WWL>Topics>>2-17-14 1:10pm Angela: on marriage

2-17-14 1:10pm Angela: on marriage

Feb 17, 2014|

Angela spends two hours discussing love and marriage with clinical social worker Debbie Poitevant and professional counselor Scott Borne.

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Automatically Generated Transcript (may not be 100% accurate)

Well first of all happy presidents today my husband and I always talk about our two favorite George and Abraham we actually have their pictures hanging in our home. Until we've had some great presidents but there's something special about George Washington -- Enough that I hope you had a fund Valentine weekend maybe gave a card to someone special or simply told someone you love them. But today we're gonna -- beyond the hearts and flowers. We're gonna spend the next two hours and that's -- two hours talking about love and marriage and everything in between. Is marriage what you thought it would be what's been the toughest part for you what's been the biggest surprise. What do you think of those who choose to live together and perhaps have children but not get married. What is different if anything from the time your parents were married. While many things are different from even a generation ago. Couples are marrying later roughly 62%. Of women and with children work outside the home. Some men are staying home during the day while their wives bring home the bacon. But what stayed the same. Hopefully wanting to share your life to someone you feel a special. We're talking about love and marriage and beyond with two people who spend their professional lives helping couples become better partners. -- point event is a licensed clinical social worker she is a board certified supervisor. And Scott Bourne is a licensed professional counselor both uptown and on the North Shore. I am thrilled you Lawler here I hope all of our listening listeners. Who ever had a question about relationships will feel comfortable calling 2601. Point seven think that's 2601878. Or if you lot have some thoughts on that doesn't have to be question can be your personal opinion. Again for two hours we're gonna talk about love and marriage and beyond. Thank you thank you both for being here and tonight I know I'm projecting. But. I just like to think because I love to go to weddings. But at that moment. When that beautiful ceremony is happening whether the casual or very traditional. It is that moment when they say this is going to be for the rest of my life. But sometimes it isn't and more and more frequently it is not so I'm gonna start with fuel with. What you two are seen as some of the biggest changes perhaps. In love relationships. Well you know I -- -- It's got. You know it has changed. Overtime and then there's recent -- point thirteen. From the New York Times called this establishment of marriage. And there's this perception that marriage. Is declining. And what do -- that was between 1950 and -- eleven Ameritrade fell. From nine marriages a year per 1000 unmarried women to 31 and that's a 66% decline that's a drop very yes march -- so. There's a bit of panic with and and they looked at a study from the University of Maryland. And I don't -- person's name. She's sociologist. -- the average age of marriage is two point seven for women point nine for men and that's. Certainly -- increased over time. They found that women who delayed marriage into early thirties had less of a chance of divorce. And I found that uninteresting. Piggyback on that little -- That -- they're finding about people who've remained married. Is that 61%. Describe themselves as happy. Encourage what is scary encouraging I really liked passing over 50% sounds good -- -- you know as we were talking I was. Something that came up from me who's watching Downton Abbey last night. If anybody who's been watching it. There before your area guys your scene now. Social mores and values change. When great national crises in international crises take place. And use the women become much more assertive much more out from under the pounds. Com social regulation. In the in this particular show you're seeing every -- mutation and attraction couples coming together. And disagreements it's really not so different than what we experience right now fast forward to when he fourteen. The biggest issue -- now our young people struggling who were in relationships whether they want to maintain the relationship. Or move forward and Mary because they're so afraid they're going to make a wrong decision. So it's pretty. Inability to make a decision. They wanna do it right they do right this generation you know it's all about. Doing rights being right on target there vary much. Sort of techno geeks if you will peak is in technology. There are clear eyed decision trees. About how to get from a disease. I seen that acted now in the behavioral. And mean you look at how we learn about relationships and you -- learn from our parents we learn from friends' parents who learn from media. They have reality TV shows now that tell you what love is supposed to be like him are relationships with -- by what -- must -- like. We model the behavior we mount the communication styles. You know just the other day -- -- Cinderella too. And I guess it should add that I have to natural water up. By -- buses that are relative and they had and a stages step sister. Going to a break bakery shop and she -- two of the bread maker. And she he had just look at her -- just look at her eyes and are just non verbal communication between them we'll syndrome a stand outside the window. And she looked in -- declared that that was -- And so even an early age -- messages being sent out about what lumpiness. In our expectations if we don't. They're not met and the relationship they're not met in the marriage. We can be disappointed and we can even become angry. And oppressed. And -- let's go back to where things that we model if if you're lucky enough to have had two parents who. Not really seem to -- and not that they had didn't have a fight now and then but for the most part. Just have a very solid relationship and you you would think that's what I want. But if you had parents who didn't have a very successful relationship -- Then you could say. Not only -- not want that I'm going to aspire to something else many -- -- -- saying looking at media etc. it scares me to think that somebody. Would look at those reality shows and think that's real. That's real television I can't imagine that being real real -- the people that show up in my office. One of the ways -- I. Want to get to know them and reach out to him is to understand. What was that family of origin experience like who -- the people. That modeled. How to we'd be in the adult world we live how we interact in the in the adult world. And from my -- way of thinking. When you begin to kind of drilled down and understand. That while you never know what's going on and household demolition -- and in my office that's what we