Apr 21, 2014|
Garland talks about the Keystone oil pipeline with Eric Smith of Tulane's Institute of Energy and Ben Zycher of the American Enterprise Institute.
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Automatically Generated Transcript (may not be 100% accurate)
-- very good about it again it's called the Q soul that -- so oral. Pipeline coming out of boat going to come remind -- of Alberto Canada. Gold window and a Texas gulf coats and a host to about 16100. Plus miles of pipeline. Air and or was supposed to get started Newman was delayed and then we were doubling of the decision in the leaders I've inning guy here is that the prisoners put at all. Past elections on and this year and Nebraska some kind of reason for that. Blood before. City this is the way it is scrutiny -- expert -- protester Eric Schmidt. Once again here to say we -- up facts to lean -- institute of energy we had proposed use Smith welcome back to the show. Thanks for -- the arms in our it's it's been delayed doses. Our godsend for the administration because. They were gonna lose votes. No matter what they did so now -- are basically saying this. Issue in the courts and Nebraska state courts. Which is not a debate about -- built pipeline and -- whether the governor has the right to. Our. Approve the pipeline that or to the equivalent of a very public service commission. But aren't aren't you. Concerned about the environmental side of that -- brutalized Clinton quote. All published called billions of dollars in property damage -- leaks fires explosions in the past decade 2010. Million gallons of oil into the Kalamazoo river and -- concerned about their massive. Ogle ala pat were for in the region -- -- war in -- awards party. Well I think that's the fears that people. And not true at all the real legitimate. At least which is sort of current number pipelines across there prefer holidays -- you know they have never really had a problem it's -- are -- I think that the real. Economic issues here is a pretty environmental community. Does not want to see oral sanskrit produced in Canada it's probably depart for and it's about producing occurred. Why he visited the movies -- -- he -- to. In the midwest seems to be fairly frequently. Whatever there's a broken pipeline and it takes so long to to stop the flow. Are there no mechanism just. -- all the boxes when the waters of -- Are there are various safety valves that there are no progress or change in pressure and shut down -- far. We could lose by -- -- -- term in the Gulf of Mexico we don't -- major spills are typically during -- changed because. We have been checked culture on the panel. I think where the -- spell problems problem. On the news -- to be smaller on. -- on the small -- might not terrible and sixty. Capabilities. And bill would -- -- to bring -- more than -- listeners who is the question of government broadening and handling your world with professor -- they appreciated the call. A grown up sanctions that question out at about the subject. That. Yes market -- some land owners. Why as a refinery not built in North Dakota. Where the material can be processed and distributed intentions. In the midwest. Percent of tighten all the illegal Mexicans that the export. All our first all the refineries. Do exist at the bit where certain number of them that due process skirt coming out of a barker a provocative sort light sweet crude. We have a lot more refining capacity -- -- light sweet -- that we do the heavy sour Kurds and in fact. Rebel group heavy sour crude process is terrible on the gulf -- A -- you gotta get that -- the oral forward can be refined and that's what part part part. So you're saying that to build responders that would handle that type the future though is more costly than building pipelines are there. The price plunged about five billion dollars she couldn't come close to build our victory Purdue. Ejection I appreciate that. Here you go. -- the sued the environmental. Argument acting -- environment who's pulling the Butte -- and I think that called. It a close. I'm I'm. Selected sleepless in -- And she opens. The excellent person more green house gases. Than your average girl -- wars and were under. Accurate and so. -- -- Well I think that probably are our -- or about a 50%. For repeal of heavy crude should be. There are removed from the earth pride. Boiling water to produce steam and injecting steam -- -- charities through steam assisted gravity drainage. Which basically drilled two wells. -- -- -- esteem and more in due course there are belted government industry group in the hour. And pulpit to surface so you've got a bird. Natural gas to create pretty pristine to begin. And that does produce CO2. Or it is the you have professors have -- take a break a camera back with posters of the environmental -- It's not just the pipeline and they -- who won this oil produced at all pleased. To environmentally damaging. There are reads those they're -- got blown pipeline connecting to the midwest here. And there -- thinking about planning to him to build the pipeline and that was good thing. One of them in the other direction so it seems to be the bottom line they're gonna produce it. -- that without let's come back and shoot that true government yeah. Back go welcome -- -- finger about the keystone addicts don't project -- think about it. Sixteen hundreds plus miles of pipeline Primeau -- -- camera. To Texas and we're thinking about the plus and minuses we're professor Everett Smith with The Who -- was called when it comes to energy -- -- going to institute of energy and propel -- through -- the caller Nancy. Hero would propose to humans through. Okay I -- have -- being -- that they had been doing research on this Keystone Pipeline. And it's not the type people are objecting to it the type of -- out. And I did you know -- -- picture include key ally in cash and -- culture Canada. All our guests are -- electric and -- world news -- they can get the respect for a bill. Are the there are actually three different artwork proposals to the Pacific carriers accountable. And wants to the Atlantic are secure. -- expensive they call war are. The support of the matter is dark crude would then be exported to Canada as the number refining capacity terrible if we bring it to Gulf Coast. We actually can. You don't bring in Canadian oil processes in the foreign products and either use locally or export. It's. The argument is if you want to export crude unapproved or do you org