We have and we are delighted to have Robert Jenkins who was the attorney for Ray Nagin is the attorney for -- and I appreciate you calling Robert. One day you -- hand as well. You're gonna end of interruption well good afternoon. Good afternoon. I have to say a lot of people said from the get go that this was not unexpected. Well I. Reports but I elections say is that. We we did our best I actually thought that. The proper channels would be very difficult in terms of the baggage that came from the other individuals it was going to be tough because of the magnitude of the indictments. But I thought that we should have made some that we don't know on properties. Thought you said as he left the courthouse. That your are already prepared for an appeal. Well -- that we can prepare the appeal -- long but you know that's a school of thought and I agree with that that. The attorney that it probably should not to be appealed the because. He wants -- one dispute franchise that has produced something wrong improper. And I should be held accountable sleepless -- -- -- as well. I actually heard another lawyers say. He would be surprised if you even want to take. But the guys like myself that to do do Trout in the cases we don't know that hates. You wanna have a fresh are as bad and I don't have the equal and opposite that he did anything wrong whatever -- -- -- better so it could help the client. -- -- -- -- -- Chip -- Tim did you have any comments. Robert when things get him out by the way intently. Graduate from. Haven't though some of that you feel you know that -- Leo so that didn't decisively now for a change. One of the things. That. And -- -- centro but reporters -- how devastating that expert witnesses of the government. All our 30 lead or and I think you tried to point out -- -- to the -- that of course they're gonna test by the way they worked for the government. And you know that's just the way it works but you guys did not call any experts -- your own. -- that and I don't know how much you can devolved to attorney client exactly but was there are issues. May be able. You know the government has all the resources in the world and sometimes the defense doesn't. Was that. Whether. Additionally no case that was one of the issues the show that they have unlimited resources. But as you know and then in America goes to to keep the system you can read between the lines. You know you all have exposed them have to look at look at the issue. And if they do you view report that's not. Process a the ability achievement that was used them. And and and what I'm saying is that you you have an invitation look at them and -- vote on the pact they've attacked and even today. This is the way it is so still the violation that was that's why we've called external position. Let me ask you something not right off the -- As your season to attorney. Would you have suggested terrain make and take a deal. Well -- you'll have harmlessly to the weather and that we get those accurate -- comment on and it's and note that. You know we were talking in the -- but that it him with a visit to that. You always try to -- to -- in the best position and you always get the best advice that you and that's about the best our students say on this issue. And and to talk to -- pointing. And ultimately handle like -- that's one of the three things that are so -- to decline right. And you really you know there there are warriors who will be decline it into its. Taken the lead and -- that -- should do that correct totally up to the Korean and I think Robert. Ethically. Is probably one of the best out there understanding. There's cases sometimes and that trial. That you. You may personally think shouldn't be tried but guess what it's not your decisions that story line who has the constitutional right and you have to honored. And. You also. Ultimately it is the end. The person who decides if they're gonna go on the stand. Did you influence timlin went out what. You know we we talked about that we beat Italy we. You know look at program content but ultimately. Is the client's decision this fact and tables. That's one of the Big Three that they have complete control. You basically took clad in not the case. And optimism that maybe than your best interest in this field decide to do that so ultimately talks over the and that is different decision. Robert this is David hammer at 8 AM get. You mentioned earlier about -- seven where which was the Ronnie Williams the 101000 -- cash payment that he was found not guilty on yes. You said that. You had you -- Pointed out several times that mr. Jenkins that mr. Williams was tainted -- -- him pleading guilty. And you thought maybe that scored with the jury and that count. But if that's true what about the other round Orleans bribery count. And that is -- appointed David -- -- pop. I was in that we had done much better. It would history to explain the wildcats had what we called advantage and -- a -- Along with that was his partner's testimony be. It was an investment would help but obviously to do in the that -- no connection between Rabin met to -- them and it found that -- to but I truly. On the bribery -- that we and -- Robert how much of and I've noticed the demographics of the jury there was only one person from Orleans parish -- one African American. On the jury which is there a little bit unusual in this federal court how much do you think the demographics. Of the jury's affected. I'm not much because Davis -- in the courtroom quite I think every day. And the jury did not turn off honest if you wanna use those terms it means they've -- that ST they gave us the opportunity it would attentive so you know. Other cases what you try case managers trying to back in it no express. So