do we get down to rule what really happened today. And then you begin to get a sense. The belief systems that performed. As a result of what that when they were children in the household what they saw with the experience and what the interpreted. Which may be accurate or not because a lot of these young folks come in to the adult world with maybe. So distortions. About how. A lot of the how to be in the world a lot of the folks IC even older adults -- say. Well I learned from my parents that. XYZ. Has to happen in a marriage. And they're kind of rigid rigid set of rules. And what we found today is a lot of these rules it really came out of the 50s60s and maybe the seventies early myths. And I'll be happy to talk about those long enough you know I think that's for it because if you're really talking about both things expectation. There are still those -- and I often think of the the glamorous nation of the bride to and that special day. And the prince is taking us off on the white horse. And for May be that day you can have a special feeling but that's never realities. And yes even though women are more and more clearly more economically independent and they want war and -- and educationally etc. There's still the thought somebody's gonna take care from. That puts a lot of pressure one that sets up an expectation. I'm I'm I was sort of stopped when you said someone's going to take care of me. I'm thinking it would that you scout missing here in the same kind of time. I'm not really sure where that is right now. I think theory that there may be a fantasy with some folks like our dependence on on both sides as it is. These lists are. You know it's in that study -- mission early from University of Maryland. That they found that the mail if he was. You know had more traditional roles in mind. Of what gender should operated a marriage then they were more likely to divorce Tuesday's has worked in the past that part does if they held a -- traditional values and they were more likely to succeed in marriage so. That has changed. Now and there's. An expectation by societies really confusing it it presents some -- I think in that society sends a message -- We think he should be independent. That you don't need anyone else. And then there's this idea that we have. -- attachments secure attachment. Hard Allard and our systems. And we really -- on and promotion focused their peak yet so. Yeah that's very confusing and presents a lot of dilemma for us. These days when you know what that's a perfect time to take a quick break I hope everybody is listening and if you feel comfortable give us a call at 2601870. Questions or your own thoughts about love and marriage today we'll be right back stay with -- I'm Angela on WWL. For the next two hours we're talking about love and marriage and changes in expectations. And we're hoping that she'll be part of the conversation give us a call 2601870. Joining us is -- point event to was a licensed clinical social worker and Scott -- a licensed professional counselor. We have a caller let's take JoAnne JoAnne. I. Interesting dilemma that our ratchet and relationships that haven't been married a really long time. And having gone through that Richie isn't set to be you know in a marriage. Well -- -- -- -- especially -- out of deep in the candidate -- accurately have to take care now and I'll have to you know be responsible our own well -- to a large expanse. Even in a relationship. You know -- things that happened in a relationship when children come along. Can't change. -- -- I'm more inclined. To be taken care. At least -- time being. You know when that children you -- Because. You know our that your are seen -- an aircraft there. Well I think it's how you define taking care being taken care of I think. Again it's about the partners talking about the responsibilities they have for the children. And then what the division of labor to put it kind of coldly. Will look like I think it's about on the mutuality. Of the experience there no absolute. This way or that way but he thinks that. No I agree you know it's all about sharing responsibility these days especially when you know that. Both the both persons in the relationship are having to work to support. Not just one but you know the famous hole and the torture so yes -- agree. And things have gotten so much more expensive. School just. Housing food shelter clothing schools for kids. That this is a serious issues to consider in the context of growing a family what is that going to look like. And the other thing is what are your lifestyle choices. That will allow you to achieve. The values you all have agreed upon. Joseph winner are you on is that answering. Yeah. Yeah I've got a -- but I now -- -- can -- age -- -- network now. There in the in my town. Circle over the years that generally. Women can you have greater expectation. From their. -- children -- And it chief ban to that point. You know it's expected they. -- at -- default if yep that's what we've. Yet you lot but did you say that met their expectations. Can't change. The outcome and the -- Excuse me could you got it could you define what you mean by expectations. -- mean. Where women who are really active strong career. They made more money in their -- and yet. You know. It worked out there relationship in that regard and yeah every. Cap comes along it's like you know -- Court than court which -- -- not going to be able or its arch. You know make me that I tested it'll -- it expects to take up more on the financial. Think it's that. You know -- -- -- saying it down around me -- So do you think that. That's okay if if the husband and wife can agree to that. Good. It's gonna be different part -- -- -- new expectation that people up they. To come to grips for. Well I think one of the things that most therapists. Could agree on is that we encourage couples to really articulate and verbalize what their expectations are. We know from the literature and from experience that the more people stuff. How they feel about things the greater the resentment grows in the relationship and can overly negative outcomes. -- -- I was just speaking with a friend are a few days ago that he's been married almost twenty years and they had. You know what he says to me was in every five years we seemed and he got three children should. You know every five years it seems we hit these enormous roadblocks and stumbling blocks. And you know that don't have that those she's in -- in between their but he said you know we just finally come together. And we accept. What each other it is and we do things differently. Sometimes we do things so differently in that we get angry about it but at the end of the day. We look at each other we say we're in this together. And I think you're great yeah yeah. -- -- -- and that's what it comes down to -- both in it for the same goal. Hopefully in -- than maybe should -- -- But it did they -- it together and and did you Wear the same things differently or not. There's