Mar 31, 2014|
Garland talks with Damon Thibodeaux, who lived on death row for 15 years before being exonerated, and Barry Sheck of Innocence Project, the organization that helped free him.
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Is an independent “select committee” necessary in the investigation of Russian hacking & possible collusion with Trump associates? This hours guest: Max Bergmann - Senior Fellow at Center for American Progress Steve Bucci - Director of the Allison Center for Foreign Policy Studies at the Heritage Foundation
Automatically Generated Transcript (may not be 100% accurate)
So we're gonna be think about it of CBS show 48 hours. Eight results and they all know I have a real problem. Climbing and reference to a snippet. Did play god and get Syria but I read as much -- component. And basically. It's blows a show but Damon tomorrow. Louisiana resident. -- zone and goal is -- -- role for the years. Edwards because he couldn't access to a murder. Sentenced to death. And against -- -- the years on death -- itself. Aaron boring or you CBOs did the report. And a number of experts from all over the country. And its it's been a very and usual story but -- and story. In the water our legal system. Is facing Wednesday's. And one of those that -- help breed them and we think we have on the review with the numbers -- a coordinator in the project. Barry who would. Honored to talk to Leo wrote a lot of you weren't -- a lot of bureau accomplishments. Extraordinary. Very much refused and her. By every one. What do you think of this Damon too broad search words shouldn't he confessed. To the day. Well you know I think we proved. Would -- great cooperation. The district attorney's office Paul -- That's even remotely and they're yeah investigator and slamming you he. Including and Steve Kaplan. Frederick firm and Minnesota and of course. And Andy -- and others from the year capital archer. You know payment was plainly innocent. That we were able to demonstrate the DNA testing. It -- None of his DNA that was on the places that it should have been they're back. A great murderer that describe it is false confession. It was clear from listening to the audio tapes. That audio would turn on and off. That there were a lot of these questions. Provided information. To -- -- that he would otherwise not not a at you know constitute the bulk of the infection but a lot of that was just information could. It was great semen recovered. Explanation. Is in. Back at eight CNN. When you know supposedly in this compression you know he's accurate over and stamina to charter flights. Just -- make any sense. There was red wire around a tree at its current -- used to ligature. Damon describe the wire is stereo -- it was in the trunk of car. Clear that the investigators. The time each dedication. I hadn't realized that the red wire on the truly -- tracked used to so ligature. We did DNA testing on. The end of the -- Read choir on this truly get used it to ligature and -- And they'll. The time line didn't make any sense. Kind of book as described in the confession is. What can -- would've had to -- -- remembered its part the search party that searching for news civil. -- You know -- was in -- the victim in this case. That it really it was impossible for him to so. It took. A long time but. Every single thing is depicted on the 48 hours entry. Last night that conceivably could have been done well although experts in the field in on this and you know -- cotton softness. And left no stone unturned and in the silent about this there was cooperation. Forum. It this year you'll norm in which respected it's a matter and we appreciate that. -- -- or her -- think it was being interviews. A federal district attorney Paul -- had to be incredibly thoughtful. Exceptionally concerned that his office -- prosecuted in the Middle Eastern man. It was not politically wise to do what he did but he did it anyway. And these cases it often times is not politically wise to do the right thing has. True that's the problem is that happening. Took a lot of cars were quote -- You know where where immensely grateful. I would hope that the citizens objectives and parish and that's it Louisiana and the country be so great example somebody that's willing to. You know step back into the -- I mean nobody can -- in the rush to judgment be as careful as possible. You know but at the same time when he came to believe that an injustice had been done he didn't hesitate to center right. You know all of the information present and he really did. You know do everything conceivable and industry investigation which was cooperative. You know what these many years. And I can't begin to say -- you who it is. And dealing with a lot of these cases across the country. It should be an example for her body. -- -- -- for a few more minutes stay with -- -- This is governor bill Bill Gates governing any -- 53 of them -- -- right. Truly honored to have -- -- on the reviewed today about him buried checked you may have heard of them. -- -- of the innocence project and project had done incredibly. Good deeds. All of this country releasing people from prison often talent from death Perot were and it's -- the province. Specifically we're going to be talking to Damon took I don't next -- more. He was one that buried in the number of -- the people. Helped found ways to release him from pro user fifteen years. CBO supporting you -- -- or spotlighted. There's this whole issue that we can. Yeah. Rating oil slid sixteen states about the clothes -- proposed prison closed -- of their own. There was slice about 30000 beds out of prison six states. Have done well with the death penalties and that's been in the past seven years seven -- Ambulance exit costs about eighty billion dollars per