that I -- but when it that a manager of the statement that it notes they came together McCain looked a decision. Seoul and this particular jurors are thought did a great job in terms listing to -- evidence none of them that's up throughout the whole trial. Robert that's major -- it's David again. Mayor often. Kind of made eye contact with certain jurors he was smiling at certain ones during his testimony was that. Planned or did he feel like he could connect with certain jurors. But what the plan in matter of fact there were times doing that that the good I'll poke in the -- on the terms so there was times when -- government came moments. Statement he climbed to -- in this from the you know. I had blowback it's what the government is saying you don't miss you have stop because what they actually pay them that you're up picked up on is that. Normally the prosecution. So it's close to the jury. And we would be on the other side but became an issue in the pretrial -- -- just about a suspected. You know you that you mentioned about it your sense that the -- jury was very engaged and we have comment from the jury forewoman. Who -- sort of raise the government's case but she also expressed sympathy for Nagin and his family and frankly for the city. She said it was a long two weeks I can tell you that she's a nurse who lives in saint Tammany we had a great jury. And the trial was well run and -- -- speak specifically about things but again she emphasized the sense of sadness but I am sure. And let me ask you. Kind of where is I know he's probably still in shock is Ray Nagin right now we -- what wears his head. Well at this point. -- was talking about the appellate process. He's -- -- this is why it's who. You know trying. -- in the courtroom is taken care. And he threatened to in this state in this to. There were also people who wondered as we again to -- people reading in the newspaper. With his sons accepting money if they shouldn't have also been indicted. Well I'm David into the intensity went about things was bad you know there's several -- -- -- indicted especially to grand grand -- matter. But. You know below is what it is and to Jerry did applicant that. But there was some concerns about whether that at some point they would have been indicted again. Well that there was an issue there right Robert with statute of limitations that's -- possibility -- it. But that with the signs. With that 2009 payment that actually. Mr. Nagin was found not guilty on that happened in June 2009. Which would be still within the statute and right now it would issue about. But they do it right. It Robert this is checked for everybody you know. I think he did a great job Robyn I'm. He biggest fans but I know I seriously you take this profession. And I just wanna give you compliments that. You know I know you did the best that you kid could with the facts that you. Right and and we did in the word tolerant and you know the criticism but -- know about. Paying double blind. -- -- And I am I'm aware of that and we talked about that Robert I appreciate you waited until after the trial to bring them up so that. What to do it made it appears that you brought -- it. Yeah for those that didn't -- as -- now for this afternoon. Robert it told me several days ago that there was actually a threat that was made on his life the latter that he received that is office and believe me. When you're in trial you need all of your best effort and concentration. And that had to weigh on you did not. It did it would it would we have many phone call -- out threats about a hate mail and -- the government was just. Exceptionally helping out on both sides meet the prosecution team want to know what they could do. But we have Homeland Security we have to US marshals land. They make sure that we -- the safest we went back to put to court and also contacted some private security. Individuals to flow through some -- people political. Robert has that ever happened before. It always did this happen in these burger profile cases that you remember. Intranet for any and it happened with -- but that's not all of that would happen and that's what I mean it was pretty brutal. Robert. That's difficult and one thing -- is that first of all. Truck trying the case in any federal case is. It's incredibly. It's a pressure cooker -- especially when -- eight taking a prosecutors like they did in this case. Some very. I think three very -- -- yet achieved. Yet you tried the case. All by yourself. Not been put in that position and I don't know how difficult that is. What there are some ought to maybe get medals here we have tabloid he has that held consistent and attitudes -- Obama so I tried it. But I hit so many of the people. You'd probably be sitting in the off the puppy yeah. They Trout noble and mostly window but I don't talk about it would be questioned me. In those cities -- it wears you out there last time -- -- -- that I'm never do in -- you know and have to have solicit -- -- -- the pressure you're under -- mean that has the and I had to be tough it was -- -- and then in the end that. Most of it is pretty good look we've done is. We put our best hopeful as we held. Some -- which is like chicken of the -- on on. And they Japanese corridors of the main wall with a statement says the mission there and the city's cumulative. But to -- in the public and let -- in the one that like -- -- -- the -- and take up to. -- -- say that this is definitely will -- Marlins and WW LF eminent figure listening to as we continue the discussion. About really historic day in New Orleans. I want it to to comment to you Robert that earlier today we talked to -- -- and he made the comment that. In essence once the feds have got to the point of indictment