Feb 20, 2014|
Is it possible in this day and age to have a “Hitler-type” atrocities happening right under the world's eyes? The UN is saying that North Korea's Kim Jong-un should face prosecution for some of the worst human rights abuses and crimes against humanity since WWII. These atrocities include: murder, rape, torture, starvation and enslavement. They say his dictatorship…"does not have any parallel in the contemporary world.” What can be done to stop him and if we don't stop him, are we culpable since we know what he's done? Garland was joined by Chris Fettweis, Tulane University Associate Professor of Political Science.
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Automatically Generated Transcript (may not be 100% accurate)
Ourself our organ take a look at North Korea. -- a report came out promptly. I think united nations commission of inquiry on human rights and they came on Monday. And and basically created -- says that. North Korea. If -- brutal state that doesn't have been a parallel. In or contemporary world. And it goes on to say that the prison camps there resembled Stalin's Soviet -- dog and the Nazi concentration camps. And have -- -- so drive twice as long. As Collins go long in the Nazis concentration camps so we thought we talked and -- to better understand what's going on. We have book Chris but -- -- would -- two -- university associate professor. Political science expertise in international Paula that you are foreign policy in grand strategy. The economic diplomatic. And military policies state to adopt in pursuit. Pursuit of their interest. A professor walker I'm sure appreciate the time. Thank you right back. Tell me about that what you're view of what's going. Well I think the UN report probably exactly right to North Korea is a uniquely horrible country. It's horrible to which people to run by these psych products and but I don't think there's a whole lot we can do about the report is heartbreaking. But and and interpret you because we don't have a lot of levers of influence over the north Koreans we. It really cut -- -- them because we party cut -- -- trade they don't they they -- -- with anybody. We don't wanna be that we we certainly I don't know anybody who wants war to occur from miserable I think it's a good idea to attack the they have nuclear weapons. We just don't have much of a way to influence and it's so it's just it's probably gonna continue could there's no sign that the regime is -- It it let us just stepped into the future and and do area very very big hypothetical. If North Korea into using. One of their nuclear weapons on South Korea lowered or type treaty or. Somebody in the Philippines or even tries to get room West Coast. Do we look back on this like we look back on the German. And and for a while -- we knew about the concentration camp would. Who's kind of the same argument not that we couldn't cut off. Supplies to them was that. We Google wanted to go to war one -- because the -- in Bruges we just didn't want the experience. Moved. -- was a woman wives and money wise it's very similar argument as today. Is that a valid argument to -- The trojans lifting hundreds of thousands in the sky and camps. That's a great question -- you -- -- that comparison all the time all the UN reported sprinkle with an Indian out to have to sprinkle with. Nazi comparisons and -- is very evil -- -- -- a patent. But the big difference between the Nazis in the north Koreans is the Nazis wanted to take over the rest of Europe -- the north Koreans have shown no sign. Of wanting to be even take over the south beach state they can't do. They're very weak compared to just South Korea and they -- the last fifty years South Korea has had a booming economy in North Korea has been moving backwards -- Just north Koreans may have nuclear weapons but they can't take over anybody I think their nuclear weapons are for defensive purposes -- When you -- be first and accounts are pretty shocking people being fed to dogs. Mothers giving birth and then being forced to drowned children. Parents put into gas chambers -- of their children and burned alive. And Mihm being beat to death with -- hammers because it didn't work -- it's enough. 200000 is the number of breed in these camps that the adjustment. And the talk to us about this and -- the big question can and should and thing lead to import something should be and can anything be done. We have professor Chris that voice from within from Tulane university. Of proposed are often. Born of the articles aren't a routes are pre year's world who's been so fixated on north. The north's nuclear weapons. That is -- side reports of to a systemic crime. -- they're the bill every reason we should care that North Korea. Could develop an effective nuclear arsenal in the point now. One of the camp camp sixteen was right next to the nuclear test site I don't quite alone. Why we should be. He's so concerned about the new color in relation to this -- I think you're right I think that's a good observation there's -- I think people tend to believe that a country's great -- home. And terrible to its own people it'll probably act irrationally international. Not necessarily true. The north Koreans don't actually. -- but they're not too crazy when it comes to negotiating. With the south with the with the United States with China. They're pretty rational and what they do we don't they what they say is greatly but he can ignore what they say look at what they do. It's not necessarily true witness maybe he'll make just a little better at that just because they're great to do their own people that they don't recognize their interests. And their main interest is not to have a war the United States -- extremely bad for them. And they don't. So they're not gonna attack in an -- -- nuclear weapons and that this should that's perhaps one bit of mildly good news that we can cling to. Why is this oboe and it's such interest now I read that one of the odd -- -- interviewed a hundred people. Hundred survivors through there's not too many people from drivers of those camps. One of the survivors of publish a memoir and -- fifty more than a dozen years ago that lays out everything we heard from the UN. Yeah I'm not sure exactly why now why this report came out now I'm sure -- was just commissioned a while ago. It can be useful in the sense that if the today if enough. Worldwide condemnation occurs North Korea it might eventually changed the mind change minds in China. It's only it did the Chinese