And happy Monday and it isn't happy Monday one who won a football game two of the sun is out it's absolutely gorgeous. And it's the beginning of the special week Halloween week. We have a lot to talk about today and we're gonna start with one of my favorite people on this earth Burl Cain. Louisiana imprisons more people than any other place in the world and that's in the world. How can that be. Do we have more criminals than any other place. It's costing a fortune. In some pair shows the prison industry is an economic engine. Burl Cain is the longest running Wharton in the nation. He began his work in prisons 32 years ago and has been the head warden and Angola for the last nineteen of them. He has seen the growth in the numbers of those incarcerated. And has his own thoughts on why and what might be done to slow it down. But he is also here to tell us about some programs he hasn't Angola that are making a difference to those who may get out and to those who will never believed. And I really meant when I said this man has been very generous every time I've ever called Angola to do stories over the last 1520 years. And I've learned a lot and I've learned a lot through his eyes. Means a lot that you would come and talk to us and I just wanna invite anybody who would like to call to please call us if you have any questions for the war. But but let's talk first of all about beaten nobody wants bad guys out. I think we're all in agreement with that nobody wants creek bed criminals out. I think the question is if we've sort of doubled our ranks. In the last twenty years yourself. Are all of them so bad that they should be in. Well no not really though and we've done some things to to make a difference your net area. Specifically well why is is that we use in the past allowed to allow the wardens of the proven. To be a member Activision remember the part in pro board. And so now we're able to say they would donuts has won go he's smoking dope you do in order -- and he's really bad. They were up today don't know where before they -- just look at their record and try to figure out who to release you're not released. And so they -- doing a good job with that because it didn't have the proper information so net I'm telling on this when shouldn't get out and I got to let him out. An event of this -- it should be considered and we're gonna consider victims because victim always -- We don't want anyone release from proven that someone has to be afraid. And so that's a whole another issue in -- victim reconciliation. Some never reconcile some -- That again another story but victims drop and we have to remember them. All works. Out judge Ricky wicker of the fifth Circuit Court of Appeals said recently that our culture is one of high sentencing. Would you agree with that. It is because we failed so miserably in the corrections businessmen could we forget that corrections remains to correct deviant behavior. It doesn't remain locked in for the torture and torment the image correct. And so in a bit -- we've forgotten the meaning of the word and that's what we really didn't do it Angola in our department of corrections today. The secretary -- We're really and a re entry in changing behavior and you tell me today about a gather that that's not didn't come back -- -- after he got out. He almost did but what there really meant to me was there was one less victim of -- trial so victim his own. So. Louisiana is different in that week do incarcerate so many so many more than other states and I just can't think that the state has. That many more criminals. Well Charles Manson gets a hearing in California. But we don't have hearings for inmates here because people are afraid. Because again we failed so the politicians I'll run on this platform there was no -- to -- so with the key. So they have to doable wasn't losing had a really it should indeed his sentencing reform. With victims -- man and always remember that they trump and you don't -- -- -- who want to gather worked to branch out with us now big live. Committed a murder first degree murder along time ago but that he's totally rehabilitated he will not commit another murder he has the job with Franklin Graham. Working with samaritans -- if he ever gets out. So there -- a lot of them that now have totally had been rehabilitated it would not hurt you -- their noble good people that you saw this in the mill you gave me when macadamia. That's well and he's -- and reform but we need to remember the victims. So let's take that man for an example of one who. That the big guy who. It is rehabilitated does have a job could have a job with the gut out but if his victims still protest him getting out he doesn't count. He doesn't get out because the victim have to trump because they should be able move free of fear. In this country this somewhat not gonna creep up to them and hurt him again and they know what trauma they go through which is horrendous. To be a victim about our our have a fan remember that a victim about crap. And we have always remember that and if we keep that and our man and keep it -- before -- We then can have senator reform big blue still unproven because there's a victim Mayhew and he'll have to stay there to that issues resolved. On Angola of course has is the maximum security prison and you do have a lot of violent offenders. But where some of the other prisons around the state art as it doesn't have as high a number. Of violent offenders is that correct. That's true. In Angola if you have fifty years. Or less you go somewhere else so we only key improvement there other than the -- to population which is a thousand a night. We have 6250. Improvements and then go left putt and more people than maybe is imparted to when you think about it. Disparity theater correctional officers another 15100. So you have to have a over fifty years. To be in Angola and most of them have last it is