Apr 3, 2014|
Garland discusses whether terrorism poses more of a threat to the U.S. than Russia with Alex Toma of the Fissile Materials Working Group and Dr. Peter Pry, executive director of the Task Force on National and Homeland Security.
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Automatically Generated Transcript (may not be 100% accurate)
Got a lot of but it sure caught my attention doing little homework upload and on Russia Poland and Ukraine. Who wrote it and it. Everything else involved and the president was giving -- -- -- in The Hague in the Netherlands. And they -- about Russia and what kind of threat of posed and he said quote. Russia's actions don't pose the number one national security threat to the United States. He said quote I continue to be more concerned. With the prospects of a nuclear weapon going off in Manhattan. We're putting our bread and a couple of things popped into my mind. She bit surprising that your major concern wondered your major concerns. -- -- the thought was. It be users something we don't know that should just slipped slipped war. Cute or you try and warn us about something or was it just simply. A reference to try and do emphasize that you can think of Russian -- was a bit. Well I'd do a lot of Reading on the lists and and I think there there this concern out there but. Knowing while we breathed in the media is so -- incorrect more. -- hero and radio talk troops. We always try to go to -- experts and we have -- with Alexandra Alex to -- -- would fizzle materials working group. One of the top commentators in the country of nuclear weapons and terrorism issues. I know the caller yeah Alex but I just can't do that Alan I would. A little Lex. What is it elects and. My full name is yet Alexander but a -- Matt -- Ireland like my parents are please feel free to call me Al. Aren't -- the name is just so pretty charred -- side. Are -- suitable your thoughts when you saw this move surprised no big thing. No prize. I can understand human year listeners who would be hearing it but. -- about you unfortunately. Still are days with nuclear terrorism. You know top. It's kind of parts of the court. What I surprised about is I mean. And that he needed. At that -- So. Date world leaders are meeting today. And they were happening at summit to figure out how to lock down these dangerous new Aaron Carroll. And I think just. One. President Obama did not make clear is that Russia or in the Cold War anymore Russia is not what we need to be worried about. Well we need to be worried about -- speed very clear is terrorism and we saw you know from from the pop in bombings all of it back 9/11. And so what I'm most worried about what you know. Expert and bipartisan policy makers government worried about is a terrorist getting -- her hand on the nuclear material. -- is the major threat from missiles Korea Iran and Pakistan and. Now it's actually not. What keeps me up at night and others and certainly mine network -- Global nuclear careers and not from -- eight up from country. From a broad set of actors that. Like al-Qaeda for example who have been trying to get their hands on the material. Are even before 9/11 separate decades. And we have evidence that quote on top al-Qaeda leader at saint. We get our hands on -- we feel like it's art unity he used it against. Against westerners against Americans again and our allies. No I'm not worried about North Korea and Howard about -- on I'm -- about terrorists getting their hands on the -- that's all around the world. Important what would be the delivering mechanism. -- to the symbol is when you when you pair up some of nuclear material we're talking here about highly enrich uranium were talking about accounting and as an acute. And quite put it on materials nuclear material. When you strapped things -- to the temple TNT. Explode that you can get your top your property nuclear bomb like courage and heart attack eat. Up a pretty powerful. Nuclear explosive device. Does that it pretty I mean you know you a lot of the so you don't need a lot as highly enrich uranium needed about. You know when you get that spot talent the sugar at the door. About how much I thought about that much about it unique. So and I -- is this the backpack suitcase nuclear device weak -- I've read that that is a possibility. Yeah and act. Barely enough I'm I'm actually surprised that it happened happened already. Would there have been you know -- that agencies international atomic energy agency. IAEA. Got its current track you know track where the material -- tracked it -- missing track who's got it all out. And neighbor or hundreds of cases. It's neat thing material. -- incident where wrote. Elements like al-Qaeda that try to get their hands on the material. Hundreds of cases. And that stopped in its its nuclear tear it up sitting in Fort Knox. It's getting sprinkled around the world in countries that are not and here at America. That is my query that they're the black market out there or we know people are trying to get their hands