WWL>Topics>>2-27 4-5pm Sports Talk, keep Graham or trade him?

2-27 4-5pm Sports Talk, keep Graham or trade him?

Feb 27, 2014|

The deadline to place the franchise tag on NFL players is Monday. Should the Saints use theirs on Jimmy Graham? Is trading Jimmy Graham the best move for the Saints? Kristian Garic says YES! K-Dawg lays out his rationale…then the Cajun Cannon responded.

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Automatically Generated Transcript (may not be 100% accurate)

New news talk in sports leader yeah really it's seventy WWL. And out WWL and -- But 1053. Hates sports at all. To huddle up with the pros call 5042601874866889. Always seventies. Some -- I welcome the sports talk here on the WWL am FM and a WWL dot com alongside Bobby there. I'm Kristian -- into the big chief Deke Bellavia an explosive topic topic for you tonight what I told you the Saints should franchise tag. -- Jimmy Graham and then promptly trade him. Blasphemy. Hardly. -- one of the few select players in the NFL today who's worth at least a first round draft pick. And that is not a quarterback. -- players more replaceable. Then Jimmy Graham yup that's right replaceable. If they'll draft class point fourteen chock full of talent at wide receiver and tight end. Over to the Saints found Jimmy Graham in the third round back in 2010. In Seattle won the Super Bowl without a dominant tight end with wide receiving skills. What's the greater need at tight end who played receiver. Or help on the offensive line maybe a cornerback who can cover and play opposite of Keenan Lewis or perhaps another dynamic pass rusher. Michael we'll -- at a Buffalo in the draft. Losing twice the Seattle. Probably talk this coaching staff some valuable lessons in one thing we know is that Sean Payton learns fast. Defense the kind net Seattle plays will win more than it will lose. Seattle validated its defense of model this season with a suitable trophy. The Saints should spend their money elsewhere. They have a franchise quarterback who needs offensive line help 37 sacks last year proved there's room for improvement on -- unit. Pierre Thomas Mark Ingram. Darren Sproles they'd like to see some sort of a grade. In the front five to. -- resigning Jimmy Graham may mean the Saints could retain one of those two veteran free agents along the offensive line and -- street and -- dealt -- -- That night that's not too good. So let's think this through. Where's -- real value. -- He presents matchup problems for the defense. In the passing game but just like a -- in basketball. Grand needs someone to create scoring opportunities form. He isn't the offense. He makes the offense better -- much better. He's not a requirement. But a luxury. Now for awhile I've said Graham needs to be paid the question on the table now. Should it be the Saints who pay. The Saints just might be better served. I do a Jimmy Graham trade our first round pick may be even a first and third or fourth round pick. Not a salary cap. Presents a number challenge for GMs and coaches. Who would love to retain superior talent while shoring up the weaknesses of their team. With the exception of the quarterback position in this same situation specifically. Drew Brees nearly every other position can be viewed as replaceable or interchangeable. As an aside the recent CBA. Seems to have done more to shorten a long term prospects for veteran players who seemingly. Deserves to be highly paid but find themselves on teams. Who can no longer afford to keep them and Graham. It's almost a situation where too much individual success. Leads to being released because retaining them. Is on affordable. Now some team out there will pay Jimmy Graham. He deserves that big payday. I'm just not sure should be with the Saints. The Tony fourteen FL draft promise to be one of the richest and recent draft history and for the price those rookies. Are an absolute bargain. Seattle San -- -- their draft harvest of recent seasons Russell Wilson's contract pays him less than a million per year. -- Loomis and Payton among the best talent and I waiters in the league that's a fact. But I can't help but believe -- Graham trade. Is a real possibility isn't a real possibility their thinking. And the organization would surely come under criticism for letting an all pro tight in -- the best in the game leave the building however. You -- tight ends don't win championships. Elite quarterbacks in defense is do the Saints won their lone Super Bowl. -- an aging Jeremy Shockey at tight end. The -- to be better served trading Graham in reinforcing the offensive line defense and wide receiving corps. Let someone else overpay for a tight end who is a much of a factor in a running game and sometimes disappears in big games against Seattle in the divisional round of the post season between fourteen. Graham targeted six times just one catch. He kind of a 41 touchdowns in his four seasons in the world and so -- That number. Just as easily be spread out between three or four players in the final eight regular season games between thirteen. Graham only surpassed the 100 yard receiving mark wants. -- set again. Jimmy Graham had 100 yard 1100 yard game in a final eight regular season contests of points thirteen. What's more the final five games of the regular season grand failed to reach the 100 yard receiving yardage threshold. It's worth thinking twice before awarding him top -- in slash receiver money. Grant played in two playoff games in January. 