We've had stories before where. Children have suffered immensely when the most minor degree of medical care not only would have saved their lives but it would of these are suffering for it and whatever Canada. A slow and painful death in the parents decided well you know what we're gonna pray over this child and and God's gonna heal them and to me it seems. You can look at. Maybe providing hospital as well and the American academy of pediatrics committee on bio ethics said that. Pediatricians and child abuse agency should step in when parents religious police keep kids -- yet necessary medical care. Ready jaguar painful list and you should government authority. Overrule override the religious beliefs of parents when it comes to treating sick child. Our guest joins us now doctor Arthur Caplan director of the medical ethics program. The NYU -- go any medical center in New York City pronounce it right. Lingo thank users doctor thanks taking time what does it tell us I guess before we get to the the recommendation how prevalent is something like. That's prevalent. Happens but -- career most parents absolutely wanted to -- everything and anything can. To help their children it's a small small minority to turn to alternative means of prayer rather than mainstream as -- perfect child. So what. Does the loss -- as it stands now -- vary from state to stated that a parent has a right to deny medical treatment of this is what they believe. The look pretty clear at every stage and it's into. There is proven treatment and is established. Like insulin for diabetes or antibiotics for a bacterial infection meningitis. You can go to court and get a judge to order. Treatment despite parental objection so that -- you know we take the rights of parents seriously you can get it approved by -- judge. But -- it is. Almost a 100% certain attitude has been ordered if you have a proven treatment that's experimental. Bullet so. Some of the stories you know we've we've talked about here and and we've seen and read. Sometimes they don't know that the child is that -- until it's too late and sometimes child. Terrible situation passes away at home on is there any way. To be more pro active -- hurt to have any kind of indication hi would you do if -- going -- and house. Did that well neighbors and others friends have to be vigilant conceded Trout seems to be very sick suffering in bed -- nothing's happening. Listen to what apparently trying. Those bone chips -- where you get an -- but you're absolutely right. There's no guarantees that medicine is going to be able to get there in time for that child is get diabetes. Where the child to picked up the terrible infection when somebody says something and there's no other way to do it. So in terms of this statement is that are those guidelines or are you looking in for some kinda tougher laws are. What exactly does statement call for. I think it says don't hesitate if you think you can save the life of the child really prevent terrible suffering. Head -- to court pediatricians. Do what you need to do to get that court order and you will get off the -- mining knowledge. Suffering job picture out someone's been as long long time hearing. That haven't -- alternative medicine and so -- Let the Health Department knows they can go out social services take a look see what's going. Remember to at the end of the day work with parents is you know trying to -- from parent to child. So sometimes you -- some collaboration and they can pray you can dilute the medicine. Appreciate your time doctor really do you have a great day pay my pleasure.