WWL>Topics>>2-12-14 2:10pm Angela: on the Nagin verdicts

2-12-14 2:10pm Angela: on the Nagin verdicts

Feb 12, 2014|

Angela discusses the 20 guilty verdicts in the Ray Nagin trial with Tulane law professor Tania Tetlow and WWL news director Dave Cohen.

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Automatically Generated Transcript (may not be 100% accurate)

Well a major day in the history of New Orleans is -- and found guilty on twentieth 21 corruption counts. He's been given home incarceration he will be sentenced in the next sixty to ninety days. I'm so glad that so many of you were calling in and we are absolutely going to get to your calls. I'd first like to introduce so -- attempt -- who is a law professor at Tulane university and we're so appreciative of you joining us and let me get get your thoughts right off the -- Well. It is pretty content -- raining again it's definitely looking at sentencing guidelines on. All one tiny fraction to conduct about probably. Somewhere close to or maybe even exceeding twenty years. Long long time for. But many people around the city you're saying why didn't he just take a deal. Right well I'm sure he's wondering that too but it's harder on the assignment. To wrap your mind around just going to prison and I think that that was the problem here. Not Tania let me take a couple of callers -- Roger you've been on. The line for a long time your thoughts. -- -- And you know it is really in this being older because you know -- media. Capital Tallinn to. The same type the corruption that. A lot of affairs as well as car politicians. Are all fall into because I guarantee from the long and hold -- -- and even Powell Colin politician you'll find something. -- I would just hope there are people like these blue origin the people who. We're so long to expose our originate in which I'm a definitive if you do generate. He deserves what he did. I just would do look long and or an affront to cases like the -- debris situation. And a young man who was murdered and his body bar and an antibiotic you walked away Scot free and you. Don't -- is bothering me and. You know -- -- very good point and those cases I think bother a lot of people. But they're only so many reporters and reporters have a huge responsibility. And I think that not just believes our -- some of the newspaper reporters certainly some of the channel four at the working for years on these pieces. They're all equal in the sense that they're wrong. And that's really what you're saying. I really appreciate you calling Roger and I really appreciated that held the -- held Johnson and. In the cases that he brings up war largely brought to the public's attention and perhaps to prosecutor's attention by. Report reporters you know we're learning tidbits of information about a body being found her skull being found in a car in Algiers that later turned out is the this big case that did go to trial. So. You know we we did we do we can't do expose all this but. United brings up the much larger question how much is their out there that is not exposed and is that a good thing that rain against corruption was exposed prosecuted and convicted and think most people we've talked to say absolutely yes. Well and the fifth time in and I can say that while on the Henry clever cases. Really kind of done at this point the Danziger bridge case but still being retried that the and it's got any trial that was based on. That -- -- -- dot com blocking controversy by at this defendant will face another trial. Let me ask you something Tanya. One is gonna assume that Ray Nagin will appeal this under what conditions could he appeal it is there a technicality. I'm -- -- any big issues that he will be able to hang its hat on repeal also has. Lawyers will power over the trial transcripts in the pretrial rulings to look for. Errors of law but to think about that -- -- is that she is. Very careful to protect defendants' rights and that makes it harder -- that defendants and convicted. Just fine mistakes that -- -- made. Com did you feel that it was the correct move to do the home incarceration verses. Jail while you were on appeal. It it's a compromise and sometimes. Especially my collar cases where. If there's been no issue of the person Celine. Opted not to be. That -- on bond until their sentencing anyway so in some ways it was -- more harsh than I'm used to do. Kay Gonzales someone of our callers you have thought tournament. -- from Gonzales. Hello to. So I'm mighty he's going to get home and actually kid and then they -- -- club -- Well but that's yet to be seen her take some of those federal prisons. May have that thought but in reality I've talked to some people spent time there they're not club man. Well and to get the moved minimum security federal prison sentence would have to be less than ten years and that does not seem in any way shape or form likely in this case and I could just very quickly after breaking news from federal court right now while we wait to see if former New Orleans Mayor now convicted former New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin speaks. -- he's still in the courthouse but in that same court house. Doctor Peter Galvin the former coroner saint Tammany parish had just been sentenced to two years 24 months to years. In federal prison. And he must pay a 5000 dollar fine and a 193000. Dollars in restitution to the coroner's office we have in North Shore corruption case that has just come to. It's closure in federal court Peter Galvin two years in prison must pay restitution and fines and. And that is an example of somebody who pled guilty and so I think he could've gotten upwards of five years so perhaps a little wisdom mayor. Again looking at the evidence they had to not just say I'm guilty. Give me that the police second yet but two years is still