Welcome back -- were -- to reach experts who's our. -- bio ethicists. And -- the reason why it's something job I've been curious about long time. Well we -- read the stories here this story -- who -- stories. Bought a sick child sick individual. That cannot get hold an experimental drug. That happens the possibility. Of easing them trainers in the life. And very often. Those companies just refused to give it to them nor do dogs. The FDA food and drug in ministry and the federal government movement and and required him to do it. And offered wonder walk and I got to its report and an emailed. It's about -- party. Kid who is very sick. At seven years old supplied kidney cancer. And heart issue the Indian bone marrow transplant. And it is the -- is still fighting but he's in big trouble. And his family's pleading with the makers -- expert move rug company government is called rates. And they have turned down and shoes were forced. We'll take a little bit of an early break when we come back applicable we'll talk to one expert in new nod. I'll just give you an idea what's happening and get to -- union because. -- think when we were always told that there are no death penalty now but bomb tears can read them. I always thought bull. And their death and all over. All were medical system our insurance system and in fact in just regular life. To live from wrong. Covered up next governor bill brigade celebrity -- 53 yeah. Our DSL or we're gonna do Roy my. -- in this thing tag to -- never get nutrients to a talk about. One over amendment and I got this Romeo bio ethicists that sentence in two hours to talk to us about it. And it evolved a kid whose name is Josh party seven years ago and survive kidney cancer heart through your bone marrow transplant. And his family -- the kid obviously is still in bad shape. They're playing with the makers of an experimental drug that could -- him. The company's call immigrants. And that company they're the parents are pleading with -- -- to give this kid the the medicine. And the company camera acts as turned him down. And about Cuba these are all the time. -- and -- of these things that the ball. Is somebody's line if somebody's in horrible shape. Conservative but given it to -- have been killed some. It children there they're gonna die and it. Would you hear these zone on a regular basis. And there's even. Social media campaign it's been setup it's called. Save jobs. And this this this is what they're setting the the family. Who floats this means you campaign. To push the company changes its moment. They say the medicine is or -- and only hope and he literally has only days per. Even hours the list. And they put it up well known as -- job authority FaceBook page to page. End the drug company says we can't. And the family says that's not the case. There or humanitarian. Exceptions under which they could make the drug available. To doctors physicians. At saint Jude hospital. And those positions that say Jews. Have also petitioned companies to help. So for they refuse. If you look at the pictures drug issues really cute. He's getting scared -- a -- -- hospital. He's just a puppy on top of him being cute. In some of these pictures. And use that street Jude's hospital Children's Hospital famous hospital. And that the doctors know all about what's in the drug pipeline and they know what's there and available or being tested. And the parents -- young. They're vocal they're very good on television. Lot of news outlets have reported on the case. And in the report for all where is the poor little boys and boys in the bed company. And and then the parrot a period that we to -- -- You follow Watson parent I'd -- into it that way. It would go look at and I still feel like breaking -- the -- butchers in preening at that. But consider the other side in this this is where I think we didn't live -- What should call him inadvertent. Deaths. Of Josh were 67 and seven and 77. And they needed distraught. He beyond what can we wouldn't or. And you you'd probably be -- a Colin on a legitimate sought and all of it's a restricted drug. And even if that was a bit will be used only enough for certain people. And it should be given to people that have longer projected lifespan and in the sixties and I'm interview edged trawlers from Josh. And it's 67 year old. In garden or your torts and Lance you're the 67 year old -- is for -- In your basic it would be -- that. You decide one had to -- When we only got a chance to live. And again give Josh his parents. Were you don't. Attractive. Understood how to use those those social media. He wouldn't be in the position he is now when there's a slight charge that he could yet. All all of this according to article and look at that says. This is no way to handle reports from a different patients. Parents your families. To try to say themselves -- loved one from imminent death. By giving them access to unproven experimental drops. And do the big question is when her first read that noticeable. Why isn't that why doesn't just the FDA walked in and say give it to. Or why doesn't companies in the grief for seven year old please. Parents are begging dancing Jews and begged him what you just do it. Will this have won the company's cents. And they they said who got -- hold them to Brooke watched or distraught. This should there are no words or express our compassion for that too young boy and his family are going to. Making an experimental drug available outside of control