on it and it all over the world. What what do they do with Bret -- NC forum put blasting cap on. If it actually you can create a pretty mean you can Google it currently and when the. And no one actually I didn't. Sure until the end this is gonna pay me to visit and now. It you're talking you're being tractor and I think -- carry them on my out on a lot Daly didn't. I mean it's pretty simple I mean think about done and -- about mechanism mark. And replace the adamant in exports are to begin eaten up and -- bomb. It TNT with some kind of explicit. And some of the material -- rich uranium or plutonium that. But it's not going to be pretty it's not endearment sophisticated nuclear bomb. It'll quote unquote future. All right -- limit take -- break and look at the listeners out there there -- a number of you saying. While the very fact that you're talking about this who's gonna causes terror strike you know like like. Alec said. You get on the Internet right now learn how to mimic bomb. Rebuke talk true. Doesn't initiated terrorists are trying to do this. And I think you would learn more about what we get educated. More about it maybe who knows accidentally. We we held. Making sure the sudden car covered -- -- brigades have real mobile five to reopen would come right. But think oral Orleans says the same initial. Thoughts and response and I did. Our daily double to be real privilege more opinion poll. Ask President Obama says he's concerned about nuclear detonation. In Manhattan. Is this and all of the cup for more or real for a 57%. And and the percentages of for the interview. Were up in the 70%. Say it's on all of the cup from mark but as always. We don't rely on the meet you would go to the expert Jim -- about Alexandra Alex Toma who is widowed. The missile -- working group should for the top commentators in the country on nuclear weapons. And terrorism issues and Alex dude. The initial thought of -- -- just off the -- wrong this is real for. Yes at a rate currently at the talked about and before the break and I am you know there have been over 2000 confirmed. -- People trying to get their hands on and the material from the nuclear bombs there at the black market program and we know that al-Qaeda is actively seeking to get -- out. -- mean to me and we get in -- Bear bear with media. And searching my memory. But I think it was back in 2003. Of watching a new over a document. And what they did they -- all of the world talking to nuclear experts about something called dirty bomb. And I had no idea what that -- in the game club hypothetical. Situations that they illustrated. Couple people. And the main square in London. Him than him right now of course like their parents thank you so much about his work. Problem draw opened pickup truck the got a backpack they -- alive I'm 131 chromium to one wrapped in chief for. Putted out and walk away with a remote detonator blow it up. Maybe a couple of people get killed or injured cloud moves up radioactive cloud goes growth detained thirty years later some people. Actually get cancer but that was about it on on the surface. What they pointed -- they would have to dig up Trafalgar Square. Because the back plight. Was too long they couldn't do anything but does Roy Eagles were in and break it up. And you went on to borrow plugged as all over the world was that in the exert your exaggeration. Now I mean that's exactly right. And as people do not play Jarrett and nutrients. Thinking about it's -- in app but that's. At what happened that that that dirty church is what you're talking about currently does that speak clear days. That -- on news. Is different banning nuclear bomb in the it's it's. And keeping radiological material that's stuff we use in -- street in medical purposes you know. And that nuclear bomb obviously like it it it it would be much more. -- -- -- explosion but like he's I mean you need to kill people the servants. -- -- -- Unable duly and so like you said that's not eat I mean it's. -- Butler Bernard -- but they're very possible unfortunately. With the -- the recent bringing that -- up with them -- pew. Burned himself into my memory because. -- if I can imagine terrorists having a real problem getting it is bowl material for nuclear. But in the no vote will report. They interviewed at the time -- June with the United States John Ashcroft and said something very interest and you said wind. The collapse of the Soviet Union occurred. They had built. Thousands of June race purses Soviets. Put on -- all blue turban things on on truck. On the back should try to run a lot to former former use them because it couldn't electricity too and Monday. When they ran out and Giroux wasn't producing an open surgery they had another one. And he said the were tens of the whole essence of the all over Russia and a dirty bomb from the remnants of one of these would be very easy to construct. If my memory correct is is that a possibility. Unfortunately. Yeah. And yet -- speaking to you about it's I mean my you know my family Eric