There -- -- how many young people listening to go. 2 o'clock -- we're gonna make some people unhappy and all the people unhappy in some happy. Well we're gonna talk about is some economists from those saying that -- seniors. Riding on the social programs economy Medicare's hoops during. Funded by the young people from the lead in the old generation. And -- in here now predicting a clash of generations. We'll take a look at experts talk pick for tried to -- number one is that true number two what can happen. And a couple articles that have still learn a couple it's been pore over the last couple of weeks to bug gridlock in congress. And the couple of them say. -- brilliant battle today. You know might be Tora benefit and a couple of others say it could lead to major problem in the future. That's our organ during -- in the part frankly of suitable and could do very much into more talk about primacy. I just figure we'd kind of covered the water -- And most of the experts I've talked -- -- -- -- look. Privacy is there might as well get use to it is is just. It's like command. But I was watching sixty minutes ago and -- which has seldom do. And -- had a piece on about data brokers. Selling collecting our personal information. And and most -- of -- before. But some of them who -- brand new two million and a more than in the in -- Did this is only started peas off. It's -- over the past six months years ago and a huge amount of tension has been made to government snooping. And ball collections stored your best among all power and data in the name -- for the security. What most of you don't know or just beginning real as. Then it's much greater more immediate threat to our problems is coming from home dozens of companies. You never heard of all in the name of com user data brokers. And is the growth of multi billion dollar industry. That operates in the show them virtually so. There's always a good Robert Ellis Smith publisher editor the privacy journal about Orange and the -- once again welcome to show. I can go very dark here seem to be together and it's a good. -- I'm one. Dwell on six -- report offers the first half hour -- but I got Acura. Privacy journal thing to its latest one I think you come up with seven things. That we -- or about privacy. End and things I've never elected. -- on each and every one in those talks critic saying there's -- -- ministries did any of that surprise you. No it didn't except for the assertion that there are thousands of these companies -- I think -- few hundred. It doesn't matter Mega Millions and millions of bits of information. But oh what they covered with mainly the companies that generate unwanted telephone calls and male and target marketing to view. There are some of the data brokers that act as critical as the and they actually make reports to employers and to insurance companies and -- Those extending credit -- the -- we should really -- Those that are taking information from different sources not banks and not credit card companies necessarily but. In addition of that. Magazines and employers and a web sites and combining all of including social media site combining all of that. And trying to build a profile individual. For the benefit of those extending credit. Those. And just extending insurance or what's most crucial those who love art. One of the company -- talked about right in the very beginning as a data broker call Acxiom. Marketing giant that Bratton who's that it has an average of 15100. Pieces of information. On each and every one of 200 million Americans. And when it's six administrative interviews and -- -- declined interview. -- that it won't believe anything the wanted to be private. It is is this kind of thing -- usual were and company have 15100. Pieces of information on an individual. -- not -- -- -- and one thing about this area those companies that most of the privacy. Usually aren't near monopolies in their field and they're also very Covert they don't have a public image people never of them -- happens to -- And you're listening area -- over Arkansas. If blood of large gathers information from marketers. So that in my mind puts him one category of data brokers not a not as crucial to us as those that. Can deprived as a job -- of over insurance. And I'm not even sure it could look accurate to call these those views of what. -- hasn't. Thousands and thousands of different lists with -- names and addresses and email are. Cellphone numbers and the likes so that. The addictive before that can be massaged and sorted them mixed up in various ways. Two matches the needs to with a company that wants sole product and that's why we get now. Advertising that is so targeted. Quite often people. I'm not bothered by reducing ticket. Marketing news directly. Related to a parent choose and actually don't really is the source of most of them. -- that sounds life. Something we we heard Bob. A lot over the last cup leaders and seeing that clandestine. What do you think they wouldn't do it abuse it seemed like if David told sixty minutes for -- told me. Maybe they would have been spotlight. Are curious curiosity because in the past ten years America has been put upon all gone public when they've been asked about is in the becoming more and more transparent because. You -- -- the ability to other companies so I was curious whether it agreed to be sixty minutes. And probably got