4 receptions 52 yards zero touchdowns. Ten straight games you feel to go over a hundred yards. Far from clutch. He's freak usually count that right. What does value being -- to the Saints and it is right now. Pull the trigger make the trade -- -- team better. Jimmy -- is excellent but not a franchise changer the Saints -- had that player his name's Drew Brees the Saints can add by subtracting. With Jimmy I Kenny it's. Army lay it out there yet and I was wondering today. What kind of -- you'd use on my. He's here well and it looks like golf forum throughout the day again redshirt -- green yellow blue everything I don't mean I don't have a law degree but I think I came. Played devil's advocate both sides of the coin and thought I broke. Down. Your great piece that I've received a lot of homework us and it's nice and it's. Not even you know just -- you know paragraph notes in his by saying it's. And the first thing I like the Italian is that. Chris this might take me long and -- timid and I'm trying get started. That in theory this is all NFL teams you don't get rid of young and healthy that that that all comes in the play young healthy great players. You know not even looking at what it's gonna cost and all that that in theory. You hear old school general manager because -- -- you know you don't you don't get better go back get rid of great players you know that I've approached. Also the impact of Jimmy Graham. It I think it helps the other receivers. On when is realistically Jimmy Graham ever been single coverage big and emphasize the game plan. First off says he's established himself to stop Jimmy Graham what do you playing. In and -- coverage I'm talking about. A bracket tide covers double team are short long. He's gonna get them agitated so in theory another theory being whoever had the single coverage has to win. And -- is getting older Lance Moore. So you wanna get to a point where. The syndicate double team everyone whoever has a single coverage. That Drew Brees will find him and get him the ball but they have to win. Like at times like in a Barrett to the -- big tune in big tune. Sometimes and not win and we need young players to develop considering. You know Colston Lance Moore we hit that thirty years at age more and -- and that's all we need some young up and coming receivers you know at every no longer there. To stretch the field but. Okay that's. Look at it where Jimmy -- is right now and you know one thing he's tough he's playing hurt. So I'll look at the -- -- what is a -- that he dealt with. And I it's there right now that when you bring up -- -- brings the ball would he do against Seattle twice now let me got to go through Seattle. To win this -- whoever's in the NFC. But stud tight -- would stud tight end has been anything against Seattle. Native of Vernon Davis. You look at Thomas the Broncos and -- he got a local malls. And you look at the games where. Jimmy Graham got humbled Aqib Talib and obviously twice against Seattle and you look at the games when you break it down now I think your best argument. And I agree that this is that. You look at elite tight ends in the history of the NFL really tight ends don't win championships. Elite quarterbacks an elite defense is too -- on I believe in that hole hard. That. If you look at not -- all the time trying to deal for a number of quarterbacks. Joseph Flacco on nothing on the level obviously. Drew Brees Tom Brady Aaron Rodgers the likes they still won but I'll look how's Seattle structure outstanding defense. Because when you look at elite tight ends and you look through the air years and -- -- trying to tell -- they may be. Gotta go back to John MacKey a with the Colts. Who is an elite tight end that actually I was a big part consider wanted to best ever to win a champ -- but you look at the modern age -- is he taught against Dallas. Well I think it is like his numbers up there with the receivers. The best that a best. In a very similar type players. Antonio gate take a basketball player in the degree and cow ski Vernon Davis. Callow little. Love that bid and not the -- with the dad the charges never won anything. I think that's when okay what you truly get in bath. So to me when you look at from from that perspective but there is a number like I don't think Jimmy Graham is a word twelve million dollars. That when I look at Gradkowski. As they and I disease and -- as a measuring stick now he's been hurt. And it was kind of onus is six year deal 54 million. So I'm I'm just -- there OK let's say six year. Sixty minutes a ten million a year you know the kind of just round it off. And but when you start playing hard ball and demanding that you get paid receiver money. Bad I think there's certain Devlin limitation. Now. Look at the beginning. And now -- of what you said is that my Jimmy Graham as one of a select few players NFL today who is worth at least a first round pick that's not a quarterback. I think he has that kind of leverage in the Saints could demand. That they get a return a number one pick far Jimmy Graham considered. Just agree put up he's even hurt easily tied and he was -- Nolan tied and this year in the NFL and his upside is is eight. He's now like had this kind of season and he's 3334. Years -- and he's still learning the game so he's getting better and better but okay so let's say you trade him. For a first round pick. Gave effort from pick we get will he be another Sedrick Ellis. -- may be another. And that's led his hitter misses