a lot of their work is already done. And there's that huge power of the of the fence and all of their resources. And just by that can be daunting. What can be just ten minutes to continue the case of this magnitude that they said we have so over the exhibit. In this particular case one of the the the things that really worked. And -- cases that we that and decided exhibit together. That would be used because it was you know a lot of text messages that they -- -- hundred dough boy. -- -- -- So but when they sound like that -- -- Novo resources and they do this in the media. Another question for you picking up on David's question earlier. On counts seven as it involved a not guilty and -- you were successful in getting the one the not guilty. And let me take the flip side of that Joseph was talking about. Is it possible that the jury was so good and so sophisticated. Sense that was a bribe involving 101000 dollars to the Nagin signed it. That they were sending a message. That asking the question why weren't the navy -- charged. Well we need to think about that that to be true but remember that not individual do -- of the east the disarmament that was the choice as well so. I think you have terrorists more than toe injury and there attempted. So they've looked at the fact that there was no. In this particular case there that commitment may even knew about that particular amount of money. Except Robert I mean we heard this testimony specifically about the one million dollar contract shot that the mayor. Gave two auditoriums on that same day so they did the government tried to make the connection. And I guess my question is what's the difference between the connections that they made on the first Rodney Williams bribery count which is the 60000 dollars from the three partners. And that one which was the 101000 dollar payment was it because it was it went directly to the suns. I would have a particular felt the urgency but you know. There are some connections than and you -- adamantly -- -- to understand. The government's position what is -- doing that is destined to hold people and 802000 dollar -- published in fact about them Spain and why they -- trying to connected to mr. Nagin. When it was clear from the documents that he had nothing to do with that intelligent and about prices but you know they -- We're gonna polished just pretend second -- for a station ninety please stay with us. I want to thank Paul Murphy hit delete but that meant a great deal that he would come up here were talking with them. We're talking with everybody -- who were talking and I just I'm so appreciative to everyone. Too much it foray and David hammer to attempt mention and certainly to -- Robert Jenkins. Robert let me ask you moving forward. You're saying you may not be the the attorney who is going to handle the appeal. Well it doesn't apply but normally until you can tell you that you want him to conceive that you want to want us to look at what you did. And make sure ability due payment due possibly to do for the client that I -- to basically become an incident you know. Well Robert one thing that came up as we talked about the appeal process is the fact that. We saw in this trial how strapped for cash. Mayor Nagin has been furlong time how much money he must've spent in his own defense because all the money that we saw. Being -- it and add detail by the government you know half a million dollars and then he needed to be you know spend all -- You know use the city credit card -- of these personal things. It does is he in a position where he can afford to do the appeal. Well. He that some dissident is gonna -- they -- -- as you I don't know Pete can't afford to do it properly. Then they public defender's office was steps and an appellate projects. On that side would have to do it but we've already talked about it he's risen -- won't be appealed an outspoken talking about is that that told you that. Even when have sort of critical what we do it. -- -- Is you know he's the client he would decline -- to make their decision. You know I did an interview with Tanya Chaplin -- from the Tulane Law School and she and I made the comment. That when you read about the testimony having not been in the courtroom. It was as if always that rain -- believed what he was sent saying he believed that it was not a bribe that it was investment he -- percent. And she made the comment that she's actually had. Clients who didn't who were wrong but believed they were right and on putting you in an awkward position but. Your thoughts on that. While I mean. At the release of mr. -- you actually believe that. In opposition that. He -- revenue was correct and we gonna take appropriate action to do so. He's sincerely that he did that bribe anyone. Meant it would take so you. He did not want to. Do they have to prove that he was serviceable but -- -- private that's what we did. But another factor I'm when I encounter -- client is not. -- but what -- Angeles but a lot of times they. Noticed that other people. I've done the same thing and has not. Been tortured crime for instance. Mr. Solomon in the theater. Is accused of bribing. Mayor Nagin. To get a tax break there was a report in the newspaper last week. That. Him and his partners Scott alone from the city. And had not paid ten and last year mailing and made an announcement that says we're gonna do -- can get that money back. It turns out yet and a saying he also turns out mr. Solomon in the business partners -- made significant. Campaign contributions. To lately and for a and my experience with clients is when they see other people. And they look at the -- there will be treated. In that affects their mentality. If you can comment on whether or not mayor Nagin believed