WWL>Topics>>2-12 3:10pm Nagin trial roundtable

2-12 3:10pm Nagin trial roundtable

Feb 12, 2014|

Angela is joined by Clancy Dubos, Tim Meche, David Hammer, Paul Murphy, Chick Foret and Robert Jenkins to discuss guilty verdict

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Automatically Generated Transcript (may not be 100% accurate)

Guilty on twenty of 21 corruption counts charges involving bribery conspiracy and tax -- former New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin. Will be going to jail. It's still resonating with all of us I think even though we have paid attention to the newspaper we listened on television and radio. There was a great preponderance of evidence against him. It is still shocking to hear those words the first mayor of New Orleans who will be going to prison for corruption. We are now joined by Tim mentioned was a legal analyst and Tim you were also a criminal defense attorneys correct. Yes now I can't. Vote. I'm just curious and I want all of our wonderful listeners who have called in to stay with this is we're going to get TU. But as a criminal defense attorney what would you have to. That's one of the better questions that. By anybody covering this trial and answer as a whole lot more. Not a lot has been by the journal covering the -- but the truth of the matter is mayor Nagin presented ending rather oblique. Poor decision. The cross examination. Of the witnesses. Was extremely short and lacking. It could have been a whole lot more done and to impeach the witnesses. All of whom hating credible credibility problems. On there was and there are basically no -- present -- -- mayor and taken testament. The government presented to expert witnesses who of course when it's justified favorably for the government anytime that happens. It's incumbent upon the dissidents to present their own experts and I think they could've found experts to contradict. What the government experts said they did not do that. As a criminal defense attorney and I have no love lost for mayor Nagin but as a criminal defense attorney it's painful. To watch. Someone especially this high profile case though there were trawl. And basically not have been afforded. A credible. And he didn't get it. On what basis would you think he's going to appeal and they are. We're going to be hard because. European although he's based on the issues you may need. During the pretrial process and his attorney did not create that mediation. I don't think it was a very much pretrial motion practice. To speak. During the trial I don't think there without meaning -- -- objections. It's going to be very very hard the only thing that may happen. Is yet additional. Information emerges concerning the blocking K. Activities of the US attorney's. And if information surfaces show in higher ups in that also is. And that's somehow connected. To the decision to indict mayor Nagin and the presentation of evidence to degree injury. Or prosecutors. Who were involved in this case or later shelled to have participated in that illegal activity. That may give him and the issue which -- something like that I don't think he has -- change appeal. As an attorney. Ray Nagin is a very charismatic man period. Would you have suggested -- -- on the stand. He had no choice because lord in Brazil that would. Come and by the time captivity and they put on a couple of witnesses that a code lasted maybe fifteen minutes. And there was not nobody else to put all that he had to take the sting in my opinion at that point. But what he did do was put on other witnesses took -- -- testament for instance he said that the city attorney's. Gave him advice to do certain things well like he called the attorney. He said that his secretary was the one who removed. Items on his calendar and made the decision to do that will -- called -- -- witnesses. I mean under the circumstances he had to testify. But that's because of the position he was putting and by his descendants. -- -- We we've gone so much with those. The what you call the the five people who testified who we're trying to lessen their own sentences. But but there were also 21 other people who testified who had nothing in the game. No question the government present great case. Matt Coleman Rick -- greatly mortars. I worked against them men in a lot of respects form and they. Worked on this case probably exclusively for -- you know last year or so and the government had an airtight case. And that's all the more reason why the defense should -- -- in it a better dissidents because there was so much more they could have and that they didn't do an I don't know it was a question of the lack of money your resources. Sometimes it's lack of we old. Home quite frankly sometimes the lack of competency. And they just -- him. Step up to the plate like the government. And. Would you have recommended. Keep going back to that. Going on the stand because I think for the general public. Who read the comments it was sort of his demeanor on there. On the stand that was detrimental to him. And so it's it's a trick bag you have somebody who is articulate and bright and charismatic and at the same time he can shoot himself in the foot. Yeah like that and Donald and -- any choice because of the position could mean they had no witnesses he had to testify. Other question of recommending a one of the there's certain. Decisions that the ABA standards of responsibilities. Say criminal defense attorney cannot make you have to leave the decline wanted to -- plead guilty not guilty. One is whether or not to have a trial by jury Europe by judge and the others whether or not -- testified that the decision -- slow -- Left up to decline you can make recommendations. Which you should do harper as an attorney. Is practice. Would decline. Rehearse. I've had cases where are brought here and other. Criminal defense orders east used a white physicians credit that she would cross examine my clients before put them staying -- -- and you really have to spindles -- our practicing sometimes he used jury consultants. And they make pointers in the name. And they explain to the witness you know not -- look what type of demeanor. -- -- They did that in this case up. It -- to me just got -- appear in his lip in America just like he conducted himself when he was mayor gave that chocolate city speech nobody. Q would he -- he wouldn't appeared to got a beard did it and I suspect that approach. This taken listing and in this case. We're gonna take a couple cultural quick if you don't mind him. Sherry you've been holding on for a long time I appreciate sheriff from Metairie. Thank you Angela I just get rich quick comment. What is I feel like justice was served in helping to -- that corruption. And I think that mayor Nagin is why and cunning but not very -- or he