clinical trial however. Has the potential boost lord derailed. The approval of that -- that are -- -- what are breaded I thought. That. The lead the prove you're just. And that stopping production -- -- stopping the it's yours is given it to the kid with the hopes of maybe it works. Where -- The way it works out the FDA. Does novel of -- through they say sure give GRC expert will drop but there's a catch. Of journalists die. Would you mind since the drug made -- work. Or because he is there a reason. Then that would be held against the drug in the company. Until they can show the drug did not kill him. You can be assured the risk of adverse events such as that. As a management. And abort. Of this company which is a little startup company. Scared to death -- about granting big compassion they feel. Given the risked. The Josh is death. Could sing them. -- shareholders. And they would never find out what did the drug. Caused the deaths or couldn't save lives. That makes a little bit of sense to me. Aruba that you would never. Never thought about it along those loans. But the in this war and instant you -- Bought. Even. Opening hormones and the think tank and looking at the arts and understanding -- wives maybe this incident. Is is is valid to say no you can't habit. My question is where have we use of country. One of our national compassion. Why don't we and whatever it costs paid the taxes. Graham the money's. Too small companies like this. Company is to do the research companies who do the distribution. Forty eagle this bad. For seven Euro which we shouldn't. Even have -- feel bad for the 67. Euro. Who just didn't remnant of die and their Beebe a drug that would say that. Are we pay for. Why don't we make the experimental programs. That are being test that there that even some of the larger companies from what -- -- Our parade even at the FDA breaks and says OK at the call from changes -- The parents are role of social media the media and reviewed talks who's your pick and that's up. Consequently Lieberman. Graham approval to this one hit. All of kid dies. The -- testing could be over. And the testing and finish so the drug may still work. Pages and worked it out of the impound profile or maybe the drug didn't kill him at all but he dies in the blame it on the drug. It's a little complicated but to me. It would seem that champions would be. We use benevolent society. Would gore hadn't -- do whatever it takes. To give this kid the drug to me capable. Analysts say something very controversial. It seems a lot of times -- were more concerned about the trial that hasn't been born yeah. Mighty abortions. And we are about the children that have been able. If if this kind of thing. There's gonna love the kid to be born. To suffer -- -- Owned or. -- -- And then -- when there's a drug that could save him. Why wouldn't we say by all means -- the country we provide. So would you think -- -- -- Pritchard called what are your talks. Well they don't want it like it. -- look at public and yet the -- did not obviously granting him this company and trials. But then -- get the company. In the business of making -- -- and -- we are trying to make a profit -- that than just what -- -- not gonna happen. Now I don't know how they deal but it it would mean. And -- little kid died on it because I want to make sure I got my money back on how would you build quality about you making that money. Well I meant to elude the -- we had a little brittle bones student until Edwards thinkers hoping to make very good point. Let's save this you draw. They're pretty certain. It's conceive thousand kits. But it's up -- there's still doing the surge suits to do and the trials in the tests than them. -- working on the drug itself. And through compassion -- with a very valid point -- you point out on them and say look the other room. We can't take that chance on this kid dying and if we've got to answer. But big big big give it to the kid he dives. They get showdown in the drug that might have saved thousands. Get showdown because. You lost one. The does that make any sense as to why. They would say I'm sort of we can't do it now. I'd I'd I'd put back like this. -- -- not about -- company and a and a leader this being a draw. It it would mean. How would want my -- Now yet thanks and that there actually a kitten. I think the thing that I would be at that point out they know this the FDA right now this is their problem and that -- creation. Then you let me Garland -- -- -- -- -- -- country -- -- -- the -- -- -- -- this organization to -- the but they are making -- choose between one child one child -- about child. Now ironically. -- -- that lives if we are shutting down like that. Well I don't think that the problem that we look at taxpayer we're not giving back part but in fact we get the opposite what should be in part. Well I think now you're going in the direction it was -- When we put the debate itself -- saw bush in which gets a little complicated I mean we can even go down to. Mom and pop buying stock they're gonna retire and spend the -- lives on board makes a decision based on one life. They'd lose their stock they lose -- return it gets very complicated but. I think -- very simple. As we as the country. Should have enough compassion and and week. Talk about abortion and debated all the time to me this is a no brainer. That any child it's dying should have access. Through an experimental drug and he. The company should be covered and we should -- report whatever. But you know what. I'll -- chew it up put up our little daily double Libya approved drug board opinion poll in set without telling people. About this report. I got an idea. We wanna pay for it to her little draw so people that are dying. Could get them without being any reason to be told no. But you're gonna have to be quite a bit more in taxes. A -- -- -- giving answers and. -- -- -- -- And back dollar find out who's -- -- hold yeah yeah yeah ate it got there and -- -- then you know that there. -- there out of the picture we save money at it didn't like Dayton the company get the stay together. After the trial of the trial. Well I. Don't think that sounds good bridge got hundreds of thousands of drugs out there on the yearly. Decade Bentsen's. Being being constantly -- news in the whole lot more money you get from a letting these people go abroad and appreciated the call that kind of thinking I enjoy. You're challenged me delegates show and -- thought and I think people listening adult and think about it and sometimes it starts of movement war. If funds are partial answer or whole -- and governor of the outcome right. Welcome back were whipping at about hoping -- Granted very complicated. And and I think emotional. And in the news you can thought processes. It's it's hard to -- -- it's hard to get out of box. Were you thinking. Because this is a motion and -- and talked about much so probably more than new. Well worth thinking about. Reporter on a web site to accident title bio ethicists. Say -- Josh. May be. But what about all the brushed. What the story talks about George party bearers had seven years old survive kidney cancer. Survive heart failure. Survived a bone marrow transplant dying again. In his family's pleading with the makers of an expert will draw. The Gibbs to. Company. Turned on the now believe it or not this child has a few benefits and augmenting. But of do. He's got a young. Social media savvy. Couple parents. And know how to get there -- information -- Josh is a very cute kid. There have -- social media campaign. The bill to web site in his name. And being traded to saint Jude's hospital you don't have better. Children physicians and these they know. Where there experimental drugs are they know were there drugs or that word those that may work those or. Being planned and that can work in the future. And they've got the connections to make its reports -- man over and over. Companies turned to and a parents. Been on television great view and print. -- very very good at getting that message are they should be. But your article that the -- and web site points out. If Josh were six is that evidence that seven -- I mean seven. UPL. If it's parents didn't ought to use social media. There will be little bit worse. If we didn't go to saint Jude's hospital. Where they know. Where the lines of communications over the drug companies. He you'd have virtually no chance at all. So. The FDA. On -- -- of -- and so they say sure give drugs six remote drug but there's a catch him reading. From the article. If -- should die is what you markets into drug may not work or because he's very sick. Then that would be held against the drug. And in the company and told they showed the drug did not kill him. Well this is this a little bit these start up company and management and the board have. Have talked about their compassion of talked about how horrible they feel guilty they feel. But wouldn't you -- on board do you've got people give money you'd that your -- and managed mature that'll lose it. When your management your whole reason to be there that make sure the company's successful. Shall start a company. And it -- charge -- his. Dude the company could sink where that the drug caused it or not. And I think anybody that reads it's as warm regardless. They should give it to. I feel that way but I that it -- and their company I feel that way I'm not only abort. And I think -- have raises a bigger issue. Where's the compassion. In this country. Why don't we say to -- yet be able to constantly experimental drug. In particular for children that don't think I mean look conserve -- or over abortions. The schedule -- you can die. There could be drug disable. Why wouldn't we says. The people of this country will pay for what ever the cause of water breached -- drug. That be can be given to those that are dying. That'd leaves give them a little bit of hope that that seems to me fair. Would say what you think go -- I'd go -- you're in double bill -- lumps are would have thought of Saudi. Well back in -- and I kind of had right and then add your comment. Yeah. Are we trying to stay with a company are always trying to save lives. I think the medical and medical institutions and doctors have become it's more about corporate profits instead of the actual. Medical profession itself where is that hypocritical. You know I'm asking myself that question and that the some experimental dropped. How do you experiment and how do you prove that it's actually -- you don't you have to have can pick convention have to have people. -- people I would say is it's supposed to stabilize a human being. No matter how they are that you have to experiment that on people first where they get those people on the one family here. I don't know what's -- soon but -- usually you use wrapped that he used dogs use. All kind of animals through tests and stuff sometimes. They're just still testing it chemically you do when you -- one chemical. And oils that donor Jupiter nova chemicals and eclipsed the donor true. Some -- some and the combined effect will her choose I don't know what the sages. But that your word you say odd thing perplexed aboard a lot of people think but here's here's the question you can Google -- right now. Drugs will you know. That saved people. From death. And in a lot of good time and save people from tremendous pain. -- not available. They're not there and because a lot of the drug companies. That worry in business is doing him. Got sued. Or -- drug lost its patent. Or the drug didn't turn out to be what they thought it was gonna be. What's happening in the meantime. Via the but to -- society we live that. Via the it's parents. Of experimentation. We're giving pure pure companies doing this in the first points. And would seem to meet you did appoint you as a society. Agreed to when their hands. Certainly that would be reduced -- -- limited. I'm wrong come right Victor -- governor bill -- seventy immoral 53. One big -- thing packages. Called Mario over the land -- -- RO wouldn't be careful saying I think. Of that -- bit. Better if somebody would have sent you this story boards salad. That I would have fell one way and that's it. And what I'm talking about two or web site double of the field on. It's a report that says bio ethicists here's the question it's a job. Maybe. What about all the rest. What they're thinking about what they're talking about his -- party seven year old kid survived kidney cancers. Are familiar. Survived a bone transplant buddies dying again. The parents were young. Good looking great communicators. On television and radio. So social -- social media campaign to build web site. Or petitioning the drug company it's chamber. To releases for Finland map. And -- bread that they won't. Like I said. I would have very quickly so I think that Dick. I think that's horrible but it should be ship date. And and basically. That's true. But when you start reading about it which which part frankly and the -- for some reason. The FDA took a look at his at least in part read it correctly in the story. They said okay. There are right. We're we're we're gonna dividend. Do you you can have it put the company says. No you can't habit because there's catcher Josh times. And they might since the drug may not work because he's very -- There will be held against the company the stock holders. And and and and told they could show that the drug didn't kill him. -- total charter company villain of the money that the time to do that it that would come about. When -- read -- -- and that's still think you wanted to and by itself. Suppose I was stock older -- -- a lot of money to Jerusalem this will start because they're. Everything -- to divert few companies these days doing this kind of experimentation. If they headed there's a pad on that there could be Monique. And it's -- require. A minute take chance. And they say bullets. Give the Josh the of the medicine can we resist in two things happened. I'll lose my money they don't make -- if that may be able to lists to save. Thousands of others because -- experimentation the new. -- -- -- A little bit more complicated. And I thought when I would have said. I think. Analysts who would you think Jamie and grab you and double of the purge ago. Well back at all. I understand. All of the different ways you're working -- it but. -- and that's important view. Indirect and there's no guarantee. So I don't think that should be a reason. For our company not developed into Iraq. When you in practice companies. There is a chance you wouldn't -- Bolivia's two Hedlund says says they've gone from may be one about program. I'll -- that company goes out of business. And there or seven loved ones just like jaw. Reading on that and what uses them. Well I would carry. It the child is denying any last. Where is dying and -- You give it shock. What bothers me these days. But don't you tell aren't aren't going the other seven. That you're gonna dive jaws the naked. Regardless with a we have the entrance on. And it won't know that these people are taking her -- no way. No -- and what. -- -- May -- that drug companies. Can't advertise on TV so patient aliens and they -- particularly -- -- The next thing you -- Cap right after the commercials for those drug. All of the war years. Saying this is that at Tora went back no it's not a bad drive -- they drug with side effects. People don't -- re side -- they want to believe it -- miracle. You're you're pointing -- to litigation. And I agree that's. That's all part of what this is about but this happens on a regular basis and get a -- Google. And you dual reading that that I have done. It surprised me immense -- if you they're very few companies out there anymore making raw logs. Because there by the loss of patent it's too expensive. Or they're afraid of getting sued or their stockholders. Don't want -- government well so we -- in the situation in this country talk to a doctor or hospital. There are drugs. The -- we've been using forever than in short supply or disappeared. It gets a little complicated in the fuel thinkpad and come right back of the bureau -- -- seventy immortal five Korea. All right -- not go away Angela hill who's that who's gonna who's fighting dogs in Louisiana and as skewed do you want local some big decisions. They carried a flood protection do you want somebody who is in Baton Rouge making those decisions. Double audio.