so we have about 4000 laugher is the average senate for the wrist is about 95 years so only. Five or 10% of them will ever get out. Four other prisons though where. No violence perhaps but it's the third time -- around its theme that the continual drug user. Not the big guy -- is distributing but just somebody gets continually picked up to finally the law says you're going in the slammer for a while. -- is that what's bulking up our population. Prison population. No not so much we've actually passed legislation that those he that after 25 years can be released can have a pro. And they have to do a lot of -- a lot of things have to get an education -- -- skill of the trade. And so forth we just have too much about that our community we have too much shooting we ever elected to piper you know want them a day almost and that revision. And I just horrible and those people are -- outcome Angola and gonna put him in to fail on I don't be -- and vegetables and dropped and they won't come more from me instead of being fray with a just keep doing it. That I have a place for. What about the that idea that we are spending more and more. As taxpayers as a society for a growing industry. Well that is that is of concern but if you really and when asked make the groups that talk about the family unit -- -- talk about no dead at home. And I talked about teaching your children. To follow those simple room when a real smile not -- to united immoral -- -- to relate. So you can always change them but the great thing. Because if he has the rules to follow at home and as a -- in this consequences if he doesn't follow those -- Your mandate teaching him to follow Ali's older and their consequences if you don't follow -- So we need to do a better job with -- -- -- our church is. In in on -- end -- -- we have to do a lot better dealt with re entry and that's what we're doing -- kind of in and go allow offers. Have become -- new teachers who with the skills and traits to trying to short termer if you know -- those -- -- -- so there employable. You get out of prison in euros certified automotive mechanic that doesn't that doesn't break your funny end. You get a job if you get out driven to go sweep the floor you don't have you. But you you know you're not really really truly have any -- and trade so targeted. Stay with us is we're going to continue to talk with warden Burl Cain. About his moral rehabilitation program kind of touched on a little bit with using some of the lifers to help the other ones. Very very interest and stay with -- this is Angela under the W -- our special guest today is working -- came Horton of Angola. He's been there. Nineteen years. -- been over thirty years in the world of prisons and I against you pretty much seen it all. But I would like your thoughts on. What makes a criminal. Okay that's pretty simple when you really think about it and that made my -- the becomes. Immoral people. Right over and steel moral people do not Robby is -- Albright to allow their moral and immoral. OK we get bald we were right within. If anybody can be malls so therefore I'm gonna. And rehabilitate them I have to put the moral component and -- well as education and other well that is -- just border crime. And so that morality is coming to us in our situation for the new Orleans Baptist theological seminary and put our own actions. And imagine this Angola at 6200 him right we have no profanity in the proof. We have a rule against years sanction and punished if you use profanity. Okay its -- cut profanity. We reduce output of paper cards and one another are more apt to fight so with the inmates themselves though asked us to stop the profanity. So I had to be the first want to ask that Nokia won't quit you and any profanity everybody -- adequate to. And it really too because that we quipped we were less repressive tool. So we've reduced attention and approved those in the home. When you're spewing out profanity and so for the read your children is so -- your breeding a culture a lot of profanity which really can result in balanced. And in his nugget. So the mall saying the mall culture what's led Angolans so peaceful that he female Q while -- weren't proven that was of no cash cows no gangs. It is very site so that the -- so out of it immoral people and -- -- detail the other want to just have no boundaries into that the Kremlin. So -- going to be moral that I can rehabilitate. That -- Don't give someone who has had no show no evidence of having a conscience. How can you at this stage of their life gives them a conscience. Well -- life issue KK tomorrow. But you can catch the vast majority of them in that is our own integrity and they take the road -- -- and her father. In and I treat them as the if they're teenagers. And so therefore what I tell -- south and I'm gonna do it never allowed two home event on the base of more than better be there. And so we have these boundaries that a parent can have over a teenager. That maybe -- a petition -- to do but in my case I can make you do and so therefore then this gives them the boundaries that they depend on it playing too. And we start finish Steve this small arms. This -- environment because they actually like it better because they're -- And it they wanna be siphoned or cut it out and they -- been her brother's keeper which remains I guess I had three cellphones. They came in to prune it to rodeo. In and other in my -- told -- for the war there's three -- over here that it -- the -- and -- they -- to get through. So the end might actually help us manage the program because they are their brother's keeper is not every man for himself it's more fan. You have an actual college on campus the Baptist seminary. It the it's a four -- program just is that they were going to the one here. Writing this is credited just like -- refute. And are relying so it's a rude to anyone college detecting get a real degree. And you have how many graduates. 