would -- taken a plea deal. And lastly I wonder if he is so that -- that you'll never had an abortion but between the public trust. Well is that we heard as he was walking out he said that he is maintaining his innocence. So I don't think he's there yet -- let -- but I do appreciate you calling beer in holding share that means a lot thank you. How about to Bobby ferment of. -- Very good shovel on top of their -- not go to my page order -- display your. An example. I -- you know about sort that would make it give credit. To your term result here pictures they stayed cool and composed. They had their guns loaded I don't really respected about upon the departure of the trial and had no comment. And that left with me sent a statement business and it still mean business and still move forward. To put asylum -- footprint on the corruption that has gone wrong orchard ball. Sock you respect for their and a commitment and your turn to our first -- in the ground -- -- such a great job. And I think that is echoed by many of the legal analyst I've been on listening to is how much they had done their homework. Ducks in a row very organized. And just to put the hours -- You're right you're exactly correct and not thank you through our broadcast -- -- -- during a drop. Thank you very much for calling and Tim I want you to stay with us and our other callers hang in there we'll get to you as we continue to discuss. The guilty verdicts of -- again. I'm Angela under the that -- -- Again it's twenty of 21 corruption counts guilty for former mayor Ray Nagin. We have Tim mesh our legal analyst on the line. But we are also joined by Clancy -- who is a legal analyst of course for channel four and is on a yeoman job this afternoon. You know I was listening to Clancy and I heard you makes a statement. We sell them up with this man when he first ran and then he broke our hearts. And I think that kind of capitalizes a lot of people's feelings the disappointment. That someone we had high expectations for. Just didn't meet them. Angela that's pretty much well prepared this. Part of what he stole hearts away and broke our way out in the level of the ornament as -- You know -- secular world we're in a long. The public if he had. Good job during the recovery. He could -- on national. He could be at the president's cabinet right now but at the end of the day after eight years in office this is separate apart corruption starts. Ray Nagin never really -- how do the mayor's job. Then you know I and others criticized him during his second term -- being engaged from the offers because didn't really know how to do it. He loved all the perks a lot of arguments. And I think that's kind of what led him down this path toward where he -- today. And now I think he got tired like a lot of politicians do they get out of the criticism civil -- government do this well shall and that's where they cross that line. Yeah you can use whatever metaphor you want -- crossed a group called it a number of all perhaps whatever. But they've they've got to pass that speaks to a place like this and that's what happened to Ray Nagin. You know I'm curious on your thoughts on the money issue. Because he did make the statement that he took an enormous cut in salary to -- -- and and that happens I mean if you're successful person. Which he was a Cox cable making a big salary. Now he's making a lot less. And he's sending his kids up and business and it all of a sudden not make enough money is that the motivation I just need money. Well in -- Only resonate in controlling for that question when it shocks you know our guys such as Decatur where it should be. Accounting degree heat. Past CPA exam -- Cox -- New Orleans and chairperson and not some guy -- just a lot turn up truck. And we say -- often about politicians who talk who complain about making more money. They knew what the salary was when he ran for the office just like it was some big surprise to them and making less money. So for him to use that excuse and eat into sales would. That outlook was just -- and I took a big cut in pay it would still make it will probably upper -- -- even as mayor. You know the mayor's job it would exactly it is critical were without power. That the average juror that movement anywhere near that. So in the that there whine about it to their content Perry. Well like Leona Helmsley complaining about corruption that the attacks or -- but it clearly does not play well the jury and you know which is its. It is underscored left about while America. It's all about them and only -- -- all about what he wants and what he field. -- -- -- when you're an empire state property of the public should post put your old feeling in all of needs. In your own desires. Second in both support. In -- of your constituents and the public first and that's the real estate -- in an appointment too much about race day and not about the citizens. Well the words that are are of importance -- -- public surface you're never gonna get rich on public service. I wonder unless you're trying to do things like this. Exactly and that's the problem he -- Serving the public. How much do you think that this kind of behavior was influenced by. Not what everybody perceived as a real issue post-Katrina that he really suffered mentally as many people to that is not a criticism. -- agree I think Oliver I'm sure I have so murderer. PG a day after Katrina -- outcome of the current system and ensure our crowd of people that go and cry such. Of everybody had those well what about people -- checked out Lambert Brooke gorgeous person in the two years. But you know what when you're the mayor you've got to man up and do the job you're not there for yourselves you know there -- that we got to be strong you can put your community. He wasn't. He was not. Just your final thoughts on what. His defense we've been talking to what Tim -- I think really it's very succinctly. Put not enough was done for his defense what would you have done. -- -- You called the legal analyst channel four on the political analysts and outlooks for two champions who -- about a -- and I bet between prince and there was data for trainer. And he's somebody that all its community and our neighborhood a lot of wonderful things about I don't know academic credits of up on the let people know that this this was standup guy. And out of for the -- -- -- legal and but -- just an observer I happen to have a lot of -- Lebanon criminal law but. I just stopped at. I would agree with the assessment -- but not enough was done with the -- chipotle have been. Acquittal -- -- out with -- talk about how brilliant Robert Jenkins defense work or to roll the dice will. The real mistake was not Jenkins they -- real mistake was made a mistake he should have taken the deal that was offered whatever it was. I