Well the new reports -- good senator Rand Paul from Kentucky you may be on the presidential ticket on the Republican side. In an interview and discuss cutting government benefits for unwed mothers who -- multiple. Children. He gave kind of warning in. Are doomed to poverty. India and that maybe communities in. And problem. Held -- possible that you more involvement from the government. And he -- quote maybe we have to say enough and shouldn't be having kids after us -- them. -- is currently distance of zero. Thirty point 9% of them was led by single mom were living in poverty in 2012. Compared to. Six point 3% Japan was led by a married couple. Sixteen point 4% and by selling off. To discuss this and veterans day and it 12 -- actual group called Michael and her senior fellow with the libertarian organization Cato Institute you particulars. In the his studies on. Health Care Reform so where -- policies solutions security. Michael welcome back to the -- always appreciated the -- Sunday. Some jumped up and it's well suited to ran got a very good point and we're gonna do. -- Will certainly impact they'd actually already have the ability to limit welfare payments soon or additional out of wedlock children as part of the 1996. Welfare reform act. It. That the what. Local -- cap that said essentially that states can deny additional benefit. Either -- more than a certain number of children or if children born after the families receiving. While they're up forty states. Have some sort of family cap. Yeah I'd three medalists it's. 1997. It was nineteen states. -- co authors on the particulars. It's. One lady unions and on and I'm looking at and oops and I'm ms. Ingraham and it's an emotional debate. Where there single women. Ago were having children -- -- you could support him actors it's. Been. This is spam account sixes in the Mets lose to Portland. That have more children goal entries are chipped and deprivation. The statistics. Agency. Don't suggest that work so looking at the right. Well they did that mixed bag in terms of whether or not work tidbits about evident from some state to show that it has then that's contradictory evidence and -- -- in the -- -- that there are two factors in plate and to really be -- determined. I'll I'll be -- and to relate. We should note that miraculous that we have additional children we don't categories. -- you know it -- hero of some. -- gets pregnant you're working. You don't automatically get an increase in did what to bring home -- Make a decision about whether or not you're gonna make that money go further and it to require the same thing of people are taxpayers supported. All the -- to be a good thing. We also know in the larger context that the evidence is fairly strong bet there's a relationship between availability of welfare and out of wedlock birth generally. We know that for example or -- back to Charles Marie and losing ground in the years in the eighties and then have been there's been about sixteen major studies that have shown some sort of corporation. Hard to prove causation but there's certainly increased some evidence to support. Let -- maliciously edited so 100%. Men and women federal Welker hear about -- the captaincy. -- and I'm not having your children but the ones that I read about in probably bring it forward and abuse of women that did get pregnant. Did know about it. And worry and financial analyst rates. And they and they all said the same thing you know he knew about it with cement -- some of anything so mom and didn't. Wasn't concentrating. It was one time thing was an accident. For the children that are coming out of the of the family cap in the day. Don't get welfare that you can do. What do we do with him would dude Europe food banks have to increase food or do we end up taking them. In some of the social program what happens to. Well I don't think bill would probably have to step up and help them on the other hand we're built we're not talking about taking away the entire welfare check from the -- -- we're suggesting they don't get an additional benefit. So let's assume they were getting 700 dollars when Adam -- to children from the team and program. It it is of course they're getting a number -- -- programs as well just to protect what they are getting by 600 dollars a month. From that program. They have an additional child. In both places including Louisiana they would get additional money. But Bullock -- yet. Another ninety dollars a month. What he's suggesting that they don't get that additional -- it now it is sampled about what they had before which might be tight but the same applies to the -- Breeding says. Economic concern in the film we kept in relatively good weekly loss of additional benefits that across the nation. Typically to amount to about seven dollars a month after the laws to that income is mitigated to some extent. By an increase in bruised and triggered by the news trial and what you're talking about it. The person and -- -- said and or try -- change most fundamentally. Biologically programmed -- of human being by waving forty dollars a month that. Yeah I didn't hit a pretty weak sanctions and and -- that -- the evidence has been pretty mixed about it. It if you were to take away much larger about the money go back into the amount that they already were getting for example rather than just denying new benefits. You might have more of an impact. But it. You know they had even a mild impact seem to suggest that that there's some except to that it -- quote it you can decreased beat down -- About what are you will decrease poverty in the long run. Aren't -- taking a break come right back since Euro. Rand Paul. Came I think it was yesterday. And basically said may be honored Anderson and about women that are being. Aware of cocoa while -- ruling. Well while the public citizen having too many children should buy into play well and way. To limit the number. Turns out 1997. A pavlik was approved in nineteen states -- Lincoln about working. And answer your questions and comments have been. It was called troops -- 018. Celebrity tool for aids exits aided and 70. Thing is it's got -- should should it should be done and do you think the leak out. Idea is a good side. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- During an interview he talked about coding government and for unwed mothers who have multiple children. It's that maybe you should say and of she shouldn't have anymore kids hampers certain amount. And when congress and it could. Have no one's done that. When do losers pulled this up in 1997. New policy known -- definitely cap was put in place. 1950s. And the captain -- additional benefits children conceived and warned that. While -- or receiving public says. We we have whether it's talk about Michael Taylor. Whether -- Winston to. He specializes Social Security will serve so of welfare policy of reform and uncle Michael. Michael a look at Massachusetts. Note they've got -- of them kept no discernible. Rates. Will -- recipients. -- -- Virginia. That being percent decline in Arizona a 6%. Decline in Mississippi. 