doubling from my alma money you know nice not spend. An -- witness talking about the the numbers in the economics of it. But the reason I'm spending so much time on this today is I thought. The markets were watching this and I thought that they weren't very concerned so I thought it was just political theater and in in the debt limit was gonna get. Raised. But then the market started to react very negatively this week which makes me think they are getting concerned and they're getting concern well quite frankly I'm getting concerned. And then when you look at the politics of this. Other Republicans pulled the bull was the bill forty in slip their doctor pulled bowl they've pulled the bills late. Yesterday afternoon and if the Republican House can't get their own bill. Out of the House of Representatives. And the senate. Which is controlled by Democrats are gonna get -- version out and send it to the house. I don't know what chance that's got of passing the clock continues to tick toward August the second. So I think we might be looking at something in very real here and that's why. I'm -- doctor willing to spend an hour -- this and take your phone calls to see what would be the economic. Ramifications. To the country. Of all of this happening up ready jaguar opinion polls should Tea Party congress members sold out for deeper spending cuts. Even if it means defaulting and economic disaster for the nation and as it stands now. Pretty evenly split 47%. Say and you and 53%. Saying now works of phone calls -- as well so bill uptown key you're on -- WL. -- taken McCaw I know my initial opinion is that we -- certainly the debt -- now not now not later. And based on -- and and my question for the for the professors as. That we -- the human male workers and -- it paid off borrow money. Eventually. We got them default anyway if we continue to more money because obviously -- Iran we just economic and on the road. -- -- -- -- its offer now or later night. We keep going at that borrowing at the rate we all are stand. Been in a decade or so we'll problem would probably be in a position. Where we would you know it's like Greece there so it that is not being -- about them if it happened this year next year or the year after that. You know if we get economy turned around and start getting some economic growth a lot of the deficit will go -- one thing to remember is that. It's kind of amazing to me is that right now we have the lowest amount of revenues coming into mark government. That we have since 1950. So we have a huge revenue problem now large part of that is because of the recession. But people aren't making it much but He apart as. Everybody's been talking about yes there is huge spending problem but we also have a revenue -- we are giving tax revenues going in the the government. At the same rate we did in 1950. Before Medicare be forced you know all these other -- all the programs. -- a -- -- a lot of programs for spending programs but we don't have the revenues to support so we do have a. Revenues. Slotted let me follow up with that question -- -- problem accurate is good them. Equivalency and and news C -- That -- follow -- question is. Currently as saying that we do not enough money to pay interest on the debt. And portion of the essential so that the military. Our law enforcement and think like Social Security Medicaid and Medicare. Will we. -- -- we expect. Large Portugal and wouldn't that be an -- isn't out of the option in just moment. Well. There would be. What I haven't heard from. The president. And and I think it's on purpose because obviously both sides are playing some here tactic I think a lot of reason to be scared but you know what happens on August. They've talked department default default is when you don't pay your bar works. Well when we -- we will not have an audience starting August 2 the pale pale all of all of the things that congress has already obligated as do we will not be able to pay all of those. And some people picked apart when others are officials second our August 2 as -- visual later. But someplace close the yeah because they'll -- right. For -- if I can jump in for a second president and the White House said that. January July 22 was a drop dead date in that was the time needed for congress to enact all the actual legislation. To get it done in order to avoid the August 2 date and and they kind of backtracked on that so in terms of credibility they -- of a problem there announcing. And and again August 2 or you know could they really fiddle with things for a week or two. Possibly. But the point is there is a real date and -- it -- early in here and it is clear that that the federal government will not be able field has -- now. Which ones they choose the -- Now they could choose to pay all of our debt which would mean we would not be in default. But then they would have. Have to start closing down government offices. You know and in various things of that sort like what happened in Minnesota recently the state of Minnesota with incest and date they. You know they -- pass the budget and -- really started laying off government employees closing down government offices in -- closing down Padilla and the all those are the things. Some of those things will happen. And X but I'd heard no planet exactly what they're going to do but there will be real pain in terms of I think Social Security that they would sort dealing with. But they might stopping the Medicare -- bills they might stop. Now of course the question will pay our military that's probably not one that they would. They would choose to do but they might start you know late closing -- but the all offices in Washington DC but a lot of those things. Our are -- -- very important that this is not the way to deal. So I think it will be very real pain being being -- if we don't get something done by August. Thank you bill appreciate the call Dick in new loans hi you're on -- WL. Yeah. Seems to me that a default would bring on. Basically export policy change would really work. Feel like everybody congress strapped to -- -- that nobody wants. Accuracy on them. With election. The policy into -- I'll get into the Croat -- color but here. Yes if we it would cause will be -- would cost policy change