a long time for someone who's never been there. Tonya. Yes. Back to. The -- were you surprised that it was. One as quick as it was and two that it was funny out of 21 counts. Debt no not really means that the government's case seem to need to be pretty overwhelming and at that point the jury needs to take the time to go through the law apply -- to the facts and make sure their own agreements. Have you don't just take one vote and issue a verdict I'm and so that would take at least. There's several hours that it did. But at that point the stronger advocates -- from the shorter -- the deliberations are. And as to not believe in one town and some is that can be a sign of good state dietary and makes it easier to uphold the conviction on appeal the fact that they distinguish them on the count. As the jury did the Edwards case as well and found one thing that they didn't think was quite proved. We had one caller who was sang a broken down to essentially twenty minutes per count but. Again these people have been living with this information the entire time they've been sitting on the -- Well and it's not it's not that you analyze it by each count it's basically that several different schemes their for a five of them. And then each scheme corresponded with several counts if you believe that there is bribery. Then you would necessarily also convict on wire fraud so it's it's not that they would discuss each count for twenty minutes pathetic he believed that the -- bribes to. Naked than you would necessarily convict on the conspiracy and the bribery count and the wire fraud count and applied to debt that -- Let's take another caller Janice. Until. I was sleeping. And when I woke up a particular line. And and I decided to content Shelby can -- -- the end and you come off screen that told me and I cannot be happy particularly at this historic day in the city of New Orleans. I am not bad. I am happy -- look at this today in the first time because I really thought that it was a good country and I had a lot of hope. For the city with him he disappointed me. He was one of the most arrogant cocky people. Just about that that I haven't seen. He felt that he can do what you want to get by with for some reason. And I am so happy that the justice was there today that is that god -- god knows that god. We advocate -- -- some -- somehow. It got -- which when we diet now what Alba. And I'm just happy that this man is not gonna -- completely out of this. Thank you very very much for calling Jews -- thank you Arthur you have a different opinion. Yes I do you think fervent about. Indicated on black -- -- have a very good job and that comets. I've been the -- on that -- these are so full that he. She is he. Not. Only can beat them. All -- get that most them. So. Shall be convicted and not. All Eric Bolton in our attitude so. Why -- -- law I'll tell you. Very intelligent. He was small so I have well. It was an immediate need. It did an unbelievable. It's like. Me. And not about. It. Don't get it would. Well one year. Influences by -- -- literally the bank. She's doing. It don't. You have a -- Would it. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- the government can put whatever. It is often need to. And mine. Bedecked. -- people. With people and it is quite right. Arthur again I appreciate you taking the time to -- as well what do we take another break we're gonna come back we have -- to upload from Tulane university and we'll have others calling in. On what is happened in the history of New Orleans today. Right after -- guilty on twenty of 21 corruption counts Ray Nagin is going to go to prison. Not Tonya tableau is our special guess she is a professor of law at Tulane University. And are also joined by rough field -- -- who heads up the metropolitan crime commission. And Raphael appreciate very much for calling in as well thank you what kind of role did your organization hand in this trial. The world that we we it is the role that we're created to fulfill. 62 years ago when we were established. And that role is to serve as a conduit by which people in the community that have information about wrongdoing. That either don't know where peppering it or maybe are reluctant to bring it to directly to law enforcement. It's because so in the fall of 2011 we were contacted. And interviews individuals that alerted as to how. Granted it was transferred from mr. for dollars. Tampa credit facility and delivered. To the stone age granite in the world it's. So we were able to find a witness that -- explicit direct instructions. From mr. fraternal. And was responsible for transporting in the granite. From Tampa which was taken from a facility purchased. By mr. -- And then loaded on a couple of tractor trailers and delivered it to stone each green it. So before that mr. Abdullah was under indictment. For securities fraud in Dallas and he wasn't cooperating with the government. So. That witness. And be information that was generated from that interview. Enable the government to ago independently. Cooperate. And document the -- transfer from Tampa two in the world and they confronted Christopher dealt with that. And he elected to. Plead guilty. And the crime commission's role was acknowledged in the Department of Justice press release in the summer when he twelve. When he is guilty plea was announced. And his information. Was critical in moving this case. Forward against and -- mayor Nagin when mayor Nagin was indicted. In January 2013 in the crime commission's assistance. Was noted in and at the back end of the Department of Justice Presley's. So what we've -- mail in disclosing this is emphasized to the public. The important role that they play. In changing the way business is -- and holding public officials accountable that are responsible for betraying the public trust. There's nothing