certain things that you want union need to accept to continue moving around. Joseph and I really appreciate your call. Thank you so very very. Renting another brick in a second but I think what we want to talk about next. After break for news in a moment. Are these myths. Let's break down the marriage -- the relationship myths. And also I think when he talked more about expectations I think that's very very important. It's huge -- right and that word resentment. And just today. I overheard someone say resentment is the number one killer. Of marriages. It took my breath away and we agree so we have a lot to talk about and I hope everybody is listening will want to call and you went 2601 at seventy. But now let's take go over to the newsroom and talked to Chris Miller. We are talking about love and marriage and were talking about what makes it work what makes -- disaster. And we're not gonna talk about really what are the myths. And with the systemic point of it was a licensed clinical social worker and Scott -- licensed professional counselor. Again 2601870. If you want to be part of this conversation again you can ask a question or you can just give your thoughts on merit which experiences -- -- So let's start on myths. Well I thought it was interesting. I was reading. Some journal articles and there's actually actually an -- On miss so that'd be fun to I'm just gonna lay out the myths and we can talk about them or refute them argue them however we want. But -- they go something like this don't go to bed angry. Only tell your spouts everything. Always be honest. Marriages 5050. Do everything together. I'm sure that's gonna tackle some people's -- marriage is 5050. Now marriages a 10000. I would agree what do you think's gonna. I do agree sometimes it's certainly. Can fill people. Concessions that it's not injured. Percent H and that at some points some -- putting more effort and others it seems. You know you have it's you know may be though wife for girlfriend works and how special projects and has gone for extended periods of time. And you know -- partner relationship. Begins to feel disconnected and detached. And you know with the what -- mission before with you know security Chapman and now. Social media were confused by what we should be an individual and independent he might be angry feeling -- they -- only that person. You know that instead of you know it's called putting on the armor and then instead of feeling vulnerable. The situation in and telling your feelings so. News than you do something like you know you go outside the marriage or view just go do things -- a few friends in and -- -- are not part of that relationship and then the resentment builds and I think as a mission before it almost snowballs. So let's yet. Well I was just gonna say I think the over arching. Understanding from my way of thinking. Regarding relationships is speaking of a 10000 test be 10000. In tension for the relationship it's about the intention. And then the load shifts just as Scott was saying the -- shifts depending on people's lives and responsibilities. And how many other. Little folks gathered to take care of all of these things those of the nuances. I shared responsibility and shared relationship I'd also like say at this point. When I talk about. Couples -- marriage. I really speak to them about the over arching. Predominant. Entity is the relationship. They are the dancers in the relationship the relationship past been urged and I I just wanted to put that out there because we can talk a lot about that. What you can do the negative stance to -- -- -- it spirals out of control and like this warning yours and his continues to build and and it's something new work from my supervisor and it's stupid name drop Bill -- of on. He was very influential. As I was going port slice insurance is that something that stuck with -- he said you know relations can be. Like ships passing in the night. And I thought about that thought. Disappointing. -- you know I had this expectation of relationships and you're gonna tell me that you know there's going to be times where it feels like -- dozen other ship and not the person room you know with -- feeling connected and that I thought about it and thought over time you'll would've you leave July I don't in the count you know -- if you. The -- wrote that a bow and news connect for a few minutes and you know that can be terribly -- you could say well. That could be just reaching over -- and galvanize a movement or running feet again there are some cheese with no but you know. Act comes out of the intention right intention -- desire for something to connect it's showing your home is showing you there right. And then putting instead of notes such is you know did you -- -- garbage or. You know -- the dog out or whatever you know it is today I know I know we've been -- thinking about -- you know that's so right. I'm lob that took it to me -- it's very sweet but again let's go back to that original thing have. You're going down the aisle you're thinking -- have this great life and the life happens. And the the woman is very busy all of the sudden the guys feeling a little rejected. But now. You're saying there there are ways to communicate to say you know we're gonna get through this rough patch and Morgan out because we're looking at the relationship. Not just individual. I have a wonderful person in my life and I once asked what his love and he said love is loving. Someone more than yourself. And now I'm looking at what has become a much more self centered world. And I just wonder. If we can have that vote. It's funny mission that out I was rather homeless into the radio and cannot I don't know the station owner who was that. She brought up this Georgia couple and they've been married I don't know 200 church -- something that was a long time and said. Is -- with what's successfully it would Michelle successful and in your marriage and the wife says don't fear to love someone more than they love you and and -- back constantly. -- dispute apply I really do like that because I think there's a big fear of -- that comes out of it what's gonna happen to me. Maybe that's a -- into the need and where. The caller that called in earlier about a need to be taken care of is that there if you know they were in my office -- would be about. What went on in your family of origin that would may need to still examining help you fill up again. Because I think a lot of people feel that their partners are going to fill them up. And one of the things that I believe is that we need to come to the relationship. Full. So that we can share and we can. There's some extra com space there to empty out if that happens and then fill up again but then that's the over arching. Ideal of the relationship that is gonna support you in that. So -- seems like there are a lot of people who. Lived there are -- thinking it's all about the partner and in the marriage. And then get disappointed if it's not perfect. And he