immediately they're trying to use the threat of the ball. The try to get policies passed but if you actually default. Then where do you stop spending the money who makes those decisions. And we actually start defaulting on on our -- Then. Then of course everybody's gonna start seeing higher interest rates. In -- -- mortgage auto payments all of these things those are real dollars real people's pockets. And are done and it's a disease is not the way to do. We I think we have fundamental problem is that in it was caused by the American people the American people went through a couple years ago. Four years ago and three years ago and elected Barack Obama and I gave him a democratic house and democratic senate He -- did what the people pulled into the added two years later they always like that that they may now took away the majority I mean the super majority in the senate and they took away the majority house. We don't have a split we have half the people trying to go one way capital trying going that was caught by the American people some of them elected very progressive. Populist you know government in Obama and and we turn around and and put a budget Tea Party people. So we created this problem and then everybody nobody wants to compromise. And the problem. They had to quickly any good news. At all I mean yeah I mean. And aren't treated I made -- -- outspoken against all veterans there but apple of the conversation you -- don't -- -- Thank you Dick appreciated will take a break come back and I want to talk about as well as taking your phone calls at 26 though. 18 set any toll free 86688908. Says any. You know we talk about does so sturdy payments we talk about. Military. Families and in soldiers are getting paid and on -- talk about some people that don't have a direct hand in it how that's gonna affect. Their lives and a professor. Spoke about it briefly in terms of higher interest rates on cars and and homes and everything you buy even credit cards. And what about adjustable rate mortgages and foreclosures would would that mean. If the country defaults on its debt in what kind of timeline are we look at -- and how would that affect. That the economy which is already struggling and that's -- the first couple of minutes as in the professor about the seat to the economy now. Take a break for news coming right back in -- seven needs evidently well I'd Tommy Tucker and for Darlene talking with professor Walter doubling from mile no mine's alma mater about. Debt ceiling and default and what would it mean if the United States does that because I know some of you have. Very strong feelings about this politically thinking that it now is it time to draw the line in the sand and say you know what we need to. We need to cut the deficit we need to cut spending and absolutely no new taxes. But if the country defaults on the debt a lot of economists including doctor winners and and we know what. You might and let me ask you that -- -- -- a faulty analogy -- not that -- cure the disease but it. Maybe not kill but do severe harm to the patient. I think we well I think if we if we don't reach some type of resolution on this there will be pain felt in this country and they did you ask you originally. Our our our economy is fairly weak right now. Com it's hard to predict we never we never default that the force so it's hard to talk about what it -- ball would be and that and its implications. And again other countries in the ball the biblical principle that we're sick economies -- mean they they default they commentator bill. We -- that we are defaulting because we've chosen. Not the page the legal obligations the congress is committed to. And -- that we have that the congress passed the budget that we will we are obligated to spend as much money and now we're saying no we don't. Until they're I don't go anyplace in this world with this has happened before so with the Hartford but I but I do know that that at some point. If we don't Apple's legal ability to borrow some more money that we will have to stop spending money. And of course every got whatever but He wants I don't think this is the way they want -- I think people ought to be. The people -- -- date that date but let's do the ball because that's when one I think they're not going to be happy with the way happen W line. Well because -- wanted to things. Either they're gonna start you know just -- You know not paying government police so Walton will be a 100000 government employees that aren't getting page they're told gulf. You don't get a paycheck this week. Well you know that's what -- this what's second and all those all those people. You know if you want to cut back spending you wanna do in the planned. Organized in in in the manner not in the say well it's Tuesday to every article today were closing down at office. So either you minister closing down the national parks and eagle raiders well. You know. You know closing down construction projects on on interstate highways and say okay -- I would at all with that all the construction workers well that you're not get paid. Or more they've got to stop paying our government debt. Which means that we default on the -- And an interest in the stock market will probably crash. Which again there goes the rest -- -- 401K. Our bond markets will be built put in the turmoil interest rates will start rising altered your house payment. Those people -- forums. When notes come due they're gonna start paying more money. This is not the way to solve this problem we have a political problem we have -- -- of the deficit is huge problem the -- -- -- -- it needs to be solved. But we need to solve it politically this is not the -- Yet ARM's of those adjustable rate mortgage and I remember. First house I've bought back in the eighty something in -- -- in treasury was thirteen and a half percent. So people that were used to the three and a half warning half percent mortgages. I've herself what kind of interest rate increase are you talking about and talking about far more people being foreclosed on -- -- I've seen estimates and and again I don't. I'm not alien numbers persons -- haven't looked at these beauties myself but I seen ethnically or start talking about 1% higher. Interest rates on mortgages