special about the crime commission as far as being. Investigators. Because we didn't investigate this we've accepted. The information that would supplies to woods. That wasn't going to surfaced in any other way. And we facilitated the flow of that information in the hands of law enforcement to independently cooperated in expanded upon. The information that we supplied them. In default 2011. To hold the former mayor of the city of New Orleans accountable for patrolling the public trusts so mrs. Really more than a victory for the federal government. Or even the people of the world -- this as a victory for the people of Louisiana. And recognizing that they have information. And they reported something -- it will be done about it so that's. This message reinforces. The role that the general public please. In combating corruption and at any level anywhere and we. You know it's very interesting to hear him saying this because I think there is just such a wariness. In our community for this kind of behavior going way back and I'm not talking about -- raining. But there is the sense. We I know that but what good is it gonna do and lectures saying -- a lot of good can do. Well I think there's been a quantum shift in the public's. Attitude towards corruption particularly post-Katrina. And if you look at some of the public corruption cases that are emerged -- post-Katrina. Just and in the congress is special for 62. Years. And just since 2009. There have been twenty to either elected or appointed public officials. -- have been convicted of felony corruption related charges. As a result of information that was provided to the crime commission. And I think the public now recognizes. That the could be key to combating corruption. Starts with a reflection that they cease staring back at them and beer. And information is being supplied to. To the crime commission at levels I've never seen before and -- the government is receiving information from from sources that they never received before. And I think the public now recognizes their rule. In the fight to change the way. Politics and government it is it is conducted in Louisiana and the most important. A player in the fight against public corruption -- the people that have access to information. And that now they're more willing than ever reported -- to help these so. It's ironic. That is. Flurry of corruption conviction that's really good sign that things are getting better even can make it look worse in the national craft bank. It is very hard for the government to make these cases without the kind of cooperation. Step -- talking about that the FBI can't just. Come up with a lot of talent it needs people brave enough to where wired to turn over evidence. To cooperate. And until you have that. You see how hard it is in the trial like that that's how much evidence have to be collected in order to convict somebody beyond a reasonable doubt in the Africa added. And unless you have people bring that to come forward you're never gonna get past that we had a -- that. Post-Katrina and awaited I hope and I believe represent the cleaning of house that they have very different now. Angela -- interject reckless -- just like you know it appears that Ray Nagin and his attorney Robert thank Kenseth completed filling out the paperwork meeting with the US marshals in the federal courthouse where Nagin was just convicted a couple of hours ago. We may be hearing from -- and or Robert Jenkins very shortly if that happens we'll bring it to you live right here on WW. Okay thank you -- very much. To both of you -- I think part of the sadness of this is that in factoring naked in particular. Ran on sort of a good government I'm going to be a different kind of person and then turned out to be that. Like a top Chinese brought up upon a point about how it's sort of expand it. In that it is upsetting to the general public to hear this type of betrayal of the public trust. And -- -- too many of these cases -- exposed particularly post-Katrina ranging from -- pricing Vanderbilt to judge crested in Saint Bernard. To build operate in saint John the Baptist parish. Aaron Broussard in the and so with his subordinates and Jefferson Parish showing that corruption doesn't -- any political geographic. -- boundaries and all of this can be anywhere. But the good news is that. This information is now surfacing and if it hadn't surfaced that doesn't mean that any of these people would have been any more honest it is what it meant. That the Broussard and the prices and the concepts. In all of those other people including Ray -- were getting away with it. And then not getting away with that anymore and there's no later qualified the deterrent effect that the science. But unquestionably. It's having a deterrent effect. We're never going to be able to put a number on it. But people well recognized is that there if you're thinking about crossing the line if your public official the chances -- view being. Identified and discovered in held accountable are great at that day. Then ever before in unquestionably. This type of case is going to deter other people that are may be toying with the idea. Betraying the public trust the way mayor Nagin. Allen -- were absolutely correct -- point I can't thank you enough for joining us a stay with this Tonya we're going to take a quick break into the newsroom. WW on the news director -- -- we are now watching mayor Ray Nagin and his attorney Robert Jenkins as they watch club while closer to the microphones. And it's not clear if they're going to stop -- appear to be walking past the microphones. And walking a way. From the assembled media. It does not appear we're going to be here let's see if we can every government in talking as he is walking way Robert Jenkins his attorney right now. Here man this is really a serious. It's a