says it doesn't live up to -- -- -- whose perfect we all know we're not. But sometimes we can expect it from -- get upset if. They art when you said we all know we're not but. I don't know about you see a lot of young folks today who say younger. He's young now that's twenties and thirties maybe forties. Who feel that they should be excelling lowered their standards. Are very high very hard on themselves. If they don't achieve those standards and I think it. Really gets played out in a relationship because the partner becomes an element of of a perfectionist stick. Idealism if you will and it's really hard hard for them to see that the both imperfect. Entities and that's okay that's mixes humor. But I agree. To -- -- earlier that. You know it it certainly depends a lot on the person's self worth and self esteem of a relationship measuring him. Well let's segue into another myth. Do everything together. Now breathe breathe breathe -- they think that that's that. I think that that's a little unrealistic. That it. I don't I think that's one of those expectations that you know we have an inter relationships. You know we think that everything is going to be as are some of -- -- thinking everything's going to be -- we look at. Love the movies. You know celebrities and commerce should be in and relationships and you know reality TV all that and it's presented. Sometimes I think love is -- love his infatuation and when that infatuation. Goes away which it inevitably does. Then next thing you know you're disappointed and upset that these partnerships -- You really like the person you -- when the love and lost sort of fate. Well and I think part or something that contributes to that kind of healthy give and take. Is when each partner encourages the other to examine their interests pursue. Maybe more education more activities. Pursue the things that really helped grow them as an individual. You know we never stop growing and evolving as human beings that are -- -- trajectory. Throughout life at least from my way of thinking and because I do see older couples also. There is I see popping up a lot where -- let's say one partner has retired. And -- attention remember we talked about load shifting back and a little bit earlier than it will this is the expectation load shifts. What happens is there's a great discomfort because one's working no one's not one has more leisure time. The other doesn't and what IC is that the working are still very active partner begins to feel. Guilty uncomfortable and building resentment that. They're let's say stay at home partner. Wants to see more of them when they in fact when we continue with the activities. So it becomes another moment -- a seminal moment and the relationship to begin to talk in that redefined. But it can go back to I think them. Thing -- saying about loving someone more than yourself if you see someone happy doing something -- kind of want -- cheer him on. -- goes back also to do almost as selfishness. Of the but you know what you're talking to -- -- is encouragement. And kinda my thing these days is happy and we generate more encouragement. Amongst. Individuals in our community individuals and relationship rather in the judgment illness that scene and sort of cynicism that I think when you've been in a relationship a long time. Can begin to takeover. Haven't quite figured out that it. It's -- -- a good goal yes I go I want everyone to stay with us especially Sam I know -- on the line when we come back. We'll take your call. We're talk and love and marriage right after this. Well we're talking on with Debbie point event who has a licensed clinical social worker and Scott -- licensed. Professional counselor about love and marriage and Sam you've been holding he had a daughter question. All. Are you don't know and to -- In the third you marriage. Short. Though although what Barack. All court order. Or should warriors arch. Solid -- question now what. What what marriage. So that's here. That's -- puzzle for you right now or did you go into your marriage with certain expectations. That we're not Matt. Yeah Arkansas wanted to marriage exclusion of -- anger towards America and what of the disappointments it's. What -- about it partners. Development spirit in this. Blow it work though you want back. There though should go to go -- much nickel or show and the Oreo my mom and attacks article should vote. And dormant charm which you know -- we agreed GO were Cattrall. And which came back ordered it on a beautiful. Until that detail on October. And all make most or show. What are told. And I'm on the I watched them from -- And it Scotland is just went from there but my questions you're marriage what is marriage. Probably committed to a march 30 year old -- -- package. Until after their vehicle. -- -- -- -- It's very upsetting is this really started going to that. Heartbreak senate the only liquid. You know it's a number of the year made easier Furl simply don't really difficult time and I don't know that. We're gonna and he just this year trying to issue questions. It. Maybe we could could we do that and pitcher number off fair. Her -- mark if you could get that I really appreciate calling in and I truly hope that this works out. Or is it does and instant expert but it's hard you -- here. You know. We'll take another break we'll be right back. Well we are talking about love and marriage and I love that now people are giving us a call because we have a real opportunity. I've talked to professionals -- point -- and Scott Bourne who won again -- for being here let's take this first call Patricia from a meat. -- Our. Brothers and -- like your -- -- -- should I believe it is not always station. Our -- I didn't catch everything that. They -- hit that -- saying. They're the sort or perhaps. Where's the catch the air and relationship with its letter. From. I have not heard that I did here. Last week where the Pope was giving a talk and and minutes he reference to mothers in law. Yeah it but it was more an affectionate way rather than let's all get together her. -- and I hadn't heard what was she speaking overall policy that. You know there's a thing call Amado therapy in and basically it says -- -- unconscious image of familiar love. But it's you know there's a frustration to frustrations. Of love in childhood manifests an adult relationships. So you know that I think would she may have been speaking to -- -- do you have that in that -- Well. You're right about the Moscow work that I was gonna suggest that also that com. It does speak to an unconscious seeking for some reconciliation. Or outcome. From an opposite sex parent. That will bring us the joy and the satisfaction that we apparently continue to seek. I also wanted to comment that it's not just men and there. Mothers it's women and their fathers. And when I said that I do a lot of work around to exploring and trying to understand the family culture of the individuals come from. It could be incredibly enlightening about