can guarantee it's definitely -- now. And and Angela Park and -- in super thank you claim Syria and appreciate that. And it's not just me in this probably one of the most respected journalists in towns and think Jason -- has probably been on our show before insolent he has the ball cult the American zombie. And he attended the closing argument. And he wrote that of course he's no -- -- -- -- that in fact his investigation probably stored at well this years ago and definitely their. But he wrote that -- almost want to jump out of -- seat during closing argument in takeover because he was so appalled. At -- terrible or argument was and how much of a lack of the difference mayor Nagin was getting. -- -- somebody like him -- saying that I think he would. Demonstrate that that's actually happened. Intending to -- that Jenkins went in the tank. I think a lot my take on the rubber chickens a good lawyer. Yet so little to work. You know -- -- -- his client was being difficult and those dollars and you know whatever attorney client privilege and confidential but. I agree with it it didn't seem to be very clear to the but and in. In defensively as the jacket he has very little here and not to work. Disagree I think that it turned to work -- -- mean to witnesses against him were just atrocious for instance Greg my efforts. Cross examination to move by mr. Jenkins was may be what thirty minutes. In thinking here today. Any testing kept them on the stadium for a couple of days. He met first given us civil deposition that testified in a noble try -- testified. Contradicting themselves and later criminal trial. And there was all kind of stuff mr. -- had to work with that he did not use and I hate Dave Roberts different animal like Robert. But truth of the matter is. This will report. I'll defer to your attempt to hide your very diplomatic -- of senior gentlemen. And -- but I'm just. You know into last couple of truth and a lot of film and reporters to watch a -- talked to me privately they whispered these things. Nobody really come -- that it. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- I agree with that there are some things to -- -- -- stand because. He should produce war documents and resort filing and an argument to equal I would abroad in -- every contract that -- -- the -- -- the still the world. Paper concern of this evil contracts of -- and signed after Katrina. Their pick -- little bit hysterical here and that was well. Yeah it could have been because that would have been dramatic you know people like -- that would've remembered casual moment to literally have a couple of folks what actually took a contract. Which completely in India. Are. I'd love listening to both of you are really did you all could go on the road you are excellent. -- -- -- I've got to go to should undergo finished much commentary channel for a -- Thanks for me I'm the. So appreciative. And I want please Tim used at thank you Clancy -- stay with this chick forays -- year. I want all of our listeners to continue to let us know what you think. Give us a call 2601870. Will be right back let's go to the newsroom with Dave -- Well we're going to be saying it for a while former New Orleans Mayor Ray Nagin found guilty on twenty of 21 corruption counts. Charges of course involving bribery conspiracy intact for tax fraud. I want to know what you think I want to know if you think justice was served. I want to know what you think the long term effects of this. Will be so give us -- call 2601 it 748668890870. We are very fortunate to have with us not only ten mesh who's been with this for the last half hour. Legal analyst and a criminal defense attorney. Giving some very poignant thoughts on what wasn't done for his -- against defense. And we are also joined by chip foray into I have to say I've been listening to enter mentally. All afternoon. As the legal analyst for debit and you will television and I just can't put into words check. How you you nailed it you just handled the whole thing magnificently things were happening changing your feeling you just knew what you were talking about. You made it interesting to people and I think we all learned a lot and you never lost the heart of it. Witches these are human beings. And it's not just as as Ray Nagin a former mayor it's the citizens who are now looking saying you know what. Dad gum until. Why did this have to happen. Well thank -- I really appreciate those kind words. We we worked really hard channel -- worked really hard. To get to where we are this afternoon Paul Murphy David hammer David hammer live with this case for years yes and the whole management -- channel four and in all the IT people and everybody worked really hard to put what -- a professional. Product in the coverage that we put forth hopefully the viewers liked it. And that we did we did what we can do. It is still I keep saying this because. Even though we've all been paying attention we -- the newspaper we -- watching television listening to radio. You hear those words guilty guilty guilty the first mayor of New Orleans. Who's gonna really gonna go to prison. But is still stunning. And we can all kind of laugh and chuckle and say well we kind of knew which you know something it's still. It's gonna make national news if not international news Ray Nagin was the face of Katrina for many parts of this country. So we're gonna be living with that and I just would like your thoughts on that. Well there's no doubt I mean I've done an interview with NPR and a lot of other a lot of other media outlets. Ray Nagin was the face and loans he was the Katrina mayor. He was the person who was the leader he was the spokesperson. For the city in the world is during this tremendous disaster. That we all experience. If we can go to the court case this afternoon in the verdict. One of the things that hits me having on this on both sides is is that human interest side of this. Ray Nagin and we all know the history of Ray Nagin is a businessman. At Cox cable making 400000 dollars a year he decide to run for the mayor of New Orleans he was elected he was reelected. As he walked across Lafayette park for the last couple weeks he was so what's Clancy would say arrogant full of himself. And when you walked in the federal court. And you know that around noon today the jury is gonna change her life they're gonna combat with the verdict. And if it's not guilty walked -- -- you're the proud peacock. That you -- for the last two weeks. And if you if they come -- guilty. Then you are fed a dose of humility and -- humble and you come out and you know life is for ever changed. Your wife's life has changed your kids' lives he changed. Everything has changed in your life. As a result of those twelve jurors. Reading guilty on twenty of 21 counts he is going to go