teachers and their artists like. Nobody want to tackle Alex at the dinner at my putt about an app but you -- dog. I'm happy to continue to have a statement on it ought to come and -- you're guaranteed loans. And compassionate and you're there hi -- He's staying. -- about it before angle and you know were in somebody's gonna use -- -- care about -- yet some think about it isn't something and and so. I assume nobody thought -- -- -- giving farmers in the US the parties things. You know it's gonna happen just like about you know when you are hot -- -- doctor's not as -- -- the bio -- -- -- like yell -- things that the buyer and a symbol. That's retail optical material about the spout out in hospitals across the world back in easily be strapped -- -- create what you're talking about -- -- And the end of the dirty bomb goes off without first explained that the people. They simply going to be horrible did you said the couple people killed or injured -- -- no big thing and that one. That's -- -- can you imagine. If they did real Wall Street Chicago Board of Trade or in the field icon of the United States. And they had to dig get out they had destroyed because a have polite probe cesium or whatever it is a thousand years. What can people take the money from the bank concluded under a mattress with that -- Exactly now here I mean that's the thing is in the rookie mark steps on the line and that's exactly what happened I mean think about happening. But they you know dot circuit we have another nuclear device stopped anywhere in Tina Garland thing Marty your eyes. Patent sharing you know New Year's Eve ball whatever the matter could happen anywhere. The ports -- closed and what about our right. -- -- If something happened anywhere in the United States all the ports in the electorate enclosed. That would impact trade jobs and job security. Well that's. So -- commerce it out and back I remember I was in graduate school when 9/11 happened and a friend you know colleague student -- student. What the way went away back home to a country in the Middle East and he was an odd package and I mean -- -- a legitimate you know these but he definitely want to carry it as I was the sweetest -- -- And America but no you know and so I think there's a lot more and -- -- I -- What if something happens again -- and then. Do we know it's not an. And -- happen in Philadelphia or Chicago or Seattle and so I think you know society in a locked down even more and we thought happened right after 9/11 that the Patriot Act. And certain teachers and things like act so. I think there's a lot of and locations that are and secondary tertiary that that are really -- our society and the way we let. One final push and and and this is asking for a personal opinion of which -- I wanna give don't have. When I think about the dirty bombs saga that. Even with the all the Homeland Security. Measures we have in place on the border. We've still got over a thousand people coming in every day from experts I talked to. And in by the walked across with a backpack. Because we got lucky at the short and striking if you honestly am there's -- -- -- that would. I don't know that it hasn't been tried to nine -- -- from against sort of from my book signing and talking your expert that in. You know -- mine. I mean and candidate in New York -- been a couple of foiled plot. That we know and I am sure a lot of that is -- the I'd untethered even more that we don't. Out Alex. Which come New Orleans for a couple years -- -- -- -- People. Like if you're sitting -- -- -- would you -- cross -- beer when you come. Apartment on her head that says look -- thoroughly enjoyed the interview you have great. -- currently happening to our note to Garland. Do a happy shoes to move. Her -- -- but -- got to schedule would go one more expert. On nuclear on the subjects. Covered up -- big celebrity -- five Korea. Pulitzer -- we go to takeovers in the minority of the paid much attention to it. President Obama making his speech in The Hague in the Netherlands who was asked about Russia Crimea and all the controversy. And he said -- Russia's actions don't pose the number one national security threat to the United States. He said quote pie continue to be much more concerned with the prospect. Of a nuclear weapon going off in Manhattan. And I think most of you were like me initially I've changed -- -- you have an odd according to our poll. Our parolee -- -- -- -- double double of the Opel that we do everything he says and a half. President Obama thinks it's did some big threat new being detonated in Manhattan. Woods had an off the cuff remarks by the president or -- threat. 