not an exact science so that's in the press goes -- Mickey Loomis. And you hoping maybe that number one pick that we do get are we use of who -- to trade. Jimmy granite city get a first and a third a first and fourth. That is immortal likes to -- but Carroll. Now know who I think disguise Olympic and even Carl I think he'll go down Andy and as the greatest Saints. Even it's a bag -- I truly believe I think he's that good. He as the complete game he's been hybrid safety you can cover slot receivers. If flat out but I love because he could -- tackle he he he Gil and -- he hit somebody -- they go down. And I didn't you know have to work but missed tackles well we get frustrated -- times. When Roman harboring and -- especially Malcolm things -- that record. Now you look at like you said the class of 2014. I've heard -- uttered about the tide in -- in oval where but I know very talented a wide receiver position. And how we still looking wide receivers I think Kenny stills and now heading in the right direction. Nick -- who knows I don't know they still gonna give an opera. Unity but still the talent -- and it's still potential. Not necessarily. You know the NFL level you hope -- worked out now. You look at. Winning is suitable. But I out of -- tied and you know at wide receiver skills you look at Seattle used that example Seattle is suitable -- I'll -- a dominant tied and went wide receiver skills okay. But I -- Seattle's completely structured dividend the Saints. You look -- Seattle structured I tell you this the weather can be like it is it's outside today. It could be this kind of weather are you could be in the dog or you can beat a blizzard they don't want Russell Wilson -- on the ball more to 25 times. They get a win would -- defense. Great turn -- and and -- using Marshawn Lynch. So they're structured differently that we are not the way we structured and have to be success the tide into a big part of our success. -- why we are top five off it. So even though it might want to do with Seattle does. We don't have the personnel right now to -- at rob Bryant is and wouldn't go in theory what to do but you gotta have the hospice. The bit to sell why don't I don't let everybody do with Seattle does I'll tell you. That beast mode. You look -- Marshawn Lynch. And -- -- is a boom. At that as I just thought throw another guy out there are no they are structured those guys are that much of a stud. Studs -- it's able their safeties. Now okay -- you go on. And -- wood is a grainy tight -- who played receiver. Or help on the offensive line. Not to meet just look at all the changes we've had on the offensive line. Drew Brees makes all of its on line better even as much as Drew Brees got sacked. But out Drew Brees and as a quarterback holes on the ball more -- would have got sacked a lot more so in theory he's gonna -- offensive line. Better. Now him. When you say. OK we need -- to -- need a better job with the line. I kind of look at the glass half full in this regard. When you look at they gave up 37 sacks. But now as coach paying committed. To the running game like he did on the back in the season. If you look at when Armstead started playing look at the last four games how we ran. And it in the playoffs nobody ran the ball better against the Seahawks in the Saints did. So so what I'm saying in. Regular go to got to get elements of my better mega ball with a line better. Is not that far off just by implementing Armstead who are able to achieve as far as running the ball because I think Armstead. Was a better. Run blocker -- and Charles -- So with Chris we got to go to news right now with them to come back in and break down continuously. The pros and cons to Hawaii should assign Jimmy Jimmy Graham. Our may be why he should trying get the highs guide him as far as our draft picks because there's definitely an argument I think on both sides. But I still go -- that in theory you don't get rid of young -- great players but I still think there's a -- it is now like judges give him whatever he wants. You don't have that and I was. Think in the approached it in theory don't get rid of young held the great players. He makes Dolphins better that's why were able to stay. And -- on offense and a big upside is that so -- Jimmy Graham is gonna get better. But -- -- Christians who went to break that your best argument is that elite tight ends. Don't win championships. Elite quarterbacks -- -- is -- I definitely agree with that. We have one column to comment on this and manager and hold on you can match and Kenner said dear members Janet chart and okay think about. Yeah yeah all that you know Shannon Sharpe I mean how the teams are structure even with the Ravens to -- they won't -- their defense. But he was and he was a great tight end a wanted to best ever. You know when you think about weary came from Savannah State yes all time leader but did that's one example which is a good example like would -- but. If you look at Christian also aware. You said. You know how's Seattle one of the suitable and and you have -- defense the kind of defense Seattle plays will win more been -- lose. And you look at their divas have model. But just look how teams are structured and -- to look at their coach's background. The -- it's -- you know at an ever be the same. Could you take. You take on the personality of your coach. Sean Payton is office of coach Pete Carroll's a defensive coach. So I I'm saying will never be structured. Where are Sean Payton