to the federal penitentiary. For over ten years of which he's got to serve 85%. So he has to do over a decade in jail in my opinion I'm sure Tim agrees with this. And his life is drastically different than it was an 11 o'clock this morning and yet the only words she spoke leaving the courthouse was. I'm maintain my innocence he has to say and his of course he's -- -- -- that. And mr. Jenkins is my dear friends said. We gonna we litigate this on appeal that's we have -- But I'm a body language person I enjoy reading books about body language and watching people the whole body language was different. After the verdict came and you could see the word I used on television was. Both of them worse than they were all in all of their emotions were out there. And it is a life changing experience obviously I mean we all know that. But I've lived it as as an attorney for as a prosecutor and as a defense attorney and it really really changes. We are going to be joined in just a moment with David hammer who you correctly said has spent years. -- It's literally spent years working on this case. Who has also probably feeling a little -- until. David thank you very you know what let's get organized here and I and so thrilled we have more callers to stay with this gang. We are gonna continue this enormous conversation right after this financial under the that you will. We're talking about John. Probably one -- one of the biggest days right or wrong in New Orleans history and that is -- Finding Ray Nagin guilty twining of 21 counts. The first mayor of New Orleans who will go to prison. We are joined -- I'm so thrilled first of all that Tim Mattias staying with the -- is a legal analyst and a defense attorney check for. Now we are joined by Paul Murphy and David hammer. The WW will team and let me again say to the review outstanding from start to finish and I'm talking about the morning news I'm talking about your new news to about 56 content. And certainly what was done today. Was breathtaking. Knowing what it takes to try to pull all that together but you just did it professionally. And it was it was so with such credibility. And yet as I said that -- foray with such heart never got. Wasn't just the fact it was these were human beings human beings on trial but also the human beings that as we as citizens. And the impact we're gonna. I'd like to talk to you'll first. Because you with mr. Paul and David just dogged. Your overall thoughts on this trial. Well. I thought that it was surprising that we even had the trial. You know for as long as I've been covering this story going back to 2008. As this thing built up in the government got more and more people to plead guilty to bribing Ray Nagin and having. You paid illicit payments to him and what have you. It looked like he'd have no choice but to -- And he gave up that choice he passed up that choice we know that there were efforts to get him to do that and then he. Not only did that he went to trial and then took the stand in his own defense and that -- Remarkable. We have and we are delighted to have Robert Jenkins who was the attorney for Ray Nagin is the attorney for Ray -- I appreciate you calling Robert. What a day you -- hand as well. How you gonna end of interruption well good afternoon. Good afternoon. I have to say a lot of people said from the get go that this was not unexpected. Our and reports but I elections say is that. We we did our best I actually pulled that. The proper channels would be very difficult in terms of the baggage that came from the other individuals it was going to be tough because of the magnitude of the indictments. But that that we should have made some and we don't know property. Thought you said as you left the courthouse. That your are already prepared for an appeal. Well -- said that we have to prepare the appeal and move on but you know that's fiscal organized group that it. -- -- -- it did the trial probably should not to be appealed to to because. You want someone dispute fresh -- look at the produce something wrong improper. -- to be held accountable -- was when it was as well. I actually heard another lawyers say. He would be surprised if you even want to take. But the guys like myself that to do do Trout in the cases we don't know that hates. You wanna have a fresh are is that and I don't have the eagle and not to say that they how to do anything wrong with -- -- -- done better so it could help the client. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Tim did you have any comments. Robert when things get him -- by the way intently. Graduate from. Haven't as though some of that you feel you know that two of Leo so that you can decisively now for a change. I am one of the things. And added -- -- but reporters commented how devastating that expert witnesses of the government or -- or. And I think you tried to point out that to the jury that of course they're gonna test by the way they work for the government. And you know that's just the way it works but you guys did not call in the experts -- your -- Would that I don't know how much you can devolved to return client exactly but was there are issues. Maybe -- You know the government has all the resources in the world and sometimes the defense doesn't. Was that. Whether. -- -- case that was one of the issues that show that they have unlimited resources. But as you know and then in America goes to -- -- and you can read between the lines. You know you all have exposed them have to look at look at the election. And if they keep you report that's not. Process a the ability achievement that was used them. And then in what I'm saying is that you you have an invitation look at them and both of the pact they've attacked and -- today. This is the way it is so still in violation that was that's why we've called external position. Let me ask you something not right off the bat. As your season to attorney. Would you have suggested to Ray Nagin take a deal. Well you know you'll have pharmacies about whether and that we here at those accurate karma comment on and it's and note that. You know we were talking in the high but it Tim advances -- that. You always try to put to climb in the best position and you always get the best advice -- to it and that's about the best -- say on that issue. Com. And that talked to him he'll explain to. And ultimately handle like that that's one of the three things that are so -- to decline right. And who really you know there there are warriors who will browbeat decline it into its. Taken the and ethically that Hitler should do the correct totally up to the client and I think Robert. Ethically. Probably one of the best out there understanding. There's cases sometimes you and a true. That you may personally think should be tried but guess what. It's not your decisions