right now the one that block any effective action going our legal action going forward against North Korea. It's not that there would be necessarily anything that would be that would happen but there could be indictment. It's from the Internet. National criminal court for North Korean leaders but they have to come out of the UN Security Council. And the Chinese will block him because you know they they're not too happy with North Korea either but. Directories that could be -- buffer state between them in the south and South Korea to them. Yep and it for -- perhaps -- -- condemnation over time may change minds in China. But right now there's no sign of it the Chinese will continue to block any UN action from going forward. More than one of the things -- said where you. Must. Denied -- Kim regime access to the global financial system. Until it closes these murderers camps forever. One financial systems could we possibly you close your regular. There's only one way that we might affect the speculation that the -- the North Korean government. And that's not so much to close off the either their business investments of the rest of the country but because of their personal best. One thing it's been happening in the last couple decades as a world getting better at what has no question mark sanctions trying to take away in these leaderships. Access to their foreign bank accounts may be or targeting them. And we know that their leadership wasn't bad people like -- you were in America Hollywood movies. And labor detainees trying if we try to cut all there personal largess of their personal. Ability to -- on the world take where the passports of theaters circle. Back and start to annoy people enough in the inner circle the perhaps they would they made moderate -- -- we can't punish the population anymore sanctions hurt the people. They've brought sanctions would and there's just no point of that because restored North Korean people are hurting an already. And if we had that capability why do you think we haven't done that seems all Coca pretty simple thing to do -- -- have possible. A result. Right yeah well we try we've been trying hard it but there's plenty of opportunities for them to cheat and they can cheat or -- As a Chinese haven't been as cooperative with putting sanctions on North Korea. So that they do away that they did did -- the north -- get back to anything it through China there's only one. Commercial flight that goes into North Korea every day. Which is great you know whole country get wanna -- from Beijing to Pyongyang everyday. And and that bit and took any -- -- goes on any sanctions breaking for that inner circle happens to the Chinese. And -- bred dog and a number of NGOs. Saying that we should not be donating to North Korea we could weather be brutal weather reminding. He goes to the hierarchy in not to the people. Yet I think that's right do it in North Korea has plenty of well -- soldiers and welfare bureaucrats and starving masses so where would we give him. Money that they're the people that a lot of hunger North -- -- over the dispute past few decades the world would give a lot of food. But it doesn't fit the people they get expected it to get to the people who are most in need to get the people who. Are being rewarded for various political perks and an -- certainly the soldiers. But it doesn't get to the people we wanted to get -- which is a big problem. I -- -- not a psychiatrist. But this is still a question in my mind maybe you've thought about it. When you've got millions of people reportedly oftentimes eating grass to stay alive and being put in these concentration camp for watching soap operas -- criticized in the government. Are now wearing -- bright -- close but it can millions of people from from rebellion. Well that's a very good question and we've been hoping in sort of waiting for the rebellion to go on but if you have enough fear in the side. It's almost like we're due to the psychology the beaten dog syndrome that eventually people just power. And it's we shouldn't believe that they like and there are regime and everything there is -- -- extraordinary matter brainwashing that goes on to people do. They they they try to stay out of the way of the achievement. That most people aren't political most people everywhere hate their you know -- just want to get involved in politics. And it put it it would you have a government that shell pervasive so totalitarian. It's typical for any revolution -- get any movement because as soon as it's mixes agreed that says it's it's chopped off. Correct me of my. Memory is incorrect as it often times news. Would definitely have ever -- tribunals Cambodia's. Year old Leo. Yes we do and it that's a growing movement in the United Nations system -- that the -- international criminal court which is pretty new. After after World War II -- the United States set up the first ones in Nuremberg and in the big east. It's different crimes against humanity and that's what the North Korean government's joint. But how to arrest them to be a big issue to it -- it's not that they're committed to show up at first indictment and surrender themselves to our courts they would it would be an act of war to go get. And that would be difficult to do not know paradigm where of -- that'll be a good idea. We're better have some psychological effect within the -- and the ad hoc committee. Taking a look at victims saying -- and they're guilty and we charge them -- knowing that we can get them. But condemning your movement in the process Richard George from worse or better. I'm thinking about that I don't know it would make no difference in North Korea because not one person decree would find out about everything we hear rumors about how. The North Korean people have more access to lose the two way radios in the Internet that we think most people won't know about it. Where it might be marked by big differences in China. If in China. The pot any kind of popular anger -- towards North Korea it might affect our Chinese government's view the -- government action about what to do. Idea won't do anything in North Korea but it might have an impact in China. Professor always Richard time and expertise that you very thank you. Professor Christian a Pep Boys from Tulane University. More come back we're gonna talk about jumping at least I -- bench and they think. FaceBook. Bought an -- I think it's called -- that. And they've paid nineteen. Billion. Dollars. I get a big push in the war. Coming up next.