261. Regret it. I met doctor Kelly who was head of the Baptist seminary here. Recently and we were talking about this program. And he said he'll never forget the first graduating class there were seventeen inmates who have completed a four year course and had graduated. And he said every one of them had murdered somebody. Everyone everyone of them. But to have at that point in their life made the decision. I'm going to do something with my life even though I'm never gonna go beyond angle. I'm going to be a better human being. And now those people are part of your program. That we the last -- -- went up to do some stories was the two judges locally who are working with prisoners to say -- gonna have a second shot. If you don't blow it. That and this judge why he would honor. But investment a little bit about seminary is the Baptist seminary but guess what of the 261 graduate only forty of them have been bad. Twenty we're Catholics the vast majority of 97. When nondenominational. Fifteen -- And one meta physicist I don't even know what those are but anyway. The point is it's create morality not a religion -- Tokyo revision you know -- We hear that your ball. And that's what disseminated there's 27. Charges in the present. The breakers are laugher in late that are murders that one of the congregation of over 200. The winner go to church in this in my preachers preach and tool not someone from outside it way more effective. That of prism and become them from the house. So it's really incredible and -- judge why did Connor thought about the recent report. Which would be that we would cheat and steal and trade in what they had those killed and we have to -- the moral component we have teach anger management and guess what. There's an inmate. Murder is -- and other in my anger management can you believe that the end by murders -- you know vocational school. And because they they really take deed in the short term -- known as their children live -- laugh at them -- of these successful on the straight. It's really incredible. In its war in its patent today in their 450 vocational slot and Angola will only have three. Public teachers are played teaches the rest are proof. And -- take. Now that money in for the supply problems do is come -- from the rodeo. And so therefore we're doing now is with no burden to the taxpayer. Because -- budget to shore. But it's incredible that the image to take over and run girls do. Well an eyewitness that my own eyes I watched them teach that automotive course. And you should be noted that that is a national course you have to pass a national exam to be certified. But that means you can go to any dealership in this town and -- I have the certification. To repair acts. And that's a good job. He would harm because this is AST's certification. And that really hard. But we take him to applies in Latvia where they actually test them I don't come to the pro in the test. They have to take Elliott does battery of tests and we had the one M night whose name is -- in a motor vehicle hall of fame that out of the certification. 52 of them in a founding of the governors that is part and he'd -- -- thousand a year working and in general and the generation industry. He started that in general. The -- success story where this guy with a murder you refrain he's due on growth. And he spent what 25 years in prison this -- seven years and mango 27 years in Angola. Had rehabilitated. And finally the governor signed out and now he's a successful. Participating citizen. -- no victim objected evict numbered page for that so that was cleared. So then he's back productive citizen he should've stayed in proven 25 years for what you do. Are you know some -- senate and he deal. So you shouldn't just -- stabbed around back acted changing got to be -- -- allow. In there with the victim OK so -- grow and we can do more of the lot more than well I mean there's a reason for punishment. -- -- -- He's -- he -- be punished to that's good 25 years pretty good. The the component of -- will or excuse me but it's need to dad. And that's while we -- own apartment probe were to advise them these are not gonna tell me something would never thing. We -- that we have to watch for. And what are the what are the things that you immediately city this -- never gonna change. The facts anger and also we have to take in consideration middle help. But when he just continues to break through he just continued to side and I feel sorry for some paired with -- you can be great parents. Is still have a child you'd break your heart. You do everything you can't -- dollar money you and they just won't giant. And there's some people just lack -- we need to keep them on our prayer because that's a tragedy for the parent to two out of the of the job. We're talking with Burl Cain Wharton of Angola now let's join Chris Miller in the news for talking with important Burl Cain I think Colin. And we're talking about a program he has that he's believed in for a long time. There is no rehabilitation. And the issue morally rehabilitate someone. He has now program set up where. Inmates are taught real career skills not just. Once you get out make minimum wage of an opportunity. If you get out to really have a career. But coupled with that once an inmate is selected for that than there the other component is the sort of shadowed by one of the people. Who is either gone through the Baptist ministry. Career I mean college. Right he's he's a graduate of the seminary and he becomes a mall Mets are and so -- this inmate did not be here first for the for the court that good wide stand -- -- -- good -- night. Then he's gonna -- that person I -- he's got to go to class and learn is skills and trade. But then when he goes back he leaves to go to the dormitory go to eat there Rory goes the moment -- be with -- And he goes stay within he ghostly