year. To -- more than two million jails and prisons. And you know -- together word dude the prison corporation of the world. Do you think there's a slow realization. That. Housing the nonviolent people -- doesn't benefit is spurred him. I think that's coming I think it's here. You know you have. You know conservative Republicans such as senator ran all. You know taking two positions -- respect to our nets incarceration. And getting rid of mandatory minimum sentences. There are really you know the saying -- ACLU. So we have conservatives. Concerned about the debt panel grant writer Richard victory. Who was a long time conservatives -- direct mail fund raiser. Which is mark -- You know talk show circuit talk show radio quotes to. Also is involved -- right on crime and work -- in this organization -- so. You know I see that you know people on the right as well is. You know people on the -- to have come to recognize that. Certainly. You know mass incarcerations. Not Browne Sanders. It's not doing this country -- doesn't picture doesn't. You know really cut cannot crime. And -- that Nokia itself. Arts regardless of whether one thinks that. The death penalty it's morally appropriate sanction for the most heinous crimes. Since the death penalty it's been demonstrated doesn't deter. The risk of executing innocent people -- obvious. And it's a perfect example of that. -- are so many other -- so. Who you know barely escaped execution who'd been proven in the sense. And that. You know here's here's. The question is -- this public -- spent such as you point out. Our capital punishment is very expensive so. Is this really good public policy and the answer is clearly -- And -- at six states and six years to repeal the death penalty -- chance Hampshire will make sense that certain years. And there's lots of states which -- that hasn't been an execution. And many years. You know like California -- speech this storage and our criminal justice system. Just to pull the punishment in the system. The leader -- cents. You're in a little bit different direction and in view. Would rather not comment about this. Napoleon percent. Alleges -- back cup beauty you're probably world we've got to I herald when. Just epidemic in this country. Deaths escalating here in Louisiana and crossed the country. A legislatures now considering that the attitude to your prison term for somebody. With possession. Of -- And in some of them not all some of them abusive Opel board -- board -- courts reaching capital of the world. And we're proving that it's. Probably expensive and in doesn't Britain is an -- They report about him when the laws. Basically give lights and that -- Irwin dealer. That heroin use drop off the map. In in this case does does prison for a non violent pro American cents. I'd you know I can't claim and I am completely familiar with the proposed legislation grants and they're quick. The problem in terms that heroin -- shoot or written and stated a box. You know with the governor directed this entire state of the state. To that issue that his proposal -- mortgage tree and that. The increase in term use estrogen. People being addicted to prescription drugs like OxyContin and match. You know that supplied trying -- and Terrell -- to cheaper alternatives. And that has increased SharePoint usage. You know it doesn't seem to me connector you know to your cursor -- Mandatory minimum there are certain session. It Trulia you know great solution to problem remained. You know what we know a our whole history -- the future are the chances since that particular non violent and her. And somebody that nearly -- -- it. You know if you can treat the -- and the problem that can definitely be -- You know you say family it's state courts to. The system in terms of incarceration it seems like. Much more. You know intelligent policy. Alternative. A little bit aware of real world reads on this -- from Washington Post last week. The huddle and says starting funds man -- misconduct. By federal prosecutors says over the last decade to prosecutors. While it roofs walls ethical standards withheld applicants abused. Prosecutorial. And that's into -- violated constitutional. Rights. Information obtained from the Freedom of Information Act shows all of what is. And it's as Justice Department. Does not make public the name of attorneys who acted improperly ordered that the Clinton pieces were -- In the result it is the the prosecutors or immune from the -- Do you rolled into this when you look in the cases were were people. Evidence has been with older manufactured do you run in the regular but it's. What we do. Of course and we think we have some solutions. That. Would be acceptable to prosecutors judges defense orders across the board simple. One of them has to do what we call. And that is. Oh just prior to trial some months before -- -- -- judge should direct a prosecutor. To look at is there a file -- it -- in any relevant police let's say drug case and look and the drug detectors. Homicide case a homicide -- Or any evidence that quote came -- to negate guilt or mitigate punishment. That is indeed the ethical rule in the state of Louisiana. 