Dan Mitchell joins us right now a senior fellow at the Cato Institute Newman and guessing Dan first off good morning tea. I'm guessing is an expert in tax policy. In my -- I certainly has spent thirty years working on the issues I know a little bit about it he's used thirty years. At thirty -- painfully year augmented by a late and I laughed cried about army and it got my tractor I'm not happy at all. Tell me about the Texas and as it works now and then we'll talk about that vis a vis the -- to a fair tax and a flat tax which I think a lot of people lumped together. And really -- jealous little -- history the income tax how we got from mayor -- here and -- you are very happy and -- and -- did -- Ratajczak. I had -- -- -- -- -- -- either let. Turbotax and other software planned there a a lot of complications it is a lot easier than it used to -- But here's the fundamental problem we could have a system that is simple and pro growth. We first got income tax on that dark date back in 1913. The entire pack for them with a two page form fourteen pages of unstructured. Now we have a -- the entire look straight there are literally more than a thousand different form you can download. The tax code itself that morphed into a 75008. Months there. It's based says about that. Production at the plate and for special interest to Washington -- get rich lobbying giving special loophole not available for the effort for them. And I hope we'll make our nation less competitive. Undermines job creation drive business away from America. And for what. Gupta makes her special interest groups fat and happy couple things should be -- ripped up. -- and at our disposal. And the ubiquity of the -- like concrete -- -- feet under the ground and put the ball over over it but nothing can ever grow again it is an abomination. Any civilized country. So you don't like it. -- -- Omelet is so -- originally -- it was two pages. Of forms with fourteen pages of instructions just if you look at the ratio there wouldn't that indicate we're kind in trouble from the beginning. What actually gotten in contraction that that the problem. It was a matter what the politicians figured out that they try to buy votes and and collect campaign support and political donations. By putting and special preferences. The real giant increase in the income tax we had. Actually increases in world war line and the Great Depression where Roosevelt drove the economy so much in the wrong direction. But the actual became a monstrosity complexity. Really starting -- what worked -- -- the worked all we had contact -- we had a double cut Asia. -- -- that we had all the mind numbing Byzantine complexity of high compliance cost. And by the way. We individual sometimes think the tax code is prayer for businesses it's far worse or does the poll reported that were imposed. That has a small businesses. Our war that about all the money is spent trying to figure it taxes they are -- independent Washington. Incredible won't come back Dan Mitchell senior fellow at the Cato Institute we're gonna talk about ways to fix this. The likelihood of that both talk about dare attack it -- tax fair tax is imposed a flat tax. And -- any of that ever happen -- is -- just an exercise in what might be six when he two time related traffic and right now we got -- Robinson Portland. Hi Tommy Tucker talking about taxes on this April 15 would stand Mitchell senior fellow at the Cato institute and if you missed. When he had disable the last so I don't know three minutes or so he's not a big fan of the taxes and we have now but then again neither of us are because. Italy says it involves a lot of special interest groups and catering to them. Some of the weird deductions I see here that your eligible for if you move you can. Deduct the cost of a moving your pet. If you have the take music lessons clarinet other music lessons are deductible because orthodontist say playing the clarinet. Helps children with over bites -- technically the lessens our medical expense. If you have a medical condition they came to be alleviated or improve by swimming up bull can actually be tax deductible so. Does this speak dancers special interest groups. Just like they do with legislation get into the tax people -- the congress whoever doubts c.'s rules and and saying you know all this could work for this -- -- of that with an end goal toward boosting their business while taxpayers pay for. The way it works you have sort of that -- Rectangle. Bureaucrat. Politicians. Special interest groups and lobbyists. All work together what a lot of money changing hands good government. Always lines -- getting more power when they can be staying. That special interest group get that are so the playing field and her direction from the get an earned and deserve it and a lot. Of course. Get -- is there a lot to our facilitator of that awful day. And -- think that the average person I don't think I understand. The richest region in America right now -- Washington DC. Look at -- the -- while the county the richest metropolitan areas. It's not to a Alley anymore it's not Manhattan that not place that they create well. At this giant blood -- -- -- called watch and see that is speaking up the rest of the country. Overpaid bureaucrat at the interest groups and lobbyists to -- Washington old Edgar getting wrecked on the right about. -- Forbes put out a historian -- and one of the ways it yourself audited Xavier tax protesters on the list -- the WW wells and some little bitty boy and -- sky colder wind shift. And he wrote a book that was called the biggest con and it was about -- -- federal tax system was a flawed premise from the beginning tonight and have to pay your taxes. And I was listen -- this I mean a long time windows and -- has gone to jail and sure enough he did. And then when he got out of jail the he he I think started up again on a -- -- broker in jail or what have you but I guess. And tournament the iris beings is a punitive body that also happens does it not. Oh all of that targeting. Between. What low. -- -- We're losing their connections -- gonna do Dan is take a break and when we come back and you time's limited will pick it up with -- explanation of fair tax and flat tax and and my question of after it's all over. And you change anything does it matter because nobody can get a handle on spending and they're gonna keep asking for more and spending morning to again. A -- calls on as a -- 60187. 8668890878. And also Texas and 87878. Talking about income tax on April 15 right now time for -- WL first news and for that. We go to Davis -- a busy days you would imagine David for Dan Mitchell senior fellow at the Cato Institute expert on tax reform -- policies agreed to give us just a couple more minutes of Dan if you cannot thumbnail sketch on fair tax -- Flat tax what are the differences and would anyone make a difference. That Erica and the flat tax are basically their parents aren't the same core. Flat tax structure and one on one little -- what you earned it has felt that actually your uncle of one kind of one -- -- when you spend it. But there's no double taxation but -- -- the flat tax or the fair tax there's no -- factory. -- a corrupt and loopholes. There no special interest corruption at. So we can somehow they're written apparently by a thousand pages of the current tax system and get. Tech worker that would be great but to challenge. How do we stop the politicians from going back in the same little system. And it actually with a fair packed tightly actually try to -- not keeping -- -- and then give it out on top of it. So I think people leeway to constrict the tax system. And it can only somehow overcome all the special interest groups in Washington but also brought some sort of constitutional reform. Dep prevent politicians are about recreating the monstrous. We have to read it. And -- look at the spending side of that as well. That little collection as our population ages are poorly designed and prevalent programs we're already. Indicate. Go to European urged a vote so it. Not only that we should want what our government the problem is that -- interject streak toward bigger government so we do we re warm our government. Did terrain in all the excesses of the welfare state try to sort of restore our remark heritage and tradition. -- -- And get a chance to actually formula we get control spending. And just so I know in terms of the flat tax that taxes income one time. That would be progressive as a taxes now the more you learn the more you pay order but it would pay 1015%. What -- flat. Iraq and the national self -- at her track they're only one actually -- there are mechanisms to protect the poor from. Once you -- certain amount of money. -- Or attitude -- February 1719. Something like that percent that every dollar you earn about that. Would be -- -- the fact -- very simple. I thank you so much Dan Mitchell the senior fellow at the Cato Institute expert on tax reform and policy I hope your day gets better and we appreciate the time you gave us right here.