been assigned dorm within. And he's gonna be sure that he's there to give him an blasting counsel he's trying to do that from the seminary as a preacher that -- person. And the man -- be a preacher but that's what he's trying to do. And so then he keeps to get out of trouble and -- deal with the morally. India would -- with a laugh about to go on abbey and straight not be and the criminal and how to break that break away from the folks who with before when you were -- that laugh of crime. How to see -- -- he teaches anger management how to deal with your anger. And so this small med -- critical because otherwise he goes to it would get the moral component we need to you don't just get it going to church you have to live -- And that always live and it with a small met -- That's pretty cute and so on their want for every yeah every in my day comes in it's sort of do the other mall Medco are pretty good it would do the. The these are probably the more highly motivated. Prisoners it coming. First second chance but you have some that were really saying that will never get out. But maybe should never get out because they're not motivated to change who they are. That's right well we do it we leave -- at the end of the tunnel. When you live in the cell blocks and you work in the fields and you've you've -- and vegetable than we put you through the pro -- OK so when you or do different when you wanna be better when you say they'll lied then we'll see we'll give you chance. But to -- give me chances -- -- very into you better take advantage of will bring out the cell block and we'll give you a chance to go and do. We give the chance to maybe go the seminary. In you have a chance to change your -- and -- -- under the Imation we were talking about he would real rowdy. Real bad would have been a gang leader but family is hitting. It is with a dead in straight and he wanted to change his lap and do better and so we gave him the opportunity. And that's what's important about our department of corrections we do that so many others don't. Then they send out people who were worse than when they got. And that's what really bad and they prey on a -- Let me ask you I think. Especially in the last six months or so we've seen some really horrific crimes and -- -- it's it's an. And one of the word arrogance keeps coming to mind but it's. It's younger people who were just shooting wildly they've hit babies they've hit women holding babies they've hit little kids sitting on a porch. It's it's unconscionable. That this is happening. That little kids are dying and truly innocent little kids. Because of this arrogance. Of young people who are just shooting. Randomly and they have a target but it's they're hitting many other people. I look at that is a change in our pattern in our society. Are you seeing meant. I am because you know we're tolerant -- some time we've become to tolerant. And they're out of control because there's no boundaries. And that's the kind of gathered need to be sleeping in the bed and go to that the predator. Need to be sleeping in the bed where these -- totally rehabilitated at first sentencing. You know -- change comes down. Is that we should do to lead the -- who are not gonna hurt you again Islam the victim to an object and have more room for the want her about it and send them home. I mean how many chances do you give it to you to you gonna found they kill somebody cinema and I know DA candid they're really good and he really pushes this. But you know the law's the law so you gotta wait you -- right. And but it is it's a trend it's a Psycho people the young the teenager out of control. And a lot of area a lot of place to not put to sleep. And you would say that out a large part of that not the whole thing with a large part of it is lack of parenting. It is lack of parenting and what happened to get to me and Angola it immediately we put out its restrictions Tony. He can't be himself BK do what you most of the he has to do what we wanted to do we take control of his laugh. And we locked him down in holding down to lead -- that he won't detect. Stay with us were gonna continue our talks with warden Burl Cain right after this. -- -- These are very special guest today we have a caller Alex -- -- Alex. In the -- year the facility. But went to one of the lower at one of the -- and use. -- RTC which is what W via. And I met a guy named Alex since there's been. And a guy -- Eric Christian. And when -- -- out with a total. Do every body knows not and Bobby and he would know what do. I -- a -- -- keep that in mind. -- look before I left a little bit on the right. And my mother in Munich on the front itself. That -- due -- Being. -- it -- it -- which would but it's about being. But I'll say -- -- -- -- community. And -- graduated from net. I'm have a degree now I'm doing them. I just like people should be given it in on. I was didn't -- it in -- -- In this country and anybody that. Well I know -- -- isn't on our graduates from the seminary. Is one of the of them died and their -- ministers that was and other programs to do just what they did with the U. And that's great and asked the same thing we haven't -- we have the community college and we established -- -- dollar program with the inmate being the teachers. Because no money for teachers to use the award for you that you -- for rather appreciate Disco. -- that you wouldn't welcome Montel everybody every day out you know staying got back when Alex and it's actually. -- -- -- paper anymore and I'll engineered. Courses and I'm let me think he's Smart as a whip and yeah on -- -- -- -- that prison open. Let me ask -- talisman that some if you hadn't come in contact with these two people. Do you think he would have just finished her sentence walked out of the prison and just continued. The bad track you're on. Well I don't know I don't know power continues but in fact I was on I'm no