at -- client who has the constitutional rights and you have to honor. And. You also. Ultimately it is the -- the person who decides if they're gonna go on the stand corrected to influence him one -- out what. You know we we talked about it we speak and we we. You know look at program content but ultimately. Is -- clients. Decision this fact and tables that's one of the Big Three that they have complete control. -- you basically took clad in not the case. And optimism that maybe than your best interest in this field decides to do that. So ultimately you talked it'll look different but it's -- upon decision. Robert this is David hammer -- AM get. You mentioned earlier about -- seven where which was the Ronnie Williams the 101000 -- cash payment that he was found not guilty on yes. You said that. You had you -- Pointed out several times that mr. Jenkins that mr. Williams was tainted -- -- him pleading guilty. And you thought maybe that scored with the jury and that count. But if that's true what about the other -- Orleans bribery -- Well and an -- appointed David say they -- -- I think that we had done much better. It would history to explain that while these sent what we called the bag which cannot stop that. Along with that was his applaud his testimony that. It was an investment -- help but obviously legitimate that perspective though no connection between -- in net to doubt them and it found that you'll to but I truly. On the bribery -- that we and native. Robert how much of and I've noticed the demographics of the jury there was only one person from Orleans parish him at one African American. On the jury which is there a little bit unusual in this federal court how much do you think the demographics. Of the jury's affected. Not much because David suddenly put on quite I think every day. And the jury did not turn off on us if you wanna use those terms mean they they listen to but he but he gave us the opportunity anyway attentive so you know if other cases what you try case managers cornerback in did not express. So that I did but when it that a major -- they looked a bit notes they came together McCain looked at a decision so and this particular jurors. Arafat did a great job in terms listing today -- none of them that's up throughout the -- trying to. Robert that's major -- it's David again. Mayor often. Kind of made eye contact with certain jurors he was smiling at certain ones during his testimony was that. Planned or did he feel like he could connect with certain jurors. But what the plan -- matter of fact there were times doing that that the good I pulled -- on the terms of those times when the government came over its. Statement the client doing this from the you know. I had blowback it's what the government is saying you don't miss you have stopped because one they actually pay them that you -- picked up on is that. Normally -- prosecution. So it's close to generate. And we would be on the other side but that became an issue in the free copy of the just about the suspected. You know you that you mentioned about it your sense that the the jury was very engaged and we have comment from the jury forewoman. Who -- sort of praised the government's case but she also expressed sympathy for Nagin and his family and frankly for the city. She said it was a long two weeks I can tell you that she's a nurse who lives in saint Tammany we had a great jury. And the trial was well run -- and -- -- speak specifically about things but again she emphasized the sense of sadness for the fans sure. And let me ask you. Kind of where is I know he's probably still in shock is Ray Nagin right now we have what wears his head. Well at this point. -- we're talking about the appellate process. It's concurrent with -- his -- who. You know trying. -- in the courtroom it was taken. And he threatened to make the in this two. There were also people who wondered as we again to -- people reading in the newspaper. With his sons accepting money if they shouldn't have also been indicted. Well I'm -- -- -- the intensity went about being as well as -- you know there are several I've learned not indicted especially degrade grand -- matter. But. You know below is what it is and to Jerry did after the -- But there was some concern about whether that at some point they would have been indicted they do it. Well that there was an issue there right Robert with statute of limitations. Supported by Torre. But that with the signs. With that 2009 payment that actually. Mr. Nagin was found not guilty on that happened in June 2009. Which would be still within the statute and right now it would issue about -- because they do it right. -- Robert this is checked for everybody you know. I think he did a great job Robyn I'm. He biggest fans and I know I seriously you take this profession. And I just wanna give you compliments that. You know I know you did the best that you kid could with the facts that you. Right and and we did it mean word tolerant and Nevada you know the criticism but didn't know about. Paying double -- and case as candidates. And I am I'm aware of that and we talked about Robert I appreciate you waited until after the trial to bring them so that. What to do it made it appears that you brought up but it it. Yet for those that didn't seem as -- now for this afternoon. Robert it told me several days ago that there was actually a threat that was made on his life the latter that he received that is office and believe me. When you're in trial you need all of your best effort and concentration. And that had to weigh on you did not. It did it would it would we had many phone calls -- threats about a hate mail and the government was just. Exceptionally helping out on both sides need the prosecution team want to know they could do. But with Homeland Security we have the US marshals and very make sure that we -- safest we went back to put to court and also contacted some private security. Individuals the flow -- some people clinical. Robert has that ever happened before. Prompted all this happened in these very very high profile case of this you to remember. Intranet for any tab and it happened with -- but that's not all of -- would happen and that's what I mean. It was pretty brutal. Robert. That's difficult and one thing -- is that first of all of try trying the case in any federal case is. It's incredibly. It's a pressure cooker especially when -- -- taking a prosecutors like they did in this case. Some very. I think three very sealed borders yet achieved. Yet you tried the case. All by yourself. Not been -- in that position and I don't know how difficult that is. What there are some ought to maybe get medals while we have tabloid he has that held insistence that attitudes get Obama so I tried it. But I hit so many of the people. You'd probably use