some of joys and pains and sorrows and disappointments that children have. About. What they may have needed as a child but didn't get an honestly. Many folks are not aware of it until that exploration and therapy takes place. I'm going explore that in relationships. And you really begin to understand -- or that come from and and what's about. You -- you can begin to move from blame in and reacting to more of an understanding of where that person comes from and why -- -- when they are. And also gain a sense of empathy you know putting yourself this violence issues. Goes along way in and helping him and things that are important. I'm glad you -- -- empathy because empathy is so important for our being able to have compassion. Not only for ourselves and understanding. The way the cards were played for us as children but also for our partners in the people we love it's not about excuses. And it's not about Scott's we wanna get away from blaming we just want to understand. So that we can make new decisions about how we're going to move on I want everyone to stay with this our callers are listeners. We will be back we're doing another whole hour on love and marriage. On now let's go to the newsroom and Chris Miller. -- we are starting our second hour on the subject of love and marriage. The complexity of at the difficulty of it hopefully the joy it. And we are joined by -- point eventually say licensed clinical social worker and Scott -- licensed professional. Counselor. And we have had -- on the line for very long time and I do appreciate your holding -- you had a comment or question. Hi Angela thank you so much for taking my -- the last Collie and he kept it felt so sorry pretty when he said what is marriage. This amendment is still listening about will get restitution for him and he can quit crying. -- I -- in my husband's 58. We're both up second marriages. Hit about 28 my son's 22. We found a -- in -- together before we got married he has his own now I have my. We -- lap together to grow its luck and we're still we. We got married that day. Copy is not she's been -- Your own actions. That to your own actions. It not been happier has been. Happening -- -- -- only about 65000. Feel happy. For whom he he's been -- hand. And for a -- day we decided to get married until it's they're not be. And play from new. Bet she do why do we ended Baldwin is his music. -- and in animal bit and it can't go on -- And animal for fourteen years. We can't play -- That we forget their sacrifice. Considerably. Considerably. And whip it might be fine and rich one point. But we don't get me out to every day Allen. And what made a good marriage. What brought -- to get that many cheap fall in line remember that. He hugged each other -- okay he decides to -- married what. OK I can't that just went out the window at thirty years ago it's a lot in a lot of acts. And it keep it together pretty. Can you -- at that hotel room. You know a point you point out something that we haven't said earlier and that is. The couple has to come first in the same. Without. The satisfaction. In the couple relationship. Is that it's very difficult to have healthy children's -- -- view on how he does a great spirit until a lot of enthusiast and. Absolutely. And it Al. You know when the going gets tough the tough go shopping. There you are delight and I think I very much for calling I think you just inspired assault. Thanks so much at all okay about I don't know what may -- may that we ought to start back at the beginning. What makes for a successful. Marriage maybe that's what Leon. Well from highway thinking it's about being able to talk about discuss your expectations. Not be afraid that there might be differences because there always are differences. The real key is accepting that there are differences in learning how to be supportive of them. I'm talking about healthy differences and learning to be supportive supportive of and they give each individual. The -- grow. Develop that satisfaction. In the relationship and that will really really -- the relationship over time. Yes in in speaking for males it's you know if it's okay for new generalize here the we always we spoke about you know putting on the armor. And not feeling horrible and that can be difficult you know especially if you were reared as. The child and and grew up thinking that it wasn't OK to you know express your emotions or her. Feel that vulnerability and you know -- some my clients have been. Have come -- -- because of anger and anger management. And so we you know we spend time talking about you know accepting those emotions and working through them instead of -- him. That you rioting. A big issue in kind of stigma. I'm gonna say two for men more than women is being able to express vulnerability and emotions. I think that in a relationship. Did -- the most intimate relationship -- and it and it is a relationship where each partner shares their deepest. Emotions -- deepest hopes wishes and dreams. And have them held with respect by the other partner. That's the that's the perfect explanation of it but something you touched on not Scott to me is it's about trust. If there is not trust. What kind of a relationship do you have at all while expand them. On the story mention -- talk with my friend who's married almost twenty years and in new talked about you know accepting one -- do things differently he went on to say that. When he admitted to his wife he says you know we argue. We have some some fights. I find myself more attractive to other women. And I thought. -- -- recession that's who I thought if did you just left in the face and he said no and then and and intern she admitted to me that that happened with our two. I thought wow what a chance for emotional and receive what what an opportunity for that connection. Where you both had this secret. And it came out honestly and you learn from and you felt closer becomes knows. Well going back to an Angel was asking about trust I think we learned trust as children. Can we trust others to prospectus can we trust others to. Deal with us in a fair and square way can we trust the grown ups and our lives. To be a firm mean and recognize her feelings whether they agree with them or not. I think one of example I was like -- of couples as did you ever experience when your running into the house saying. Mommy mommy look what I did at school today and someone saying I'm not now get out here years and I don't have time for you because. What that does is that child thinks uh oh. The experience and having this jubilant. Sense of myself and my feelings about my day. I've just been told to. They're not important they don't matter now know that sounds a little heavy but I it happens it happens over and over. Parents with their kids in the kids grow up being adults that can't trust others because they may not be accepted for who and what they are. What about the breaking of trust let's say you go into a marriage and life is good for the most part may