49 other states the district of Columbia law. And so the judge should order that turned over and information tend to negate you know certificate on. And -- order should OK. Bit willful and deliberate violation of the order. Will be punishable by can only. The effort are -- now. It. So we used it's. To get a picture. Prosecutor in Texas where -- sexist and Anderson. In the Michael Moore which is certainly one that listeners I don't know that they should -- Sixty minutes street time. There's that wonderful documentary about it called an unreal ringing in the house Michael Moore story. He's got a book coming out called -- in quite some time July this is an electoral war. In the morning -- his wife two children somebody can -- and that's why the debt. Stole property. He was eventually based on junk science I'm it -- march quarter he. And -- that that the prosecutor were in order to travel global. -- Victoria. It. And the -- 25. Years later at a puck real perpetrator. Michael has said. He get that prosecutor. And criminal contempt for -- to war. And it suddenly occurred to issuing orders like that. Churches do and here's. Only punishment for that sparked fears that we are two. The exculpatory. Not people who were negligent or inexperienced. Or. You know even easier stupid -- just people that are. Actors. It is the real threat. Punishing them with content and getting them disbarred. News. We think it's one simple. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- You know should be instituted as a standing order throughout the country in all judges at the -- And it is -- federal courts to do this tomorrow that we Clovis upgrade -- solution. With the potential sanctioning of contempt order to -- well it's a huge. Do do you think that can get done there by members serves me correctly. Ted Stevens of fourth most powerful man in the United States. Prosecuted by the feds and the judge. Mentioned the brave you all many of times in his introduction. And they've played they've been withheld exculpatory. Evidence. They manufactured. Evidence that couldn't have been much more wrongdoing involved. With a man and a powerful. I think the does the sentence for the two debris most guilty yeah through one of their -- committed suicide. Was about two weeks on and on. -- non he'd lead. A big party he can you get done this congress smaller -- at the Justice Department. They may well back. -- in these cases of Arctic illustration. -- remedy we the order. -- work out because it's you know aren't is contrasting it was so important case with the result in its statement. Indeed I've discussed that is -- the try out church. Some. And so it's it's the case that fact is that. Injection well -- appointed -- special -- I think -- reported that he thought it was well answer. By the federal prosecutors that all of their church so and you know your obligations. Prosecutors suggest he'll pay the constitution. And one out because -- issue to order. It's you know looking out for our. Arch. Very -- unfortunately were running out we -- Tom love to have you back on. Thank you for what you do that a good -- sure there at the good news for a dual world organization. And I appreciated done very much great talk and nurture coordinator. A book -- -- rather Roby Anderson's project I mean. They have breed some people in this country from nightmares in prison that we're totally innocent. We're gonna talk to while among Louisiana and who spent sixteen. Years in solitary confinement. All in depth role at -- and goal before being approved and it's. Well worth thinking about the many people wanted to save many would just. One of these. Co founders of the innocence project. Bet on a yearly basis Brees walk or money from residences and all the way from -- to. A couple of years convictions on things they were not guilty and we have one of those people with the Damon to borrow from the -- vehemently -- moved up in Minnesota now. But he was on bill through it and go for fifteen years in solitary confinement Damon book should. When you're in solitary confinement 23 hours today for fifteen years. Received the day that should be testifying before a senate committee and this subject of those CBS 48 hours special. I didn't come. I'm going. How often does and also wanted to -- for you know a problem for for. It was it was a it was a real. Honorary experience. In one of the things -- call my home tempers started reading about -- when you -- been excellent re read. And they said the a line. Evidence the biological evidence proved it could not have been new and any former fashion. But I read -- confessed did you confess or or was that rigged and if you confessed one. Well I can't. For reasons. Com. A little bit mitigate losses. Yeah my area are not a civil -- sword of god. Couldn't remove -- violence there. Will world bold program that'll lead and they. Aaron Oreo oratory. The lady that did the CBO report on -- He gave an interview after speech. And Dave they asked her what were your first impressions of the game and she said. A -- -- inmates who's been a great deal of time in prison that he or use to holding in feelings. And not sharing merchant payment is nor accept. Was that corrected and and what brings that on just the consolation. Yeah pretty much. You know you. You get there and there's a lot of guys there and now we're all -- for the same purpose you know appeasing your debt grows from -- you know. A lot of -- and keep to themselves. Where their case is concerned. It's also what sort. As -- bottling up. Stuff you know that you know if there's a reason why. Speaking agents you know. More -- speak about it you know it's therapeutic. As well you know it it it educate others. Well and you know I'm just one story you know -- -- -- it telling our story from the bottom. Exercise. You know and starts war -- do we -- sort sort of make sure. All the. More are you sort of big toe while in prison unit Indian fractured and she had to -- two rooms you do in. Use the prison vernacular. In your conversation. How did you stay -- all waved from all of that for fifteen years it seems like. At some part. Just there. Believe -- something belong to something or for self preservation. You have to take on the image of those empress. Well I mean. It's. Marty and I expect that problem arose earlier. Bowl -- ports from. Station you don't not. Involve certain groups what does. I guess it's it's. Fairly