to mix up there I think there's one company in Arkansas it's actually bigger than who is the norm. -- -- -- -- Well -- regular. Think it is. I'm not sure I'll I mean what we're with the signaled that. -- Break we're coming right back we're talking to Robert L Smith and look. If if you're like me in the kind of thing. There's not much we can do. Go to the privacy journal across our god for -- privacy seekers. I think you'll play and some things you didn't know that may be of help coming right back a bit. If you thought you knew everything about those. Product can follow what's on the daily basis of the -- didn't because. I thought it pretty well educated on the but sixty minutes -- -- Sunday it's cold you can group gluten listened to the data brokers selling your personal information. And always welcomed surprise. Scared. Or interest -- in the privacy debate in this country -- call Robert -- Smith publisher editor of the privacy journal. Robert -- one of the pieces that really caught my attention Steve croft. Was interviewing a figure. Do you know what the group dual. Employee. In the public policy stumping. And he has committee said -- of these these data brokers. And can do they know our medications. Yes. Do -- for a alcoholics. Absolutely. Upward approach certainly psychiatric problems no question about it. History of genetic problems -- -- or heart disease you name it the most rare the most unexpected they know about it. Sexual orientation of course. How to determine that -- recent series of data points -- and soul and what clubs you may be frequently and barge restaurant -- maybe purchasing. So forth and so -- And -- and says that your cell phone whether it's all the oral on that they're tracking it is that correct. Oh well I think you're very sharp I think does that exaggerations. There that this is a man and our FaceBook not Google and this is the he's in the business as is actually it is the exaggerated claims and the masses of information may have been what they can do with a who has a year of medical conditions I doubt that they if you have. Written in somewhere gone online. -- about a certain condition or if you. Ordered certain medicines over the counter. Online that might be recorded but generally I don't think your medical records -- find their way into this -- your age doesn't. Whether or not she retired and I suppose that tells something about. Your medical condition what -- you've gone -- I seriously doubt that. What we have it infertile couple dark as can be tracked though wildly in the opposition as well. The wise thing if you don't somewhere you'll be correctly yourself on on but. It is there is technology now that allows restaurant anywhere. To subscribe to a service that will send out a message to anybody who's in the neighborhood about any special they have. Opera yes a segment of sixty minutes Nicole overtime -- -- inept and put into the players of their talked to mourn the producers. And she should she lose her home and a metal and back cold -- they back. Is does that work users to open. Yes the heroic. Shelton you are beautiful like that it shielded. I think you can buy them at the Verizon store it at RadioShack and some some people do that and that will prevent them from. Being tracked but want to take about two quick default closed it in the NB tracks so that the that's the essence -- thing it doesn't do much good to protect it while it's not in use -- and a dollar and -- phone. And no phone calls were coming into either. Live -- you -- of this is true company called statistics. Advertises -- of gay and lesbian adults in response solutions people suffering from. Bipolar problems -- my list in Pennsylvania. Lose to people without alcohol sexual and gambling addictions in people trying to get. Company called exact data brokering the name to people with sexually transmitted diseases. It is also lists of people who purchase -- -- McCarron -- India roads corrective thing. Yes -- -- our list of get a consumers there are lists of people who. Who like to receive adult materials people around liner through the mail. There are lists of those who have certain medical conditions and they have sought to get information about it. There are lists of those who are trying to get -- debt because when they contacts. A debt resolution service. They might be offered discount if they allow their name to be given out -- How many more. Will find him to give enough anyway because is no law that prevents. Any of these commercial companies from. Providing information either by exchange group or by the we don't have any laws to prevent the disclosure of years individual tastes and buying habits and -- that was your address. Or -- email. Now this is the one that called my more than anything else. Said that retailers. Or finding out that this data collection. Is just above his valuable maybe even more so than actual product or service they're selling. So those -- a whole new revenue stream that these companies -- -- the federation. No not at all now many times that companies will provide a free service because it it cost on average 4050 dollars to procure rename. That is associated with a particular -- so it -- valuable commodity that you giving up and so quite often. The list compilation is a much more valuable component of the company that whatever product -- -- This -- no one that found very interesting company