car loans things of that sort. Maybe yes 650000. More people unemployed. Because of consequences of shutting down various things. And so we talk about pretty substantial. Pretty substantial changes but it also. It it just affects the whole thing the the US currency is the world standard. It is that reserve Corsica the world it's what oil prices in the world because the rest of the world thinks that we have faced the solid government. But it it's dependable. If we lose that that for the rest of the world then it causes all kinds of implication is that nobody even in the -- right. -- And get a text from people talking about cutting billions of foreign -- subsidy cut our losses in Libya as stuff spending on the war. Stop the wasteful spending. From the actual unemployment rate including people no longer qualify for unemployment benefits certainly valid concerns. But -- the clock ticking in August 2 deadline. Or not or maybe. A little beyond that in some of the consequences of people who are just going to work and paying their bills and don't. Trying to pay their bills overly have a me up -- hand in any of this debt ceiling business. Those are long term problems and and I don't know necessarily know that. We as they as just work and people can afford to David that this is the way to solve that problem I'm in I'm missing something here or not it. It of this hostage situation. Where somebody that we could do we have you know two groups the the liberals want to have a vision of bigger government and that. Tea Party people who want to cut back the government. Are both sitting there and the economy of the hostage and it says -- you know if you don't do what I want you to do then we're gonna shoot -- that. While we're hostage. And and again we have some political problem need to be results -- -- this is not the way at all. -- -- that does bond ratings Tripoli bond rating well again in the we have. That's the highest bond rating that's possible federal government has that on -- And because of that we borrow money for laughs okay so the the US government but right now work. We borrowed money point -- almost 0% interest. But them. We. We have the lowest. Interest rates. And the federal government. Interest rate is the basis of all other actors in the primary is base which is what businesses -- that is based on that -- rate mortgage rates are based on the prime rate. Car loans. Credit card are all based on rates so if that rate which we keep our -- -- that lowering the bond rating with a B should be immediate increase. In the amount that we -- the Paper work for the federal government debt. That old rival Wall Street also means if the federal government paying more on interest that huge debt that we. Now becomes a bigger problem is it has been more of our current budget to pay -- those higher interest loans. So it just makes the problem that make big the deficit works. I got a text -- comes in and and maybe we can separate the political. From. The economic. Question here and it -- leave Afghanistan and we lost that terrorists plan -- always been the bankrupt -- truth hurts so let me rephrase this in that from. And -- and ask you this before or not but from the time those buildings crashed into the world trade senators. The world trade towers. At that point the checkbook opened up and we we started spending a lot more you mention that the revenues. Where at the lowest amount since the 1950s so that kind of put this on a court to on of course rather. To big debt and deficit didn't. I yeah I mean the bitter I think there's so clearly the military -- Afghanistan -- Iraq has been a big part of the deficit. That is actually already projected to once again we've made commitments to cut our spending in in and pull troops out of Afghanistan and Iraq both. So that'll be one -- professor or -- years it's gonna change so that would mean you don't necessarily have to draw the line in the sand now. Well no it's simply that as one component of that part cooling down but the project that is party include those projections. That that military part has been that's a big part. Problem is that those all of those war expenditures were not paid for all those with -- paid for out of -- We knew that we we chose not to raise taxes the -- those wars so we borrowed money so that is one of the sources that the deficit. And clearly the stimulus spending from Obama has been piling on top of that. He started with George Bush George Bush cut taxes but did not cut spinning it back He would increase spending because the military. So He had tactically against spending going up so the so the deficit was getting bigger and bigger under bush and then Obama came and which into -- but one example which is not his fault which is the economy going into. A recession. And now how He dealt with that is that is certainly is responsibility but with the economy goes recession that's what one of the reasons the revenues are so much. But then He started spending money and hand over fist in the stimulus package. A majority of which really had nothing do -- stimulus. And so that's when the deficit soared mushrooming and so. George Bush started the prop and at what goes back further but George Bush are the problem and Obama just tripled it. Some which was his ball a lot of which was simple but some of them that the recession part of that was because of the housing bubble and and financial market collapsed. Which was. Not necessarily. Directly his ball. And so you know there's a lot of things have gone into this and in their four. Let's not try to use this debt artificial Betsy most countries the world do not -- -- there's no. No no economic reason to have a debt ceiling. -- you -- simply using it as applicable ploy which is like the call to does that is that let's use this to get government opening it and if you wanna -- government spending and control that elect people bewildered. And we that we happens we've elected as we've collected about a rep house representatives who wants to do that but even they can't get their act the other sort -- Wednesday. But we we still haven't that -- the president which were elected by the people and so which part of the people that represented. Yeah we could go way back now just say get back to the