easy on that brokers your isolated from the population. Your himself to Eritrea are day. You all here food as proxies -- have one hour outside hallway by yourself and contact anymore. You know its -- It's -- hard ball. You know and yen and question group's. -- is there I'm. So you know not as far as. Speaking you know -- artists. And artists. An occasional thing I choose not to. You know. Speak in the prison and. Eric go to limited -- would come back. Of her description of water and he was light in solitary confinement is the front part of the cell open to news talked to people who documents you can talk to hard. Total light solution that more come out of texas' governor -- bill. Big -- 78 -- moral 53 yeah. We're feeling good about Damon -- rove his top policy gifts of forty hours spotlighted him. As Vick case that'll happen too often in this country. Fifteen years and a rule adding cola. As soon -- today for the murder book young girl. A lot of people were turned get a human and by only true of the -- and they record showed he could have been the person. To do the murder. Incivility. One of grown -- should turn you know Paul comment. Was singled out buys CBS and also -- units and project. To have been incredibly thoughtful in the exceptionally concerned that result is might have prosecuted an innocent man. And the even Poland out republic. It was not politically wise to do what he did but he didn't in the -- did you went back. To guard look at what you don't come behold and agreed that he should be -- A -- you're still truck driver up in Minnesota or you would just make a living doing speeches these others. -- Truck. You know I whenever I -- idea. That at all. Speak to a law class or our schools or you know Adam -- who want to know you know. Tell me what it was -- The person in prison going didn't do business. Being taken up -- down to. Death row and and put in isolation 23 hours today what what was that like in the ring and what was the daylight in itself. Oh. It's like you're from you know Walt what walking in their current law where. You know. You have no choice but to look forward from. Room. Being treated. Like an animal and changed in. Put into a case like -- You know it it hit it it becomes updated day. Challenge mentally to just keep yourself. Up and running you know com. For the first few years. Are related more to do much I knew what part of wanted to must not. Came real close to getting my appeals. That's when merit in the -- up and speak straight you visit them. Explained. What she plans on doing and ma am or make the car -- decision. Just aren't due out later on and I dangerous. Continue to fight. Piece about who's. Or you work order with each -- can actually harder to Louisiana. Was recently with your ratio you think she still lives. Com. -- -- Although it -- point. Putting putting. The right eager to prove -- you know Shia. She never gave optional sport from a and it's it's it's really to do you know. And sitting there day after day. Waking up. You know doing the same thing over and over and -- date is. -- columns. It yeah continued talk to anybody hear anybody see anything. Yeah you you. You talked to Serbia regards on the -- you know you. Like Archie can picture of our wherever. I had contact with. In every one tries to. You know keep to themselves that the same time on the liberal. You know and and Marty -- You don't -- and you know. I would wake up every morning and you know. Prepare my would it read my Bible coffee read newspaper. You cocaine I would read my mail respond to our. I would prepare my laundry laundry day. If they felt. You know start exercising. Maybe watching CNN. You know those. Pretty much it's. The start you know -- -- our. Yard rush hour. You know. Our -- brought to sell. You know -- I would sit out there the day you read in radio and. When you say good lord double major one day out. -- one our relevant. Yeah you'd have one hour out every day. For the first three days a week. You can. Yet that power back and take one hour outside on the. One final -- from when you were just supplied both for the senate. You were quoted as saying. Or asking senators to contemplate what it says. About a invasion that even more for the war all while the state to -- -- person. Were willing to let it kill them bit by bit day by -- date through solitary confinement. And I mean. -- of the nation. That often take to other nations to attack -- for bear human rights violations. And people like Ted Cruz and Dick Durbin. Said. You're right. We shouldn't -- There I mean not you know while while I listen to -- your patient eating. Statement. Out out Cuba and and its way. And it was just. Martin blowing. We we sit here and we use other nations human rights violations and we ourselves. Turned the nose when they try to do and you know we try to -- -- our our business we don't want him here. But we have the nerve to tell them how to conduct their business. Well. We all nations like Russia China. Germany. Q that's where the problem barbarians common barbaric crude. Violation bacon. Well. Written Barbara. You know. -- somewhat religious. Sure you know they equitable and record their -- We execute someone takes fifteen minutes at least some want to -- out. And then before you get to that point that person spends. Decades. In this. Point three hours -- -- sometimes 24 hours. And we have that -- to try to do. -- other nations. -- -- -- to make a very good point we run out of time unfortunately. I guarantee you're allowed. Tougher than probably smarter than most of those were -- dream would be. Congratulations. On the attitude you have what you've been able to recovering your -- appreciate that dot. Come right back double to object. -- -- individual visual Scholl is next it's called open mind and.