chaotic scene outside of the courthouse where we have some people apparently protesters hollering. Has the former mayor of New Orleans now convicted on twenty of 21 counts walking away from the courthouse. Headed back to his attorney's office which is just a couple of hundred yards away. It appears that Robert Jenkins is saying some things but it's very difficult for all the reporters to get close enough to hear what he is saying that's it we would listen and again ensemble cast with WW LTV. Clearly you can hear the reporters asking him questions that we yet here. -- that's an issue. And fancy talk and -- -- And I went apparently former New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin has nothing to say. As he walked away he is stoned -- he is staring directly in front of him despite. Dozens of reporters cameras microphones swarming around him he's not saying a word and his expression remains extremely. Solemn. But nondescript he has he is expressing very little he is saying absolutely nothing as he now walks away. From the federal courthouse in downtown New Orleans following his conviction and Angel hill if he indeed does say something or if we do get his attorney Robert Jenkins the -- We'll come back and -- Absolutely and I'm looking at that picture and it is a great stone face and as we heard earlier. One on one knee. The guilty pleas were mentioned. On his wife sort of softly cried and I think all of -- have sort of looked as the only video we've ever had is them walking into court every day. And you just looked at such a sad face on her he was you know himself. But she'd just always looked so very sad. She is at his side now yeah. I in fact it's Ray Nagin and his -- -- -- than his attorney Robert Jenkins they're walking side by side by side. Her if she appears to have now put on a more. Stern face a face of little expression as well as they walk away from the courthouse we understand that she did at one point in the courtroom expressed some emotion. -- at one point her husband has left the courtroom. And she was left there and his defense team some of the other attorneys were. Trying to comfort her and I think Robert Jenkins is is going to speak. It's. You know. -- and Robert Jenkins is saying very little if anything to. Reporters as he walks away and it you can you know it's just so such a chaotic things that nine million press hurting all round. You have the woman screaming in the background and -- protest or whatever. Still screaming. And when catcher with that what she's screaming. -- more her or else. They -- Osama casting their feet from WW LTV. And now they are probably about a block away from the courthouse as they continue to be mobbed by camera operators reporters. And members of the public. And as you can hear the one woman screaming. And following maybe ten feet behind Ray -- and she continues to. Holler and scream. Her. -- her thoughts and feelings as they continued on the street. You almost wonder if that it wouldn't have been wiser for Robert Jenkins just come out. -- addressed the press and then quietly another time take the Megan's. Away. Now he has consistently this is the model he's followed throughout this trial every day when he derived and he slapped. He's had maybe twenty to thirty seconds of comment in response to reporters' questions. As he walks to -- from the courthouse he has not held a news conference -- say to this point. And he is not shared expansive thoughts about the case. And apparently he's following that model once again today. And has very little thing to say other than the confirmed that they do you plan to appeal. What's not clear is on what grounds that he may appeal on behalf of now convicted former New Orleans Mayor Ray -- Tonya -- low -- law professor from Tulane. All the time that has been spent. From the convictions to now when it's probably been one over an hour well over an hour. Has been paperwork. I'm bright seller American beyond home incarceration. Need to. Checking in with probation probably needed to Marshall about how apple work and it's a lot paperwork that. And the process of filing an appeal is that done immediately or. Or why. There it. There's a period during -- She needs to violently -- thirty days from the conviction final but not actually after the sentencing conviction that computer final. That won't happen right away by it. It gets one page notice that your to appeal on the hard court chipped up schedule breaching in getting a trial transcript. So anybody can appeal which really have to appeal on. For for reasons and I think the question has been on on what conditions would that appeal be made. Right you have to usually appeal that the procedures and the rules of the game how to refereeing the trial -- and action you can appeal. They idea that there wasn't enough evidence produced to convict GP on the reachable I really can't -- networking in this case -- -- generally to keep out court. I'm very differential jury's gonna come to America the -- they're just looking for chanting going on in the rule in in the trial -- But for those who did testify -- the five people who are under indictment for various reasons. Babel and I was listening to check for right that they can get there senses a three level reductions when he called three level reduction. Is there any way or anything. That Ray Nagin can do to reduce his sentence. It pretty -- after the act and use -- -- care who who could also even after sentencing Scott has happened tricky Dickie had. Testified in this trial he might get that he probably eager Q but the government didn't meet him -- they didn't do paper. Goods and -- with these -- cooperated some other case and ask for a credit even after he advantage -- you concede that. But it's it's nothing compared issues. That kind of deal people get on the front and cooperate