second bush administration's seven debt ceiling hikes from five point nine trillion new eleven point three trillion. But it -- was increased. And average seven. To fourteen point two trillion. The -- doing increased three point one trillion. One point. We're tree in each hike. So will take a break come back and take your phone calls for progress -- professor Walter doubling from mile no talking about -- debt ceiling thing that. You know I don't know about you all mall toward debt and deficit reduction but. I am I'm jammed by this economy just like a lot of you'll are. And I can't afford to draw the line in the sand right now and I don't have a choice but to kick the can down the road and deal with it. -- -- more responsible manner we will let you take your phone calls when we return. Tommy Tucker and for Garland Robinette on a think tank in the -- seventy WL. I trying to get as many calls him doctor Walters still -- From. Texans and doctor segment debt ceiling we continue to kick the can down a road rules have to feel the pain later when I do it now rather than later. And I think the answer would be an all insert personal -- would you think he's you know I hand it like six hours of economics. I had Tim Ryan actually is a graduate also does it. No kidding is a graduate assistant and economically in economics and and I asked told him one time money that He gave me a. Right and I but He anybody late Monday night he's an excellent teacher He how's He doing Indian I haven't since He retired I have not heard from him. So I'd I haven't talked in the night. Anyway my guess would be that you have the option of dealing with some of these problems long term. And instituting some reform long term and hopefully that the economy will be in a better position. To deal with it down the road then you will meld and NN day and and and again to deal with. Patient beds in a more healthy condition that healthier condition than they are there then the patient is now we think. Yes that we do need to deal that we need to start dealing with that as -- because our current deficit rate is unsustainable. But again that's a political question and the problem as. Although -- a lot of people feel that's the problem. We have not elected majority of people maturity of senators and representatives they can handle. We we elected a bunch of people that don't wanna deal and a botched it did do -- -- deal with that. And or deal with it in different ways and they just can't get together so it's really a political issue and and certainly the economy's suffering we do need to start doing it. I just don't think that the debt ceiling. Is is is the right way to do it this threat could cause a lot of problems people just don't understand and they won't wanna be seeing. If we use it as a way to do. -- economy recover and then you deal with this. Spending and a way that He would be far less painful to the average American. Well when it it -- economy recovers. Then the problems will be getting smaller because -- economy recover revenues for the government go up and the deficit goes there. But and then of course been the problem becomes less we do need to stop stop the spinning problem. Immediately the Obama stimulus plan and in and the budgets that were passed by him. Where are just unsustainable. In the American public says we're not willing to pay taxes to support those plans. That we have to cut back the -- likely to hold a long time -- -- EW. Basically. Did He -- so a lot of which. He said that my my big thing is we just can't borrow added debt. And I think it's kind of dangerous to keep on. -- -- debt ceiling without giving some sort of reform. Two to curb the debt that we have because eventually we will go into a depression and in addition to that -- who America is in trouble on the equivalent means we're in trouble because we gotta keep on. Because of Boston. And if we you know in a lot of people I don't think I think I did not help but you know you'd is that everything is well with focus on the far right now. But. But it's been just the final week that we can a legitimate. Financial problem in this country and we got its. To realize that grant it and and be responsible try to stop its. Like the house that trying to do now. And see if there is due in denial about that professor they also in denial about possible effects of default. I guess that because people don't know what those all and that's and then -- indeed I don't I don't think people understand the consequences of what the proposed. I take I agree completely we do need to get a hold of it. And department to get different -- one groups as part of the solution have to be some revenue enhancement the other group says that's not acceptable. And because they can't agree that nothing getting done. -- in the and so. We did neither side elected enough people to push their plan through so you don't have compromise that I think their image they're. -- -- -- Let me give you 32 save the United States save the republic. What would you do here you would save. Not save you would deal with this debt ceiling it now and then. How would you get them to address the issue of debt and deficit down a road. Well. That is. We can get pushed the debt ceiling until late in just rated and up for weeks until they finally reached. A compromise of some sort in the and the promise nobody is willing to compromise and need to neither side has enough votes to put their plan through there's gonna. Have to be a compromise. And and that's I don't know what it's gonna take to get that -- and and I and I am sympathetic the Tea Party people were elected under promise that they're going to cut. Spending and not raise taxes so there's abuse in their elected to do but are we have to remember the other side was elected to do everything. So. It's a political issue and until that in I believe it's caught by the American public elected to group of people little. Professor I'm glad you spent the time when listener and I think you helped a lot of people formulate their opinion at least get some facts to help them do that that. I'll be have a great weekend okay take it thank you professor Walter doubly interview -- -- Tommy and for Garland on a think tank we will be right back on the big 87 into the W.