61%. Abuse say absolutely all the -- room. We're always -- in the experts to veterans and these complicated issues mixtures that we know blown out of proportion. -- -- bigger than they are. Thankfully we able to convince doctor Peter pride and -- in this for a short while executive director. Of the task force on national and Homeland Security. Congressional advisory board dedicated to protecting the United States from weapons of mass destruction also. The author of numerous books including the recently published books apocalypse. Unknown. And electorate. Armageddon. Doctor welcome to show or appreciate the time. -- The merge our our listeners at least do order are little and scientific poll says the president just make an all. And comments know no real big threat he didn't mean that. What are your -- Well I don't think -- was also a remark contract you can. There's concrete prove that the president meant it when he raised the threat of a nuclear weapon going off in Manhattan. Because. That is. Under the department of home security we have a number of national what are called national emergency planning -- And they are the side line for federal state and local emergency planning. Resource -- picture in a couple of and that number one scenario. Including under the Obama administration. Is the possibility of terrorist nuclear weapons being detonated in major American city. And this isn't just the scenario that he inherited from the Bush Administration. All the administration White House itself as in fact I think there was an article in the New York Times about this a couple of years ago. Beginning what he tent that purple. That would result. Quietly disseminated XT level emergency planners all over the country because they didn't want to -- Get people are right. But it basically. -- that how to deal with would that be a nuclear weapon terrorist nuclear weapon detonated major city. So that is. Literally not just an off the cuff remark about the White House has you know put a lot of effort quote there's there's studies. This has the current tour the white house on. Sent to state. Federal and state emergency planners to cope with the terrorist weapon in -- city and of course one of the paper targets of terrorists is is in your city. We -- part experience. -- But the president. Remarks continued. You know I've watched the -- that today he said but we've taken steps to basically illuminates for. Well so of course all the work that fact and that certainly untrue. I think what the president has and mine is -- Into group agreement that he has -- Iran because our our biggest concern is that you know want to be in the world's leading sponsor international terrorist. The concern is that the rockets bombs they would have to terrorists who -- -- -- and kept. But -- Very few people think this into agreement does any -- but it certainly has eliminated the threat that. And -- it -- as -- prep work because Iran Michael kept the Arctic the administration has grossly address these. The -- the sophistication. On nuclear weapons. -- Doctorow which I had your own for a couple of hours let me take our first break when -- -- -- -- if you would explain the view co -- wow we talk and missile of talk about Roland. Is there really anything called suitcase bomb or backpack bomb coming right back Garland -- them -- -- would call -- that linked. We have now verified that I was absolutely wrong when I heard the president. Thing was earlier this week or last week. -- a quote I continued to be concerned. Most concerned Bob when it comes from a security. Over the prospect of a nuclear weapon going all in Manhattan. I just thought it was an all the comment altered cup comment. Well we have our second expert who via our windows. Do it's as well it is a real threat we have doctor -- witnessed. Executive director of the task force on national and Homeland Security at congressional advisory board. Author of a lot of books including recently published books apocalypse unknown. And electrical Armageddon. Both for a -- Gotta get your back on the talk about the books and later today. Will be fascinated by Greg the question is if it is a threat. What's the mechanism. Missile drones. Ordered -- or something. Really a nuclear suitcase. Sure they could be all the one concern that nuclear suitcase spotlight. I was a participated in hearings before house armed services committee that we held during the late 1990s. When general Alexander lebed who received a Russian general in charge of fourteen told a congressional delegation. The Russian built nuclear suitcase bombs. That is that is to say nuclear weapons the current design disguised to look like a normal 21 victory operate. In the fortune in the process of the collapse of the Soviet Union according to let it. Over hundreds of these were missing. And world war it was concerned the secret fall into the hands of terrorists. We have our -- Series of hearings on that and no -- -- depended. Vote for -- -- scientists knew the design these weapons came to congress testified that they were real Russia has built. -- visiting Washington you go to the that we have a museum your corporate -- In the photograph of mock up of what a Russian nuclear suitcase bomb might look like. And so that's one way it could happen to her like get their hands on that we know well I don't actually trying to get there it's those. After a lot of that was a better picture or more