called -- five solutions. In Florida. It runs seven team web -- good parenting today dot com T five healthy living dot com. When people share the sewers but then loser and help what they don't realize. Take five real business is collecting in selling the information. From what does god did working with Steve -- The big -- of two computer screen entries so and -- Tied in New York Times home page. And there's a bubble in this sooner. Of the screen that says New York talent and then. One -- two bubbles while their companies that have joined to watch what they're doing and then many many many other bubbles. That that with the visual. All need to what we're hearing and I found a little bit more scary -- -- if. Yup well recommended people they've just oddly browser on the Internet and see what's happened. It might be worth buying or if they wanna buy a product that might be controversial. Go to a library and use the Internet the hoping and expecting there because. The year is the number of these computers will not come up to these companies that number of the library's computer will -- option that's -- ago go go to. I don't -- and all of their art computer cafes. Around anymore would go to your library if you want a little controversial side or if you have no tolerance for the collection this information. -- one of the things they said. If -- doesn't look for users to give their real name. But the IP addressed in the computer ID number or recorded. And it's no problem go for data brokers to match that important mission. To a -- -- And their firms that specialize. In doing is that troop as a lot of people think go well you know -- using my name and. No it is no problem to identify the IP address now whether keyword is gonna fly. These marketers could careless about what to name isn't what you -- colors which look like. They wanna know what you why. So if they have an IP address and -- to buy a certain purchased that's -- -- because then they know you weaknesses and they can market to that again and so. An -- that you are identified in May be anonymous which you are known as a -- person who consumes a certain product reservist. And that hoosiers. Computer address and that's really all need to do what they want to. By -- who's -- job of web browser called Doug Doug golden it and that I think is exactly what they do that don't know who you war. They're just collecting more to look at aboard survived. And of -- Derek Freeman -- bit Q agreed to resume the government came in and said give me your records. They don't have any records of people why wouldn't they Big -- could trillion -- bigger than Google. A lot of people just don't know about them put their are a couple of of these. You're talking about Internet provider but they're also search engines. The compete -- Google and being who look. -- say that they protect your anonymity and -- not store records. People learn and that is just a little -- the shop for a conceded. There are these anonymous services around they ought to take advantage of them but will it would just. Willing to Google area a lot of privacy for a little inconvenient. I am watching segment of this from my daughter. And she suitable born -- the people who can think when they actually listened as had mine eight and experiences on the radio show bills say -- and give him by privately but. Wearable little unofficial insight -- people were -- and -- governor of video protein drugs -- opinion poll and we ask. Well no we're having our data collected Britain outwardly and data brokers are selling our personal information. Were you or not. So -- do we get a hundred percents of regatta on the common right back and we'll talk about some of the potential answers. For the privacy laws that world seeing on a daily basis. Bill Gates said the AM on the Ria. If you like -- still trying to get -- so -- loss of privacy in this country pulled sixty minutes and take a look at peace agreement Sunday. Scolded brokers selling your personal information. And we've. Have word that from Robert over the smooth -- publisher -- -- -- problems and Robert give back to the sixty minutes piece that I got fewer problems who drew -- -- for rule of privacy seeker. And get settled out of Europe like talk about number one protect your Social Security number but that everybody reports that. Well just say no I find -- insurance companies banks retailers. Employers -- very helpful apps for it. They may ask for a for a second time if you just say though. They'll back off most the time they'll say well we can't give you that. -- transactions in the and they think again at the field they decided to data purple blue and I don't think is much. Threat and giving away you'd date of birth so. People should just make clear that they're worried about identity theft they choose not to give the Social Security number and virtually every company bill was in the last continues. Find an alternative would. All I wanna do police say is that. Just prove that you are obvious that you and lots of alternative ways to do that including just reading information populated at all. And and you shipboard credit monitoring services in the number of other things did gives the atlas. Well look what got my interest was it to New York Times article I think we could go to Tuesday. -- does the opposite she's spent 5000 dollars I think. -- to protect your privacy and talked about how