40%. Decline. New Jersey you 15% compliant. Decline in new New Jersey. This -- implemented apparently kept the same time that tomb of the zone welfare. They must. Work or -- training or education. Of their youngest -- two years or older. -- conflicting numbers. No effect at all others huge affects others. At least noticeable. Would what you think -- Let's dated a lot of moving parts would be Pete is part of it depends on despises the the -- Cut back problem and not those cutbacks could be offset by other benefits. In Arizona for example one think they did was they have a cut in the benefits you get the additional child. But they also -- -- larger income disregard which allow you to go to work and earn your own money to make up for that different so all of these things may have had an impact. What do you think Mississippi shows 45%. Had no idea what they did to be out of that it may be because the welfare benefits are quite Laurel, Mississippi to begin would -- the lowest in the nation. And so even a small decrease -- could have a significant impact the decision making process. When you -- a lot of moving parts in this debate. The the landslide national center or health statistics. And it's a cross country and actually Bertha reached dropped 7%. Between 1990 and 1995. Brought about the time this this spam would cap was was going into. Being implemented over the same period in the rate dropped 17%. For black women who -- disproportionately. Represented in welfare population. So did it could be birth bridge just dropping for some unknown reason I. That that's absolutely true it certainly could we also build that would you look at the impact of available -- all our benefit overall. Opt out of wedlock birth -- they have tended to have big greater impact on one recipients -- that African American recipient overall. And don't really knows the reason for the. Did you always hear this story. Of whites blacks browns not too -- the Asian population. About. Young people having children and turning them over to the parents -- -- bring. And when the questions I have let's -- We -- puts and the Pamela cap. And it says in Americans have since to a young woman -- -- any child after two. You're not getting welfare report -- gives it to grandparents. Does that negate. What family captain trying to do it. Well it would. Did you eligibility. To -- by the trial generally as a -- not eligible for well for themselves the eligibility would attach the child. Would all depend on how well we wrote the law at the -- whether that money would call child and I. That we we talked about it earlier threat of losing forty bucks -- month than extra benefits. -- is not exactly. Put fear and somebody even if their own Welker and women are brought about that are that are struggling to pay bills. They live in neighborhoods. -- violence and a lot of men aboard prisons in and out of jail. Is that do you think hundred no circumstance and being told that you could get forty dollars less that be get pregnant. Really it is much of control. You know I really don't think the forty -- is going to make that much difference especially in the short term what their needs to be sort of a consciousness changing. In the entire community. And that would occur of course depending all the time depending on the signals used sent I do think sending -- signal that. While you get pregnant we'll take care of view that one signal and other he did it very different one to the community. If you say look if you get pregnant you're going to be struggling. A lot more did you mark today. I think that that that the different signal and they'll be a lot of different conversations around the dinner table a lot of houses. Of the polls have found one in the -- that promotes that conservatives. By in this whole lot more appealing than liberal. But won't this kind of family kept. Convince a lot of women have abortions and that's the intent to -- as a conservative beliefs. Yeah Europe aptly -- on now. By the raiders Sunday edited yet that what would happen is that the women would be more likely to to have an abortion to bring the child to charm. And he failed to offer a bit benefits in total. How about those that say you're you're part of you publishing and Anderson -- -- there's topics and that the other and we're all boats. Publishing that child that we let them competent in a society which they believe the state will take care of them. We know that there are more like pleaded not on welfare and themselves we know the more likely to have diminished work ethic when they grow up. It's not every tape of course but just statistically overall. It urged them -- they're going to be poorer. And struggling more than. So. Wondered about my starting your numbers surge capability to play -- I've read this blue and I didn't know anything about -- cap. And I definitely didn't know this it says it uses. Actually abuses out of into London. A newspaper says. Many governors in the United States political fortunes -- and losing on that success of welfare -- reported today and champion. States that successfully draw down out of wedlock birth rates without increasing abortions. And win as much as 25 million dollars in the year in the and illegitimacy. Bonus. Created in the federal welfare law. And actively -- which would have been thinking and unity. And official -- and scramble. Everything McCain and win the money is that. At that. At that the only correct. There are some weaknesses and analogue -- -- state can gain net a little bit it has to do -- the percentage of the total welfare populations so that it view a drop the annual world number of people underworld where Walter signature economy improving. You don't have to do much security outlook block or two to win -- to win the prize. But but yes there -- -- the state to do that. Every new views and I didn't state won the twenty -- -- It is that something that would be a -- awarded every year that they met certain -- It all year. And get in trouble for even raising this question. A number of women that were interviewed who said look tried from our and this tool oh. I've heard about the pan captain and I'm going to. Struggled if you buy one more child but. It was one time it's -- accident and play and it. And three of them says that I just finally get to the -- grabbed my -- -- saw it and it's no longer a problem. Should the federal government consider. Paying a bullet after certain for a. Or I would I would be -- We did that in getting all the that is too good too much history of abuse -- -- back to sterilization debate. That took place. Well did it. It's last century. I think at that the dangerous thing for the federal government to get into. I don't know that if we give them more money but I do think -- subsidizing Ottawa where the -- the government shouldn't be involved in either. Michael general always learn something where have you -- of really appreciated to Tom good talk and you have agreed. All right take a break from -- that went -- but Michael was with the kid when Schuettler of entering couldn't -- the organization. We're gonna talk to blow policy expert prompting congress and liberal organization. Right after the news. Do you think is this set well with the U Gibbs called of them.