be bumps in the road but someone breaks the trust. Kenya ever -- back together again. Definitely I I think I'm very positive about it but I think it when we're in com. Therapy session or counseling session. The first thing you have to do -- you want to make sure to saves space where people can begin to peel back. And reveal. How their trust was broken. And so at that in and of itself. Is a huge. Bomb. Pivotal moment because you maintain a safe environment where the revelation can be accepted. And calm and the other partner -- may need to be supported in in handling it. But the end but from my way of thinking it's about look about how encouraging the partners and to. Be. Gentle with each other. To begin to find ways to be encouraging and supportive when they -- home and if things if -- Let's say the destructive event -- the event that brought them to counseling is still a huge. Entity. I personally. In the early days in encouraged. Clients to think in terms of how can -- be even if it's superficial for a few weeks. To be encouraging and supportive of one another. And maybe not risk at that time bringing the subject up because the way they've tried to handle it. Previously has not worked so the other piece of therapy with the new tools and new skills that we can use. And it's it's it's a com. Kind of reminds me of working in like you building a geodesic dome. There are many different connections to many different issues that have to happen in the therapeutic process it's not overnight. I think the number one issue my role is to be encouraging and supportive while the works. Both couples during gauge that process and whether committed to us and that's you know a -- -- you can -- can -- -- and say you know you know I'm I'm here because we want us to work and work. -- we wanna try to make this lusting and do things are necessary. However over you know over time usually pretty soon into the process I can determine whether one. Of those persons 'cause usually one is your competitor and finished and one is not -- once once that's determined. Then I need to delicately point that out. We know there is another issue did actually and when I'd sent to move them over to Angel. It's very interesting I've had the experience of couples coming and just as you say yes we wanna work on the marriage. Pretty soon after couple which are beginning to see that one has more interest in the other. And I had twice this happened where on one of the partners that I wanted to get them into counseling so they can be safe so like Italy. So the counting was meant to be kind of a handoff. For the wounded partners of the other partner -- Now. Partners common one it is. There with the expectation that there are going to enter there to get back together. To remarry. And it comes up later in the session at the other. Partners is a failure for parent skills that allow -- -- yeah it's on it's time I thought that accusation expectations assumptions the whole thing. Let's let's go to Jim in New Orleans Jimmy had a comment. Yet the the main thing it can't get caught. I think all -- to be committed. War. They're not committed young couple eyed -- -- -- law. Immediately it all. -- -- I think it -- the Soledad is fine but it out at year. Pushed -- issue of well it is indeed something and it. Wanna. -- hole which. It all. How do you live with it. Well. I want you people all. War critic. At the wall. -- Out of one what -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Well I think you -- you make a good point there and I think that is what Scott was talking about earlier that. Intuit in a few sessions you begin to peel back the intention of each partner. She concede that degree of desire and commitment. To making this work. Now sometimes -- a wind one partners more committed than the other. It's interesting as the less committed. Com partner begins to sit with the more committed partner how that that can begin to shift. Because the role of the therapists is to help also uncovered the gifts in the strengths that each partner have to bring to the marriage it may be they have never really discussed or evaluated in each other. When you know in a perfect world I think when you're in according and then you're engaged in an archived. Shouldn't you be having a lot of these conversation shouldn't you be saying -- you know what are your expectations. But we don't -- of rumors and they were in that moment were enjoying that moment the world seems brighter things things last year -- a look at the flip. And we're into that a special -- process and some people admit that. -- think that they're addicted to -- in that they need to continue finding that it is such an adrenaline rush. It it's -- Well just gonna say you're right the adrenaline rush it really is the hormones are really working it easy for us to. Be able to may be repress any of the discomfort we have around the relationship. Because the other endorsements of so much more powerful and we continue to pursue that good feeling that guy if you will. You ever -- couples saying we never fight and my first thought is. My I agree. Or when or when clients commitments and my parents never fought. And I having such a hard time. -- never heard them -- exactly yes that's but you know it almost on the checklist. So -- you know many a week before you walk down that let's go through these steps. Have you talked about money issues have you talked about the children issues have you talked about your professional dreams have you. He's run in the music will be right and stay with -- we're talking about love and marriage. While we're talking about love and marriage and I've just noticed some of these checks and I appreciate those two were always looking to collars that send your word by Texas well. And it says my wife and I've been married for over sixteen years the key to our relationship is not letting the unimportant things bother. Admit and apologize when your wrong. And if something is causing issues that are too much for us to sort out we go see a counselor. Thank you for sending men and words of wisdom and you know I think we need to talk about that there is help out there. Yeah that's the Segway and to our earlier conversation about. How much work it takes to maintain really healthy relationship. It has to be an awareness. Appropriate economists. Honest the appropriate com transparency. Being able to. Has some humility and know when you're wrong NN. Has some generosity. In support in courage and love your partner. Now that's it and I something out she says which of them is the couple comes first because. Clearly with the addition of children you are. There's another whole group of -- of the issues. Both than parenting styles and in eruptions and senator. Talk we talk about that about how to. Not just enjoy the process of helping children but. And enjoying them. But getting through. As a couple. Well I think Betty you know at the caller earlier talked about balance and I want a -- for more what she meant in