expensive it isn't. So long to rebut that showed that lots of things you can do for low cost or no cost and you don't need to. Credit monitoring service that's gonna look who look at your credit report to make sure it is no love. Fraudulent material on there you can do that yourself and it's guaranteed by federal law ought to be free the people just ought to make sure they go to the right side there are a lot of fraudulent sites out there. Including some run by the credit bureaus themselves so. The treatment of the Federal Trade Commission. For a free credit report. Get one and if you suspect identity fraud the undetected -- media recorder otherwise I think wants you want -- every eighteen months okay war. Before you apply for more enter them major. Credit he should you should check your credit report but I don't think you need these these monitoring services and that are offered no when are you in danger identity that flow at all are put. People who are more. Ball local or those who. I have shopped at eight. Retailer or credit card company that had a breach recently like target and like Neiman Marcus. You also see -- board apps. Willow don't pay for them -- these go to protect your privacy. -- to avoid apps. -- -- -- clearly -- but I don't don't avoid apps in general. These apps that promise so other than protection problems. All right in the idea of nor is art is something that protect this explain now. Well as the father of twins -- came up with the idea that think and to lose you know you really need to trash cans and you rip apart any documents that have. Numbers on them more identifying information is split right down the middle of the identifying number and put them -- not accompanying trash cans that are. Side by side and then maybe even. Dispose of them and and alternate weeks. I have to telephone numbers I think that's important one for the commercial world want for your personalized web two addresses civil work well from -- One -- post office box throw when you know the transactions gonna generate a lot of junk mail but it. Let it accumulate there have to Internet service providers. I think that's important. And one for -- percent to browsing and one for you compete browser. To credit cards you want on line and something goes wrong. And then you can easily cancel it without. You know inconveniencing your life because. You'll have your offline credit card around I think using credit card -- okay. If you know who you're dealing with -- if you just buy something by email I'd advise people to not put declaration to the credit card and separate email maybe even. Few hours later and I don't know of any single time -- in an email has been intercepted to steal it. Credit card numbers that the people who want these numbers want commendable they don't I don't care about them. One credit card number one consumer they're not gonna. Take risks and interfering -- emailed to get one credit card -- 011. Of the producers fours sixty minutes in the over time and section of the show. Since she'd gone out and told lies screaming they can do and it is for -- -- children. Surveillance and software called -- meet. That reads Foley email addresses that -- -- real count gore count. And pay credit card names for online and shop in the of that ballot. No and I'm I'm with you I don't want such over often -- one reason why don't. It's very bad advice for tomorrow you may find yourself lining giving a false name on the application form let's say for insurance. Previously put the claim that can't tackle him in Europe two -- so I don't and it could be conceivably crime. Too light to government agencies so avoid that. But it does another thing too when people Lila the way that woman does she loses an opportunity to educate. A clerk or organization. The people care about their privacy. So when you're actually Social Security number and you fictitious one. And the -- well I think it well is people care and they don't mind giving up and Social Security number so and I realize I I always insists that I'm not gonna give it up. And I just -- That those court will pass on to their supervisors and at least one person cares enough to the objective and so I I would never counsel people -- Certainly what the government inquiries and I wouldn't do that commercially green. Whoa -- the more interest including news that I've learned on the ratio. Is certain -- well here it's question of who you trust. I used to watch sixty minutes from Lieberman thing on his soul. Until constantly. Watched Ted dot com like most people scored tunes. And I've found. That a couple of those experts. Or totally truthful in what they're reporting. We're -- important not only by the privacy problem but who do you trust -- you believe when you re watching have been very different. I agree I think it's more entertainment -- news. Interest income and right back board they get one to get about pride as a group and an expert on. Who writes the privacy journal Robert -- submit. Portions. About what you do personally. Would protect the embassy or have questions about. Who it is you're doing business where does that. And former from we've -- the expert. Of -- 601. It's been told they -- in the country Cilic six -- -- you grow so. Went to -- -- -- about privacy bill of somber than Cuba sixty minutes we use that data brokers. So in your personal information. And -- Robert Ellis Smith