may be other mayors of the cities. And Demorrio mostly in group. Were treated differently in him and whether or not that affected his thinking in this case. Although it was an idea about you know others have done as is that he truly is position was he did not commit a -- And a minute. -- contagion and David knows this well. The jury instructions Communist Cuban issue about. You can learn about what I was looking to be prosecuted. Facilities defendants so we get caught up on the who made. -- -- -- -- -- Robert. It's David again -- do you can you tell us a little bit about the mayor's feeling and attitude going into the trial because you. Made some efforts before the trial was delayed the previous time to. Bring out issues of potential prosecutorial misconduct with the comments that were made online by. Former members of the US attorney's office. And it didn't end up going anywhere that you made efforts to push this trial back and you did successfully a couple of times. Was the mayor ready to go going into this that he feel like okay. I'm gonna have. Prove myself innocent and this is the time to go -- it or was he still trying to find other ways to avoid the Strauss. Well even as president though India actually has stated that. He was commitment to continue earlier -- does he want to get this behind him. You know. It didn't change much when we need more time there could put more of defense together by the impact. He was stated that constantly and so the so. That's common on -- they always want it to be over. And any even if it -- it's it's the ending. They just want everything to be over the enormous pressure under. And sometimes it's not in the interest and not always had a court time explain that to my clients. That delay is in your interest but they always wanted to be over the tribes that have very difficult thing to deal with with the -- Could we go back to not so much the the accusations of bribery but. The various trips that were under written by others. Can we talk about that because I I think for many in the public. If somebody flies me in New York I know who's doing and if somebody takes me to Hawaii I know who's doing it on. And yet it was sort of dismissed. Well. He -- and indicated in into Tuesday that he did not know that one Palestinian funny. The contract. And now with the positions -- Indians. Statement. Also mr. efforts position when he testified. And that -- -- position -- into the current and his -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- the that the Granger. Well what -- -- to know is you know when I first confronted him about the trip to Hawaii and I asked him if it did a contractor pay for it and he said. There is no contractor. And then a few days later he had to admit after we did the story that there was a contractor. Where does he contend that he found out in that moment that mark saint Pierre was the actual person paying for it or does he. Or did -- learn at some point prior to when I asked him. What is that this was he an avenue that most of the -- they have quality in the that's what we maintain. Well how do admitted at some point because you know if his contention was that. Greg told me he was paying for and that's what I believe. -- -- -- When he learned about it after the events of the from -- monetary fund. Right they -- is that to his contention I. Yep but -- mr. effort to same here contended that they never told. And they -- testified about that under this exactly and then you know change when the way it. -- Rather we're talking about issues on the PO would handle and and upon. -- probably the best issues could happen is going to be it's something emerges later. -- -- And you're asked to see the certain records that the judge denied -- didn't allow you to see. And there's rumors out this year and is not to Israel think -- beer referred to earlier rights applaud. And he wrote something about a week or two ago. That suggested that something else is about to come out concerning others in the US attorneys who were walking right. -- you all heard anything about that and what effect if any do you think that well. I and we've been abreast of it quite some time. It becomes. And it it is true. It's substantiated. -- -- -- perhaps about the Natalee -- But some -- -- to swap -- -- the same thing. That event that happened then. Definite changes unlocked. Yeah -- elaborate. Put it is actually fact -- had. It it's not come out there there you know there has been a com. So and I got to be careful to could come in the standard case and right. Can you want him do you want me to address it generally speaking this is checked isn't yeah there's so yes serene out there in this some. Lawyers I think it's in the Stacey Jackson case. Who were trying to get some Nolan dot com records as as it relates to potential other bloggers. And they feel like. That there are some nuclear information. Contained -- there's all kinds of rumors on the streets no one knows whether or not those nukes exist and -- the weaknesses. -- -- -- -- Well. We don't talk to. Yeah and and what's not yet been released as the opinion from the office of professional responsibility in Washington that's still out there. So. Verizon for the listeners who just joining us. We -- Tim mentioned we have Robert Jenkins and what they're talking about his. Are there any nukes out there that can overturn the -- verdict or any of the cases that are out there. It deals with the blogging in the US attorney's office there are folks out there that think the daddy issues not dead. That there are others out there that were involved in the blogging. And we'll have to wait and see if that information is true overnight and they really think that it won't make a difference perhaps. In cases I'm not