her speech about -- -- I just found that that was so key. -- or talking about you know -- -- which it can be stressful obviously to have children in the relationship in the marriage and you want to make sure that. You're giving we talk about how couples need to be priority right or loses in the family can dissolve. So you know some of those things at that couples -- think about is you know simply making time to go on a date. You know when -- married people you know very people think about dating. And how important it is and and the connections you can not just using. That date time to talk about you know of the financial issues are and how we're gonna parent. -- the very you know it's it's about that time too emotionally connect and so you can reenergize and and get back into the grind of the week. And when we have children it's about knowing why we're having to. It's about being able to talk about it. Everybody has choices and having children is huge and and I think intentional choice because you're taking responsibility. To raise future little citizens' future -- human beings. That have their own hopes wishes and dreams actually separate from their parents. So it's a very complicated package when you began growing family it's not. This is just what we do. To me and I think there's a responsibility. There was a study out of England which I'm sure you'll -- But it -- and 5000 people who were straight and it and it literally said. That overall happiness where those who did not -- -- couples who did not capture just that was -- interest. Well that would certainly eliminate a lot of stress. Which means that they would have more time those that were child less. Have more time to. Express themselves differently either with each other or in there. You know. Own careers or activities and I know that people that. Other people may say there -- other people with Joseph Lieberman's other -- so selfish but what if we look at it as an appropriate healthy choice. If they didn't think that they were equipped to take really good care of the -- -- give but the the enormous amount that takes -- to rite oh yes yeah. You know I'm big into numbers as has national center for health. 43%. Of marriages will end in divorce in the first fifteen years after 43%. And remarriage. Is even less successful. What do you think. Yeah I think you know I'm kind of fascinated by us the statistics that two thirds of people Mary are living together and -- others. Various research on you know if that makes -- -- successful or not. We see people getting married later and -- part of that is you know that we're living together rained in like he spoke about earlier -- that. You were making sure. That it's right before we get Marion and part of that is -- normality again they see the parents. A lot times got married and then lived together. And then you know learn that it wasn't what they expect. -- know there's a paradox -- map that I don't really understand that is majority people who lived together. And then get married get a divorce. You know what I wanna pick it up on this because I think this is an enormous subject. But to everybody stay with -- don't forget you give us a call 2601 -- seventy but now let's go to Don names in the newsroom. We are back with -- point event who was a licensed clinical social worker and Scott -- License up professional counselor were talking love and marriage and let's go to Shelley shelling in Slidell. -- What we -- -- I hope she calls back. -- Debian -- chase. I -- how it listen to again and when he said he wants as more about the balance let me explain to him what that balance is about. Before we married we've got to 22 year old the twenty year old mine's 22 in -- 28. Apparently Mary we came at the same unit together has said okay exactly tour of the account I think it will contribute. 250 dollar 250 gallons 250 dollars 250 hours but this account. Is it this -- deep in trouble what we need to what ever. Account the vet bill. For that -- him. Indeed Becky toward the count indictment. I've got must step down dip it in Baltimore Maryland not only in metro New Orleans. And work. It works so if you have to. Credit account like in the like -- Need to. 500. 24 point I'd I'd put you pretty -- and in there. You are. Skeptical that you -- I don't count -- -- -- entry to downwind so when you want him decide to get married and here -- the children. They kept my mummy and daddy. We -- Now you're you're bringing up some good points to -- have to move on but keep listening your doll thank you. Margaret in Hammond. Margaret Thailand on -- -- -- the hand in how content laden. In marriage it is situated. Children -- spent. Graduating class of one wonderful. All -- and Allen and allow it not been -- -- people who say man and long term. I just feel like these young people would not go into this with a lot of men standing my grandpa gonna get married twenty years ago when. He explained I. And actually well most people can't see that reflected that and actually no it's a hundred. He don't act -- averaging you can actually. You also have to compromise about things like. -- actually done she'd like definitely like Walgreens well OK I'll go which had about didn't think about it. And it's been an interest you in who worked with one another. -- interest in TO like just like -- -- so. You know I'm like well okay. You brought about in I don't -- you know I mean it out of my account and on other -- and. You have great wisdom Margaret you really do. And down I think these young people it didn't make it out eating out again in divorce and down. You know of course some seven you know that we aren't out of jail without him which is what I think young people. Don't know how to do that. Marked -- go back and just. Duty. Huge compliment about. Learning what it takes to be in a healthy marriage in the fact that you told your grandson. I'm so many things we talked about today that it going and wide with your eyes wide open and with an acceptance of the interest of your partner and learning how. To share respectfully in your absolutely right that it's a hundred everybody gives a 100%. And that's what makes the relationship such a rich supportive. Environments that two people that are contributing to it. And I also want to touch on the fact that at the end together and I about the Caribbean together twenty has travel. Did not and hotel here saying he need to stay on leave -- -- and you know they have trampling you know I am going to shopping center ala drive you know I wouldn't -- -- -- -- -- so what exactly. And that's respect that's wonderful yes it's -- Margaret thank you very much for -- call and for the life you lived in this terrific you're right we haven't talked about the ones that if lasted a long time I used to say years ago and but there are fifty years that lead to 6 o'clock news. But again thank you very much Margaret. Thank you so much to take my -- appreciate it I enjoy -- -- Thank you very much. -- we hit shortage talk about the