equipment and I would say -- -- that would indeed he did not been convicted -- it's an easy win. June note that you been taught the rightly used along these guys have been there and you -- you don't realize that -- everything about this and then. And don't just opened up like that anybody. That special people in the lead this -- on our agreement that gives special people -- the -- you know what's special people these people. I'd say I have been doing what I would do because it is without out I don't know and I'm right the good and at one gigabyte fiscal. I was yet you know I was that the country that it is not to do so it's like and then. He wanting to keep. There really stressed the fact that if you go back into the same thing -- will be right it would. Alex thank you so very much for calling I appreciate this a lot. You know warden I read once that. Only 1%. Of the budget for our entire system is for rehab -- one is that correct. And two why is it if it is so little. It caddie has but -- cannot -- -- we've converted our proved to be approved of all of them removed in a but rehabilitation. In our -- trying to -- that in there except the need to granderson seminaries and their presence -- -- now runners -- Secretary -- about it for is the proponent of that. And so we see this change because this was not an -- changes from the -- little -- that are medium security prison. Operators do that are charges and if we saw the change so it really at work and we have to say 1% yes. But we're generating a lot with the rodeo and his play in far and that's where our reentry coming from. What do you see as it in the future happening of both in the penal system. And frankly in society. I think proven fellowship I asked the other states come and Angola. We're now and where West Virginia be there next week to do and disseminated and exactly what we do taxes -- on the same thing. We have found how to change people and -- And we're doing and across the country now it is the -- rehabilitation. And we're -- play the ACLU's behind us we're not having any problem there because we don't preach any religion we don't care if you and religion. We care for your moral. And so we -- and morality where we can't. And that's going to be the change the morality. In there we're gonna standing them right back into the community. As mentor to a new program we just started they get chain -- they get cited in the report. Into that who needs to be back with the suburban chart due to poor and urban churches financially. Does pay these gas to be urban ministers working and a community through programs we now have come out like that they have -- -- -- children in your community. Whole another show that kind of program mallet kind dad. Malkin added that we have we started -- Angola. If so period in Iraq he still has the day. If an animated Angola he still of the day that we teach him how to answer question and meritorious to and -- him that was his children -- about a candidate. So he can be -- diet fan he's the day. In he'd make it different with his children he'll deaths were the -- the rubber meets the road if the children we have to change the next generation. Words of Burl Cain stay with this were not done this is Angela on WWL. We are joined by girls pants wanna go ahead and take another phone call I see that Letitia from Lu Ling is calling about the rodeo Letitia. Calls grew I'll leave -- ability. In the world in eight years. Old. Definitely there. The it hasn't been out I think. I think it oh and out of -- plant. A number -- A couple of days -- exactly. Opposite and it everything it. Quote that you. I don't quite and it happened at that point I think is -- deployment -- I thought and action. Where does the money. Material straight real quick that it don't go to many. Okay here's that war. He admitted he'd been there about fifty years he could be out of -- craft business. We don't know acted -- -- that you know on this but anyway. The week you know how to grab boxes to the inmates two of the best behavior. For instance there's not going to be any kind of that can Cummins do would be and the fans. And so forth and the way it breaks down is. This is an entrepreneurship program itself left. This weather and in my learnt how to create them -- man build it in instead it and keep enough back to restock and have a profit. This is -- in entrepreneurship that part of our reentry program. So therefore be it -- smoke if he'd be if we had drug issues and he smoked dope he's voting thing in any breaking room he can't go. And so we put him on the band isn't really we don't in the back for alone time if ever. So that's one thing and knock them off -- the money. The money comes in and they get a play 11% back to the program has got to go to rebuild the hobby -- and to take care of their infrastructure. Then I got to play the state and local taxes we've got to pay taxes. In an got to play if there's a credit cards that 3% charged for the credit card which is gonna run it to about 21%. And our pairs. That she's gonna deduct off the top if there's a critic -- B list is not. In that element of attitude -- his money. Now then the profit from the thing goes to 50000 dollar is that is that for the moment to our and the teachers they make seven if ascent. 65 or fifty cents and now. That's fiftieth out the rest of the money is going to bows to blather on the two friends of Weldon -- runs. And in -- now for the -- body shop and solitude to plaza keeps Google and the built so that's where the money's deal. I appreciate that we -- We have had a wonderful hour with warden Burl Cain 181000 acres she's in charge of 6200 men the gated community as he calls it. -- permanent open invitation to join us again thank you so much Burl -- Thank you. Stay with this we have another whole show talking with the sheriff strain in our next hour but first let's go back to Chris Miller in the newsroom.