of that opinion quality that may be all they have to align well. Our actions -- this from. Being on the inside and knowing what I know about of the cases. If it is true to them to economic summit and it is true -- -- change to poke over the those cases and really it. But it does David again I mean that's his point out that it depends on what. Ever this new information is what it is because you Robert tried before this trial to. You know bring this out related to what we already know is out there in terms of comments that were made by former US attorney's assistant US attorneys regarding the mayor and attitude of judge ginger -- Ginn was. The indictment and it it speaks for itself and the and the jury will determine. -- guilt or innocence and. But of this information is it is true what we believed to be. It's going to upset some other products continued access to -- Beyond panic and try other. I just wanted to one chick oriented -- it was here David hammer to mention Robert Jenkins are all on the line were all talking about. Again what happened today. With former mayor Ray -- being found guilty on twentieth 21 counts. Conspiracy and fraud register resent that. Now we're talking about some of we need to continue to talk about it is let me I don't wanna go away from the race tightening in trial but. -- -- Thing could happen to those who have already been involved and we're no longer with the US attorney's office -- Up her her. Could charges ever be brought against them. Well and opposite are out they've -- its its -- turns -- to be true what what I have to build. And what -- probably knows about it with -- in those. I would say without a doubt that taught this could be brought. But I mean what kind of charges or -- -- -- about what wildly. All right. -- what you all are also saying very delicately is that beyond them there may be others within that office. Who might have influenced things that now could affect. On appeal for Ray Nagin. My mind to say they gave any -- or not so this year -- we're not as confident as they. Well I think if you look at and and you know of course in the Danziger case and judging cohort commented. About the horrible like atmosphere. During the intro there were walking by active US attorneys and and and and you know. The I wouldn't have the threats that resided in that Robert. But when you're trying to -- and you have people making. Death threats or even in pretrial proceedings where. Agree injuries hidden in trying to determine whether or not to indict. Somebody. If you have people in the community. Of in positions of responsibilities. Within the US attorney bill -- Who's participating. And or pausing. That type of atmosphere. It's somehow that the -- it's it's gonna hurt me the -- injury. Forgery. Or the decision of witnesses whether or not to come forward until the truth whether or not a law. And in advance -- case assessment judging or fact ominously green and in the -- And if some of the things Roberts alluding to happened. And it happened at current time when they were trying to decide whether or not to bring charges against mr. Nagin. That could have a dramatic effect of what happens going forward -- market. -- -- anything else. Until you Robert I truly appreciate and this has been a very long. Very long several weeks for you and probably today overwhelming. I believe yes yes and let me just ask you one more thing about it raining in Stanley. He he will that the house incarceration was one was that a surprise to you and two is it going to be hearing -- No I wasn't surprised that standard. I don't detention and no it's going to be intact. In Texas -- and there were comments made earlier about you have to have a land line. So has that already been arranged. Yes that's been done and. You know you have to have one in the home they can use that particular locations so he has the. So he will be there until sentencing which will be. I mentioned sixty to ninety days. Unless he has to come back to meet with. Probably an office in the were completely agent that would happen -- so he'll be back here. You know sometimes. And what was his and his wife's reaction to that to them. House incarceration. Well. This is what they're devastated about the Birdie. Putt. They understand and agree with -- home detention. Are you do you agree with what we've all been talking about it. The sentencing could be as high as twenty years. -- that the -- on the guidelines and so appointment. You know -- -- don't know. Well but to get -- -- to beat quality that we could be -- but one of the steps up to twenty years. Do I think he's going to be twenty years I don't think so. Did you have conversations with him about the various permutations and possibilities for sentencing. No doubt about it each child. -- look -- the time. Yeah I mean did you get a chance to look at the guy lines and advise him on what he could be facing if he's found guilty on twenty of 21 counts. Well we did that many times and Indians spent that it has been well. We went through that he's found it in total to he knows that so. We're gonna go over the again. And again we will wait for the PS had to come out in middle maybe objections depending on site sums up. -- Robert Jenkins thank you very very very hard -- a nice glass of wine Robert before we -- I'll wanna tell you one thing buddy you are a credit to the profession. Thank you that they can promotes and appreciate that you -- -- these guys to look. Actually -- Thank you Robert Jenkins and I want to on everyone to stay with December still going to be talking about this for a while. I'm appreciative of the callers on what you -- with this as well. But will be joined by -- -- David hammer to mash right after this I'm Angela under the have you well.