issue of I think I think the figure is. Living together has doubled in the last twenty years I mean it's an extraordinary number of people what do you attribute that to. I think Scott you comment on once used. Because it -- you know and I thought it was a fascinating statistics that two thirds of people whom they're living together. There's also Gallup poll assist you know do you think unmarried couples and has lived together for five years is just is committed. As a couple who's married for five and that was 57%. Said yes. And and in 40% no 3% no opinion thought. You know while how that mind -- has shifted to make your acceptance of people haven't thought that was preached in our. Author talk have also speaking to the paradox that the majority of people who live together and then got married got divorced. And what does that mean and we were wondering if it's because. The rules of living together are different than society's. Rules -- put that in quotes. Of being married to rules of living -- they give. Those couples a lot of space in a lot of autonomy in managing their life together. That I I I think what happens as soon as people move in to. Com a social dynamic that our society -- spouses. That comes with a lot of rules that people feel they have a right to impose on the couple and I think the couple experiences a lot of pressure because it's quite a shift from when they had more autonomy. -- -- -- -- -- -- enough but it is right now in the year about their pressure they feel from mother in law as a reason to their father in -- him. As if people have the right to do things when you're married that they didn't have when you weren't. You know a thousand years ago literally 1000 years ago I do series on battered women -- in the late seventy. And I remember interviewing Koppel who were very brave to come forward that they had this issue -- -- -- -- and but I'll never forget this as long as I live. They each set of their own way we get along fine together. It's internal anybody else comes into the picture of the -- life you think we're not coping. And I'm just I don't maybe that's a bad analogy. But maybe in our little cocoon we think everything is good but then the real world out there. Real world is full stress -- room money finances children and family work. On commercials and organs. Take a few of those stay with this we're not done with love and marriage. Well we -- kind of wrapping up two hours of love and marriage you still have time to call 2601878. -- point event and Scott Moore and I cannot thank you enough for two hours of my life and your insights and the work that you do. And you know the goal always is a happy marriage we got a tip from somebody who in essence and she's living an unhappy marriage -- never divorced and we'll just stay in an unhappy marriage. That's painful to me to even think about that. You want everybody the last last last but sometimes it doesn't work and how do you handle it. Well I think one of the things that. Is important to respect our -- that was the -- tradition in the person's coming up that might inform. That decision. And if that's the case then. I work independently. With people about. How -- can create a life for themselves. You know within the bounds of Meredith satisfying respectful. That gives them losses since. Personal self esteem and autonomy. That they need to step out and do the things that they want to do in life but it's really. Working with that individual within their relationship from. As tremendously -- you know to hear that it's certainly sounds like there's a belief system there that. No matter what you stick it through and you certainly don't want to encourage the divorce Bruno would I would have questions about -- You know what is it that was done to. You know alleviate some of these issues when it -- -- worked on what what has been tried it was failed. You're just trying to -- Get dispersant talk about you know how to are that things -- different in the past and you know it's Americans are working on. What can we do in the future in -- -- -- said if that's. Not possible because of one of the persons is not indication that process and not committed to that process. Then certainly you work on the person as an individual and helping them find happiness on their -- And you remember earlier in the -- talking about -- how much we learned as children from the environment in which we grew up -- I was wondering if their children involved in this. Relationship in this family or this commitment and what did they observe an experience and don't never underestimate. What children experience. Is far and as there. How happy or satisfied. Or. Supportive they experience their parents as being right. They are very -- they're very very attuned to that if nothing is set. I think that is a very very important quite -- thought. I still -- -- only because I guess I'm just an optimist but. Of what you can do to make your life happier. In a marriage. And making other persons like that mean that that's what it's about -- I think we I think we underestimate. Some of those little things that go along way and you know experience our own day today things with the war can and other relationships. It was family and friends and that's saturated and we forget to do those little things so let our partner we're connected. That were thinking about them you ought to -- earlier about. You know even as. And it's about our Richard short or whatever just about something I'm thinking about issues and you know you know this is I want to look forward to a date or something else and in the near future let's make that happen. We forget to do sings and we just get into our own world of resentment and anger and it snowballs and you know the other person resents that and it's it's too bad. And cynicism really creates. -- last entity. World view in the way we've seen the world. One of the things that I think is important when we're in a relationship is war. The one couple to be able to be honest with the other about their feelings feelings that feeling com. Dissatisfied whether it's with their jobs whether it with your parents -- -- Sony means of things you can get an individual down in the and it hasn't a residual effect on everyone else in the relationship. I think that one of the things that we got to do as a societies is just calm Italy's earlier you were touched by. Being at a church service and seeing knowing the bride is full of dreams that everything. And they ask congregation to support this couple on the congregations as we do. But I'm not sure we really do that out in the real world where encouraging the couple's two. Begin to really generate. The positives they have in their relationship and to support those positives because negative negativity. And all the chemicals hormones. -- can't really. Anything positive. You two of the best we're gonna happen I can't think Q&A few. Please stay with us and for everybody out there are code word -- 1000 dollar cash contest is coming up.