coached team the quarterbacks all have to be acts that sort of ball 25 times. And take that -- approach we get no more be aggressive. Pedal to the metal -- while still optimistic. Because -- Rob Ryan is -- with the defense -- have a top five defense but. We have to be up to create more turnovers I think it's going to be critical. For the upcoming season. Now you look at. No matter what the running back -- combination what is Pierre Thomas. Mark Ingram -- Robinson Darren Sproles would -- gonna do going forward. Is that I think Sean Payton. That lesson drew his -- and then he will get his feet up. And that from the get go I think. We have to built to run the ball like kind of we get to close out the season the last four games. And where were able to do and the wealth that is is ultimately. Two win and a consistent basis when you look at that. Now when you match -- necessarily against Green Bay but like the likes of like. Seattle and December Siskel. -- just look at the NFC west the Cardinals defense Rams defense you know that type of thing. Now if you look at it. You know you'd comment about this -- Jimmy Graham in and everyone I think agrees he needs to be paid to who's gonna pay him. And he does make the offense better we talked about it is a double team triple team that all comes about that. I think it's market values around I don't care what his sixth in -- and his agent what he says. -- -- -- writing is -- and it's around ten million. Give or take and then and not. Twelve million to sixteen million range I just don't think not in my trying to get them but I just don't think that Jimmy Graham is where that. Now. If you look at their trade bait and we're talking about this he does have them averaged. I think. I would demand morneau a first round. First round. A first and a third round that diving Jimmy Graham has that kind of value again because he's young and healthy. And and outside is keep getting better and better just look what he's done but he'd have to be again. I think an elite great quarterback to have those kind of numbers that Tom Brady's Aaron Rodgers. Of the world of Peyton Manning tight that vs. Whoever you even a little road yet yet yet that's a starter but not necessarily. You know elite. Now if you look at. And I think this is true. And it -- so in general I agree with you would this and that. Look nearly every other position can be viewed as replaceable. There's been -- rules and structure I think a quarterback position. Is that that's clearly not reprisal for instance that's that's that's -- right -- -- Like when you look at an error were. I just wasn't available the Packers was still hanging in there to be a playoff team. -- -- this evening you might have on example like Matt Cassel and Tom Brady. Went down with the Patriots but I'm saying overall. And I actually believe this I think Drew Brees is healthy right now so -- does a lot. Left in the -- a lot on that thing for five years and is looking at the next. A couple of years -- he does stay healthy that I know he's a different. Whether you know -- -- say you do a seven in nineteen it would Drew Brees -- be eleven or twelve win team actually believe that so other positions can be replaceable. We've seen them a Carl Nicks. He's considered the best guard in the league who we let him go -- Tampa -- paid him he was replaceable my agency may we never got that I level. Well -- Ben Grubbs and it's all relative to the Falcons quarterback position. Is such a focal point now. You look at really that the players who have achieved the -- And the Saints who have not paid Alexei. Throws have been doing this and Michelin patent kindness his -- -- days. Jeff -- a minute as energetic game traded for for any way to Tampa Bay. And he had never going to Camby because it became of the highest paid thinner. Even Lecharles Bentley -- at the Saints but he uses with the Cleveland Browns in the hurting is the but do you look at it like Jeff -- -- go with the 49ers Carl Nicks a -- bush tried. And you know so they've they've deadly. Have plug in different guys along and -- -- line now when this is true with the salary cap and they've been as effective. I mean look at look at and down on all as a whole they have and I and is effective OK and they have not been as dominant obviously bit but it goes back on the -- -- wasn't here. Can you truly even though how the offenses rank and you. Can you even like may be. Kaczynski would have been difference that these steal -- -- of line even though they were our top five are I mean office -- -- offense as a whole top five. You still take that into consideration. 2011 it is the greatest. Show than you greatest show on turf the Broncos now just surpassed that but to be ultimate it's all about a winning champs are going. My column -- laid out pretty I think it's a sickly -- do you weigh in on the block right there he also Collison if you think I'm totally off my rocker. Mean I'm not bring some pretty valid points in the conversation. Read the entire piece don't don't just read headlines. Body is breaking down my column we can find it at WW dot com. And kind of going through a light up like a lawyer if you -- but body I think both you and I would agree while there might be some value there. And let's not make this mistake. Don't think that every organization. Doesn't have a conversation about every player on their roster as a player if a code of another team calls about this and always -- they're gonna listen in any say what's the