it in the -- that put together. The Trout noble and those things went though but I don't talk about it of the question me. In most cities -- it wears -- out there last time out that it amounts of what that I'm never do in the Seattle and have to have some sort of UVO do especially I realize. The pressure you're under I mean that had the and I had to be tough it was to up and and in the end. -- them it is that they could -- look we've done this week. Put our best fruitful and we -- Some -- throws like chicken of the duo -- on. And they Japanese -- of the -- woke with a statement as to make sure -- they cumulative. But diplomacy in the public and when -- innocent -- that like distant does that -- and take up. -- -- say that this is definitely will Melancon WW LFM Nancy you're listening to as we continue the discussion. About really historic day in New Orleans. I wanted to to comment to you Robert that earlier today we talked to dainty Alina and he made the comment that. In essence once the feds have got to the point of indictment a lot of their work is already done and there's that huge power of the of defense and all of their resources. And just by that can be daunting. What can be just ten minutes to continue. That in case of this magnitude that they said we have so over the exhibit. In this particular case one of the the the things that really worked. And -- cases that we that and decided on exhibit together. That would be -- because -- was you know a lot of text messages that they commit a hundred dough boy. -- -- -- So but when they conflict that McCain knew about resources and they do this in the media. Another question for you picking up on David's question earlier. On counts seven as it involved a not guilty and -- you were successful in getting the one tonight guilty. And let me take the flip side of that -- was talking about. Is it possible that the jury was so good and so sophisticated. Since that was a bribe involving 101000 dollars to the Nagin sign -- That they were sending a message. That asking the question why weren't -- -- sons charged. Well -- -- think about that that to be true but remember that amount individual do because of the east the disarmament that was the choice as well so. I think you have terrorists more than toe injury and there attempted. So they've looked at the fact that there was no. In this study which is there the optimism it may even knew about that particular amount of money. Except Robert I mean. We heard this testimony specifically about the one million dollar contract so that the mayor. Gave two auditoriums on that same day so they that the government tried to make the connection. And I guess my question is what's the difference between the connections that they made on the first Rodney Williams bribery count which is the 60000 dollars from the three partners. And that one which was the 101000 dollar payment was it because it was it went directly to the suns. What happened pretty sore -- the urgency but you know. No doubt some connections than and you holiday you know -- that it -- to understand. The government's position what is he doing that is destined to hold people and -- 802000 dollar so -- -- -- Wednesday and why they would try to connect that to mr. -- When that was clear from the documents that he had nothing to do with that being told that it kind of down prices but you know they can. We're gonna polished just pretend second set up for a station ninety please stay with us. I want to thank Paul Murphy he had to leave but that meant a great deal that he would come up here were talking with them. We're talking with everybody -- who were talking and I just I'm so appreciative to everyone. To check for you David hammer to attempt mention and certainly to not Robert Jenkins. Robert let me ask you moving forward. You're saying you may not be the the attorney who is going to handle the appeal. Well it does have to climb but normally until I can tell you that you want intensity that you want to want to look at what you did. And make sure that they do payment due possibly could do for the client that I did candidates appealed to become an incident you know. Well Robert one thing that came up as we talked about the appeal process is the fact that. We saw in this trial how strapped for cash. Mayor Nagin has been furlong time how much money he must've spent in his own defense because all the money that we saw. Being outweigh that and add detailed by the government. You know half a million dollars and then he needed to you know spend all -- You know use the city credit card -- of these personal things. It does is he in a position where he can afford to do the appeal. Well. He's given that some dissident is gonna have the major cause as you don't know -- can't afford to do it properly. And they public defender's office was that an appellate projects. On that side will have to do it but we've already talked about it he's written opal won't be appeal. And -- spoken to him about is that that told you that he meant what has sort of critical what we do it. -- about the is you know he's the client he the declines in income make their decision. You know I did an interview with Tanya Chaplin who is it from the Tulane Law School and she and I made the comment. That when you read about the testimony having not been in the courtroom. It was as if all ways that rain Aiken believed what he was sent yeah he believed that it was not a bribe that it was an investment he -- percent. And she made the comment that she's actually had. Clients who didn't who were wrong but believed they were right and on putting you in an awkward position but. Your thoughts on that. While means. As it relates -- mr. -- you actually believe that. You know opposition that. He didn't rabid ones correct it would take appropriate action to do so. He's sincerely that he did that priority one. I've met him -- so you. He did not want to. Do they have to prove that he was an incident but it flatly that we didn't -- Another factor I'm when I -- client is not. -- -- the Angeles but a lot of times they. Noticed that other people. Have done the same thing and have not. Being tortured crime for instance. Mr. Solomon investigators he is accused of -- Mayor Nagin. To get a tax break there was a report in the newspaper last week. That. Him and his partners Scott alone from the city. And not paid ten. And last year mailing and made an announcement that says we're gonna do everything we can't get that money back. And it turns out yet and I think he also turns out mr. Solomon and business partners -- made significant. Campaign contributions. To -- and -- And my experience with clients is when they see other people. And they look at the -- there have been treated and that affects their mentality. If you can comment on whether or not