not just in the reduction and arms and got on Matt -- street street level thing going to be -- to. US attorneys recommend something and then ranked in the tech industry that side where it -- -- to do. At that point. Toward the cooperation. But also in terms of limiting -- -- -- The guilty -- people were leading 21 count with a maximum penalty that the judge not and the ago old arch. Care to. Make a case where it at a maximum penalty that well over guideline of what it this year. And on the contrary Angela we have several of our experts have told us the fact that Ray Nagin took the stand. And I. Exposed him to the potential for an even longer sentence if the judge believes that he lied on the stand. Could that not professor count against him and lead to a longer sentence now that he did take the stand and under oath testify -- things that the judge may or may not believed to be. Life. Capture you can get an extra cute points under the guidelines for structure that -- it to you I'll lie on the stand for the judge will have to. A bird that testimony in and think about that at any possibility that in mind the twenty directly contradicted the jury verdict could likely -- at that point. It always seemed as if Ray Nagin believed Ray Nagin. That these. These were investments not bribes that they were investing in stone age. And whether one can convince oneself or something like that I don't know. But. I've been defendant do it -- -- I've had -- -- -- -- I believe sincerely operator that and and I do absolutely beyond a doubt that they were LT. I think people get content from -- and -- pat and I think. -- up politically with. Mayor Nagin was that his -- she forwards are using to tighten up the Catholic -- actions that impact loosening them in the end it. He was beyond question -- He didn't need to be policed and not -- because no one should ever doubt his integrity. Comment some of that same she came across and maybe. Leading him down on pack of thinking that it was -- -- he was doing it and then believing that he would come out tactic here. Tanya thank you very much stay with this every one and I'm really appreciate your calls a -- to continue to call to give Fisher thoughts but we'll take another break we'll be right back. Good afternoon this is Dave -- in the WWL news center on the day that former New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin was convicted on twenty of 21 corruption counts in federal court he had this to say he left the courthouse moments ago. In my -- Yeah. -- I maintain my innocence. That was the entirety of what the former mayor had to say as he left the courthouse and headed to his attorney's office alongside him as Robert Jenkins is the Cutler who had this to say. It's CNN normal patient -- -- -- probably an appeal with the making of that total. Big. With the timeline for the deal with the well the first Vietnamese. And we -- we're prepared. The former mayor saying he maintains his innocence his attorney saying they're preparing for an appeal. That's sound courtesy of WW LTV I'm Dave Cohen now backed Angela. And Tonya tableau are of legal analyst from Tulane Law School. You heard those comments. The only thing that the mayor said was I maintain my innocence and his attorney said in essence were prepared for the appeal. One that says to me frankly they could see the handwriting on the wall if they're already prepared. The next step at a time there's a conviction but I don't think that you keep the -- suddenly. Confessing his guilt threat after a bit. -- are no matter what happens. Somebody commented. That you know was it right to put him on the stand. Not an somebody commented it wasn't wrong that they put him on the stand it was how his demeanor wise on the student that was at issue. Well that's the tricky part from everything that I read the development in the courtroom. Each key was. Dearly and he was charming all of which -- -- like you're not worried about being convicted in May be here and different but it alpha team very -- anti -- and and that's not the trick is about many hours to maintain that demeanor and -- were actually in the careful how you structure well. And -- tried to convince twelve men and women that you are innocent and all of that out patent against app. Difficult for anybody. But we're gonna take a quick caller. Trish. -- Element until my daughter and I were wondering if there was any chance that he didn't choose to collaborate because. In -- of Connecticut sun life in jeopardy if she did cooperate. That's a very interesting question and there are certainly those who thought all along that perhaps the sun and as all the information came out. The suns were receiving the money should they have been part of this but that's a very interesting comment Tonya do you have a thought on that. Might guess that that's probably more likely to have been in the opposite that the government would -- in the deal where they. Promise not to indict the sun and it is -- -- -- had -- guilty I can't imagine that they bought it. -- war came to cooperate against his son he's been even much thicker. -- and the son's bar and it's an understanding that. It very difficult relatives cooperate and each other and it kind of -- him to the government to ask that you have virtually in their co conspirators. And I think keep -- He broke dies on the idea that they didn't have enough evidence to indict the -- and he made it activated cheese to go forward on the ground. I doubt that they have to cooperate against them. -- I appreciate your call very much and I appreciate our other caller stay on we'll be right back this is Angela under the W. I -- -- Tonya Tut looks so much for the last hour in in the next hour we're going to be joined by Tim meant she was another legal analyst. Think my caller stay with this I wanna know your opinion as well.