what's the price what do we -- yeah Ashley. In return now. If the Atlanta Falcons -- -- a Buccaneers at Panthers call you civil and that's not happening lately lecture given me 51 round. Yeah if you don't like the first and third even as great as that sounds I would not trade within the division. Like Tony Gonzales who retired -- night and one of -- Jimmy Graham -- and Matt Ryan or even within the division with it can -- in Carolina or even Tampa Bay. And you'd -- in theory you wanna go inside the AFC go to -- archer RR somebody. That usually when they traded Reggie Bush to -- to the -- -- hit you -- -- -- you face it once every four years. -- you know and now we've got to -- Reggie -- next year. A with the Detroit lines and I think Reggie is getting better but then also Christian I agree -- -- -- here. That you look at Seattle -- has a lot of young players how they've contributed a high level. That rookies are bargain. And then that's why you talk about the theory frigates I think it's always a mixture of free agents and draft picks. To better -- team look at Keenan Lewis. A perfect example what he did does now being on top corner which can even Carroll live and up the number one draft pick and a different -- me. On the David decided a ball -- for the Saints now. We had talked about the Christen the elite tight ends. And they're comics contribution as far as winning championships. And now and what Jimmy Graham needs to the Saints. And and you look at the number varies who talked about this. That. If you look at this thing right now. And then whether Iraq but Jimmy Graham. And where his value now he had a planter fascia injury but he played hurt but he's not really hurt now like he's coming -- -- -- his -- Where right now his value -- trade value is probably higher that is Saints right now then it will be maybe ever. And considering he's deserving. That -- Now you broke down all the stats and now and what he did like you said in eight regular season games only surpassed a hundred yard receiving mark once in a final yet yet in the final rushes in the finally read -- season gains have won 100 yard game in the final eight. Regular season games final five games in a regular season failed to reach a hundred yards now. He was dealing with a plan to fashion a foot injury. Now he was very productive in the red zone as far as getting touchdowns. In NFL history. Kind of Gradkowski like obviously twelve million worth and reds but. None of that after -- -- you gotta get touchdowns. But you look crunch time playoff time. And two playoff games he had four receptions 52 yards zero touchdown. But it. Timmy and I tell you this. It -- against Seattle when he was targeted six times or one catch. And Adam if you look not as impressive 41 touchdowns and four seasons. That you know drew trust him and he relies upon them but to me is not a good example with the Seahawks because the Seahawks have shut down. Everyone. But I still go back to and we're gonna go to calls now is that the -- -- what do you think. Jimmy Graham. Let's say you get a first and third round pick. And not in the division. So you're going not a division a number of teams try to do -- who wouldn't want Jimmy Graham. Did you take -- -- third round pick. Are you take the approach well. If we can't get a for ten million and then and that approach guys still want him and I think that's his market value and not overpay for just that is no would you think to the phones we go Mike in the world on your on. WW well. I got the that might look -- and -- that my only problem is that I actually was in these sorts of trade the repair what do. Draft choice is whether they be. Or not. The biggest helping him out so then you would have to do a combination. Of made guys draft choice. With equal and -- we you know would not comment in place for you at whatever position that may be. Well Mike how about this. A high draft pick and approve a cornerback at the that that valid deny it's a good compliment. Two Q Lewis now Mike. Now as far as the risk goes there I've also seen guys get big contracts what's the first thing they do they get injured -- -- -- the production -- Carl Nicks you'll -- -- that the ducks GE C a lot of numbers a lot of money out there but you'll see that production. But let's not only treatise about politics at that time the -- let it -- I thought it was all ball because in my opinion. And what ultimately I don't -- to -- football I thought probably too little too good of a -- that -- and I. Does not and a lot of people -- some and to be fair to -- -- that was due to injury and he has he's been doing that MRSA but -- he thought about it -- Saints uniform -- he was considered the best -- like guard even better than it is all timing when you get paid the page arias before Carl -- that he could be both of them. But -- Carl Nicks is even better Jahri Evans now as we get ready -- to break. Argued Tate is okay when you don't -- don't necessarily like about. Trading Jimmy Graham are now working out a deal. -- did Jimmy Graham -- offense. We don't run the ball that well. I mean -- -- has gotten better scoring defense but can do it. That's what I'm saying could you use Jimmy Graham as a way. To get better no running game and better on defense of what what what went on linemen offensive linemen are a number of ways I think is number of ways to make it what big -- sit tight Clayton Mike. And David you to a 260187. Neitzel free. 866890. -- having this is sports talk on WW well.