mayor Nagin believed may -- other mayors of the cities. Mr. Oreo mostly untrue. Were treated differently in him and whether or not that affected his thinking in this case. Well no it wasn't an idea about you know others have done as is that he truly is position was he did not commit a prize. And in -- the most content you know an abatement noses as well. Did jury instructions Communist Cuban issue about you can't worry about what -- did -- prosecuted. Facilities defendants so. We get caught up on the who needs. -- -- -- It's David again do you do you can you tell us a little bit about the mayor's feeling and attitude going into the trial because you. Made some efforts before the trial was delayed the previous time. To bring out issues. Potential prosecutorial misconduct with the comments that were made online by. Former members of the US attorney's office. And it didn't end up going anywhere that you made efforts to push this trial back and you did successfully a couple of times. Was the mayor ready to go going into this that he feel like okay. I'm gonna have. Prove myself innocent and this is the time to go added or was he still trying to find other ways to avoid the Strauss. Well he was ready to -- India actually has stated that. He was commitment to continue earlier because he wanted to get this behind him. You know. It didn't change much we we need more time -- to put more of the defense together by the fact. He was stated that Condoleezza -- That's -- common -- noticed they always want it to be over. In any even if if -- if it's the ending. They just want everything to be over with enormous pressure under. And sometimes it's not in the interest and not always -- court time explain that to my client. That delay is in your interest but they always want it to be -- the tribes that have very difficult thing to deal with the decline. Could we go back to not so much the the accusations of bribery but the various trips that were under written by others. Can we talk about that because I I think for many in the public. If somebody flies -- in New York I know who's doing and if somebody takes me to Hawaii I know who's doing it and bomb. And yet it was sort of dismissed. While he's he Il indicated in in Tuesday that he did not know that someone -- -- -- but he. The contract. Analysis positioned -- the also mr. upper position -- testify. And that that intro and that was his position forever into the current and his wife Eminem's party for a and of -- but the that the ranger. Well what I've -- to know is you know when I first confronted him about the trip to Hawaii and I asked him if it did a contractor pay for it and he said. There is no contractor. And then a few days later he had to admit after we did the story that there was a contractor. Where does he contend that he found out in that moment that mark saint Pierre was the actual person paying for it or does he. Or did you learn at some point prior to when I asked him. What is the this was he never -- that the IPO they have quality -- -- that's what we maintain. We're do admitted at some point because you know if his contention was that. Craig told me he was paying for and that's when I believe. We have -- When he learned about it it was after it eventually it's about the monetary fund. Right they severed is that to his contention I. Yep but -- mr. effort to nineteen year contended that they never told. In an address testified about I don't know exactly and you know change in the way. -- Robert were talking about issues on appeal would handle and and a parting. Probably the best issues could happen is going to be it's something emerges later. -- -- -- And you're asked to see the certain records that the judge denied and didn't allow you to see. And there's rumors out this year and it's not Israel think Jason there referred to earlier rights applaud. And he wrote something about a week or two ago. That suggested that something else is about to come out concerning others in the US attorneys who were -- right. Have you all heard anything about that and what effect if any do you think that well. I have and we've been abreast of it quite some time it becomes. And it it is true. And substantiated. Incidents change perhaps about the you know the disparity. But some other produce -- well apart the same thing. This event that happened then. That some changes a lot. Yeah -- elaborate and put it is actually fact you had. -- it's not come out there there you know there has been a and I got to be careful to could come in the standard case and right. Can you -- Tim do you want me to address it generally speaking this is checked isn't yeah there's so yes -- out there in this some. Lawyers I think it's in the Stacey Jackson case who were trying to get some Nolan dot com records as. As it relates to potential other bloggers. And they feel like that there are some nuclear information. Contain the area and there's all kinds of rumors on the streets no one knows whether or not those nukes exist and we'll have to wait NC. -- -- -- -- -- We don't talk to. Yeah yeah and and what's not yet been released is the -- opinion from the office of professional responsibility in Washington that's still out there. So. Verizon for the listeners who -- just joining -- We have Tim mentioned we have Robert Jenkins and what they're talking about his. Are there any nukes out there that can overturn the -- verdict or any other cases that are out there. It deals with the blogging in the US attorney's office there are folks out there that think the daddy issues not dead. That there are others out there that were involved in the blogging. And we'll have to wait and see if that information is true or -- and they really think that it will make a difference perhaps. In cases I'm not of that opinion quality that may be all they have to -- well. Our actions tidbits from. Being on the inside and knowing what I know about of the cases. If it is true to them can have a -- and it is true it's gonna change to -- -- both cases and really it. But it this is David again I mean that's his point out that it depends on what. Ever this new information is what it is because you Robert tried before this trial to. You know bring this out related to what we already know is out there in terms of comments that were made by former US attorney and assistant US attorneys regarding the mayor and an attitude of judge ginger -- -- was. The indictment and it it speaks for itself and the and the jury will determine. -- guilt or innocence -- But of this information is it is true what we believed to be. It's going to upset some other I've talked. It can be beyond panic and try not other. I just wanted to one chick oriented -- it was here David hammer to mention Robert Jenkins are all on the line were all talking about. Again what happened