sophisticated they say that terrorists could do as well. If Iran for apple gave them more war at this scud missile and terrorist already got missiles -- these errors in game and -- -- missiles. After all Iraq. A number of subtle change scud missiles were missing and the Taliban helped them. All the people need you had a -- the pool with the war were if you could not freezer but launcher -- freighter. And if you want to really do more damage just picking -- city. You know you could watch that high altitude. They pulled an altitude of 30 kilometers over the eastern coast anywhere East Coast of the United States and that would quote that their. The -- -- detonation -- called electromagnetic pulse which is like super energetic radio waves far electronics. You area caught the power -- grid collapsed in the eastern United States -- infielders. With catastrophic consequences as a -- population. People -- used to sure. He survived those but -- by nuclear -- would likely -- well read in years. And we can answer why is this society without electricity. In certain 5% electricity. -- it's produced by eastern great. So they did that took up the eastern re back with the -- -- -- -- -- -- -- It could destroy the whole country for all practical purposes that we have seen a while actually practiced this -- You know we have seen the -- it's got missile. Operator in the Caspian Sea. And detonated it high altitude but they -- -- -- nuclear action but we're just an industry group of high altitude -- This is exactly what -- need once they get the new. And the it has been reported you know Iran is now. Up patrol people patrols -- the East Coast -- the great state. Running ships are are currently all our hopes they they have announced their intention to continue to have a naval presence off our clothes. But we don't think that it is in the capsule from crucial -- -- need be shipped. You know because that would be obvious that it came but we our fear of the congressionally MP -- what it would use freighter they -- all flagged freighter. That we that we could be not so we wouldn't even know protect. So those are you know range concerns of course if you didn't want to duke attack if you had the war at that -- but also. Could. Lob missiles which recipient -- without. But the most damage in the most effective. Would be the he attacks all the options you mentioned are a plausible options for terrorist attack. Go to but at one other topic here I mean. What -- the most disturbing thing about. President Obama's statement to me is that he was using it to compare and contrast to elections situation the Russian threat. You know against Ukraine in NATO Europe. Basically dismissed. Saying well I'm not worried about that certainly aware of this terrorist attack and it should be worried about New Yorkers. Know however. You know PR battle in actual crisis with Russia's threat Ukraine. That. Well most experts think that this is like 1938. Coal market. You know where Russia has slowly stopped a piece of Ukraine. It forces are postured. The whole country and even to threaten the NATO members states in the baltics and and Poland. Which under treaty we are obliged to protect -- -- nuclear war necessary. So he should be concerned about awash in nuclear. Strike on the United States including buying it and if that Vladimir Putin keeps charging westward with those portions. Russian nuclear doctrine. Modern Russian nuclear doctrine is even more heavily -- nuclear weapons and nuclear first -- then the Soviet Union. If things escalate into some kind of war over -- -- -- Ukrainian crisis. And but the -- not forget that this is the intent here is working it's the tenure of World War I. You know a hundred years ago this this August. World War I started. Pretty much in the Balkans -- in this part of the world. Because of the mobilization of the Russian army and miscalculations that resulted in a great world war that nobody expected that nobody wanted. And now. Now we have a world nuclear weapons. So president should be concerned about nuclear threats from -- Russia and terrorists. Doctor and hold -- to be agreement would come back and talk to us. And I'm gonna make that that come back as quickly as possible because I don't think the -- sleep between now and then Nixon. Did it's a dangerous world out there -- It is there's certainly getting more and more dangerous because of the policies of this administration ships are -- Doctors think you're -- for the time we will give you calling you have a great day. Doctor Peter prize here is executive director of the task force on that food Homeland Security. And congressional advisory boards. While. In pursuing talent over Tokyo. All right do not go away central Hilde is next. Big going to be talking about -- impaired for the elections Saturday. -- -- -- -- Bernard. Saint Charles jokes and she's gonna have played two dual boots on. And a couple of other extremely. Interesting subject stay -- Angela huge goal is common objects double mobile brigade celebrity AM moral five to reopen.