with -- street journal. If you -- questions about how to keep your privacy of that popped balloon or Africa command and -- called to secure 170. Brought out. Oh. A couple of people live called in and one ago where they can get to read credit report. Annual credit report dot com I didn't think. I suggest people go to the Google Federal Trade Commission -- free credit report that -- -- Are one of figures suggest. Get off the consumer miracle around. Yeah a lot of product you just don't need five most most of the promoted to me is superfluous -- really needed and when you do that you get off on these lists that. These marketers don't care about too if you're not a frequent buyers -- by mail by the Internet and I also believe that go. And Nicole advertisement to get that's an advertisement it's sent to you before they're -- -- you. You can and secretary of the buy the thing you know you think about it and you go on line yourself and select the web site by. Never missed anything that. I haven't purchased by don't get. Do you -- in the future. Of they're going to be companies that are formed are apps that are created. Better disinformation. Cope with the everybody Mora were concerned about privacy. That promote UConn Dotson who won't creed disinformation. That that closes this data collection. Well I hope not but I think does CBS sixty minutes story will promote that yes people think that's a clever way to defeat the system. I recommend that people change their patterns for sure that will wherever they shop at different places -- phones sometimes -- The instant message other -- -- even though they are the times that. I hope people get in the line business but I must say these big companies are certainly pushing this in that direction there. Trying to teach or to the inevitable message what they do is that consumers should start line to protect themselves. Do you ever see you day one we will have a button on and it whip saw it on our our computers and says. Limit attracting eliminate try. That's available the technologies there. The congress and the Federal Trade Commission are considering. So called do not track legislation and the industry in Washington people Washington doing it we can't think about it but I think we will ago in five years do not tracked. And it's been proposed it and you know they're they're they're trying to beat it representatives of these companies that were described on sixty minutes. It's an old man in Austin yesterday talking to protect companies from all over the world. Said the technology companies have got to adapt. Under much better encryption. -- that come in and would that be. Something that would help or work. Yeah it basic you know that just think -- target an encrypted all those credit card. Numbers -- would disclose what do it's it's it's not too expensive there's just too cheap to do it makes they don't think you're going to be victimized by I think the practice to. Putting personal information on portable media like laptops and letting employees stick apple picked on the commuter -- it's just irresponsible politics. They do it. And this simple encryption will save us a lot of these these other. Robert always a pleasure to have you on the show learns something and every time we have agreed that. All right we're coming right back in thick. A couple of things I think we've -- sixty minutes does and what -- -- it was really amazing piece of data brokers. Selling your personal information. And -- -- -- -- the -- -- there some amazing part is at least amazed me. They get on the computer the pull of New York Times. And imagine little circle right in the middle of your screen says new York and and as you click on the site and then begin to shop or read or look round. Their bubbles that pop -- few -- -- in many many many and then almost X but eventually. The little bubbles grown tall company news. That are attracting everything you do and we talk about that most of us know about. But actually seeing it occurring. It's kind of creepy that it feels like. You you. Open your computer all of sudden there. Ten people in the room with the in -- 109000. And it it really Serb. -- pervasive or loss of privacy you. But at the same time we have Robert it was Smith. The rights of privacy journals say that. Something. In this group were totally wrecked and went to -- obliged. Do you buy it should be good was sixty minutes over and you're one rubio producers. Talking about she spent months. Try and opt out of all of this trucking went to a hundred companies most of them. Wanted more information to eliminate. Her in permission from other companies. And she says she'll end up creating predicted then that is for Sheehan and her children. Even found some salt -- called mass meeting. The -- Foley email addresses. And brought overdose Smith's that's a really bad ideas that can buy true. A leader Dave when you go to collect insurance or more. Applied for job whatever. It's a little interest and hasn't worry about a problems to worry about. What. UC what to read what two years that you can products. Coming right but -- -- a BO bigots. You moral part of the read at. Quite come back we're gonna talk about gridlock. Something we talked. In this country and Washington is hopefully we brutalized. But some arguments knowledge required that may be a good thing -- So it opens -- -- -- it's W you won't find the real thing.