today. With former mayor Ray -- being found guilty on twentieth 21 counts. Conspiracy and fraud register resent that. Now we're talking about some of we need to continue to talk Baptist let me I don't wanna go away from the race tightening in trial but. -- -- Thing could happen to those who have already been involved and we're no longer with the US attorney's office and -- pair -- Could charges ever be brought against them. Well there are opposite are out they've -- its its mission turns out to be true what what I've known about it. And what -- probably knows about it what -- knows. I would say without a doubt that -- -- could be brought. But I mean what kind of challenges -- note you open about what wildly. -- -- -- what you'll also saying very delicately is that beyond them there may be others within that office. Who might have influenced things that now could affect. -- appeal for Ray -- My mind -- and David -- -- not so this year but we're not as confident as they. Well I think if you look at and and you know of course in the Danziger case and judging cohort commented. About the horrible like atmosphere. During the trial that were walking by active US attorneys and and and and you know. The we have the threat at least I didn't that Robert. But when you're trying to chase and you have people making. Death threats or even in pretrial proceedings where. Agree injuries hidden in trying to determine whether or not to indict. Somebody. If you had people in the community. -- in positions of responsibilities. Within the US to bill -- Who's participating. And or pausing. That type of atmosphere. It's somehow that the -- that it's gonna army the -- injury. For the jury. For the decision of witnesses whether or not to come forward until the truth whether or not a law. And in the -- in the UK access with judging or ominously green in the trial. And if some of the things Roberts alluding to happened. And it happened during a time when they were trying to decide whether or not to bring charges against mr. Nagin. That could have a dramatic effect on what happens going forward market. -- Is anything else. I'm telling you Robert I truly appreciate and this has been a very long. Very long several weeks for you and probably today overwhelming. -- -- believe yes yes and let me just ask you one more thing about it raining in the Stanley. He he will that the house incarceration was one was that a surprise to you. And two is it going to be hearing -- No I wasn't surprised that standard. Home detention and no it's going to be intact. In Texas -- and there were comments made earlier about you have to have a land line. So has that already been arranged. Yes that's been done and. You know you have to have one in the home they can use that particular locations so he has that. So he will be there until sentencing which will be. I mentioned sixty to ninety days. Unless he has to come back to meet with. Probation office and -- weren't completely agent that would happen happened so he'll be back here. You know sometime. And what was his and his wife's reaction to that to them. House incarceration. Well knows what they're devastated about the Birdie. -- They understand and agree with -- home detention. Are you do you agree with what we've all been talking about it. The sentencing could be as high as twenty years. But that the statute on the guidelines and so appointment. In -- -- And so you know. Well but the idea was taken to be twenty that we -- -- -- -- one of the steps up to twenty years. Do I think he's going to be twenty years I don't think so. Did you have conversations with him about the various permutations and possibilities for sentencing. Oh without a doubt it's -- -- alternate time. Yeah I mean did you have a chance to look at the guy lines and advise him on what he could be facing if he's found guilty on -- -- when he won counts. Well we do have that many times and Indians -- Pattinson and well. I was lived through that he's found it in total to and and he knows that so we gotta go with them again. And again we will Wikipedia static from in -- maybe objection depending on iTunes now. -- Robert Jenkins thank you very very America how to -- a nice glass of wine Robert before we -- L one it's a one thing buddy you are a credit to the profession. Thank you that make you very much appreciate that even for these guys to look. Actually. Thank you Robert Jenkins and I want to on everyone to stay with December still going to be talking about this for a while. I'm appreciative of the callers on what you just stay with us as well. But will be joined by check or a David hammer to mash right after this I'm Angela under the have you well. Profoundly grateful to Robert Jenkins who was the attorney for Ray Nagin talking to -- for good half hour about. What the process was and what mr. Nagin is going to do now. Were still joined by Tim mesh very appreciative -- for -- and David hammer. David I know you have to do you have to go do live shots but time. Just again your overall thoughts from start to finish. I know you thought he should have just. Should've just gone had not gone to trial going it settle and get -- but he didn't he went through it he believed. That the people would believe that he didn't do it. Well the first thing I wanna say is we really saw the power of the press in this case. Sat sounds kind of a self serving statement but. The press. Was on this stuff very early on then the FBI picked it up and pursued it and you know Canadians attitude toward us when we were reporting about these trips and these freebies. While he was still in office was very dismissive. So I guess in that sense it was not a surprise that he decided to take it to trial because he was just as dismissive on the stand. Which I was not surprised about. But from a strategic standpoint it was still shocking. It was still surprising to see that he went to trial and that he stood not sat sat on the witness stand under this withering cross examination from Mac common. And continued to persist in saying. I don't understand what you guys are so worried -- understand what this is all about. And asking questions like that and that was. At the same time expected and surprising and then. The verdict is pretty much what we thought I'm I'm still a little bit unclear about the thought process behind. The one not guilty charge related to Rodney Williams payments and the other one being guilty but. The explanation that Robert Jenkins gave as an interest is a good one and his supposition too because he can't know exactly what the -- was thinking about. Robert Jenkins has been very responsive throughout this and that was very good to see. Absolutely. One week now go to the newsroom we have Dave -- but please stay with -- and again we're now taking callers let us know what you think.