export. Refined products -- do both of them alternates. Are carefully if we exported or the year crude it would be competing and that's where crew are in week. Use are locally. We will displace as well. -- from coming in the. -- It's an epic action -- Christian. No no it it is -- happened and -- look at the damage and it's been collecting data collected its crude oil. Not the type of oil and even bikini people are again the oil out the line. Very damaging should be higher. A critical are people agree with you booked. The -- ms. I can impose new -- -- even on the -- middle that things Canada. Won't produces. If we don't build the pipeline. I think it doing research on right now. And I'm reading -- -- -- That are really did actor app not even in public that you lack. Well I I you know like a lot. By. And -- bikini. Line is we don't normally get that oil. And. Here while that's been reported terrorism that we ever -- currently here were -- we are and where. Venezuelans were asked to export crude to China but. Olive -- will be used to call will be process if you're not gonna stop. Party. Mexico long particular pipeline route there were about four of the pipeline -- New story. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- You know there are locked away oral care and the most efficient. Cost effective ways to do for the Gulf Coast refineries can process. I. Beat by a -- and orbit declined in -- in. A heartbeat and they aren't we buying. What. People -- I mean nobody really you know we'll -- question you're talking about. The money that job well short term. The only the few people and -- at long partner on I mean -- eighteen and nineteen pitch really well. Well okay but frankly these jobs will be associated -- blue collar workers in the refineries and jobs in the downstream petrochemical business -- -- recruits -- I think there're jobs. Galore from as it was the -- or actually build it. It's true you don't need many people operate the pipeline broke when you're talking about 15100 mile pipeline as you do. More than a handful of people just inspected and to operate the complex systems and change change. In the interview interview room about it and -- you read this even if we don't build the pipeline and by the end of these years. We're already moving 450000. Barrel -- -- by train. Warren Buffett bought up to trading companies in order to add more cars. We've got a couple of massive accident with this so one -- another vote or come in south. Tell all Arctic -- report -- and is. It's safer to move oral part pipeline and it is Bernard real real actual choice available also say it's more flexible to move the story. Rail and they're right about draft market. If you're really interest it is. Protecting me and our the last thing you want to do -- moral Margaret. I'm looking at an. Annual water. -- any water. -- -- On being -- and think -- -- That. Out. Record and how many miles per hour mirror in Europe. I'm sure I -- by united it and I get it but I think that really Arctic. -- -- -- -- That it can be transported. They have to look I think a lot of people love. And repeated and reflect and feel exactly like -- dude the one thing always for an outlook cut. I appreciate each call over much and I'm not trying to be cynical I told my prince this. If you don't like oil production -- indeed because of BP whether because of broken pipeline with a because to pray in schools you've got to. Stop using as many petroleum products as you can. And -- products are all blows. Everything we use that -- -- -- and there and ordered to do what we saying we don't want to do affected the environment. Our. -- greenhouse gas options. -- stop using the product and there have been debates on review group Greenpeace should not simply says that good people. You're you know like getting. Stock options and -- pretty -- not getting Brit shouldn't. Working hard trying to protect people but some got to where -- -- get the message if nothing can convince -- That the production is being done is honestly NC pleased -- And you've got to start saw abuse in the product. And professor. I don't see unity government to. I actually use borrower -- every year and that's pretty. Primarily it's useful Petro chemicals Sanford Digg users for transportation reviews heard little oil. Anymore in terms power generation Ernie and those are things that -- it's -- -- -- As you know were trying to convert some of our culture or supplied -- -- -- well injury which repeated improve the well so I think you're you're. Quandary it is. If you earlier agreed that the world going to be produce spent the question is -- molecular. And the safest most economical methods and that's what the debate is about. If you listened to be the politicians. These people and Nebraska are against pipelines the other. Our section of the Keystone Pipeline already runs through Nebraska and what of the main terminal on the part partisan Steele should be which is on the border. At present to almost 500 miles by -- or riveted on the pushing it. Yes so are -- Our our. -- question is. And the engineers -- all approach that is. If you assume you're gonna need the oil and if you were interest student in if not energy independence completely at least. An improved situation energy independence. You need to use recruit that we have available but we have available. Is either the parking firm. -- the crew coming in different from western Canada and they are actually improving the waves. But -- -- extractor recruiters I mentioned music society and some other processors. To our. Maybe not make it as clean as light sweet crude the -- -- will be cleaner than it's been passed. Well one boy told portion on the jobs every term I have a Republican and at a bar. Congressional. -- -- Debra -- and Washington. They claim that they gore rolled up the project if food is starting completed about a 120000. Jobs. But roads until oil cycle fact -- dot -- in the books funny about it is a fact check dot org. Says the conservative. Or wrong. Then there are -- liberal organization. That if the liberals rural the images accused of being your conservative organization. Ought. On this -- and they said the 120000. Figure is wrong. Those jobs or temporary landstuhl for years to. Whatever time it took to complete the project the number of permanent jobs is about fifty. Well our our were just point out that great PR which is a pretty good fact -- That's a 1171000. Perpich. At forty. And it. 42000. To actually. Be put to work during construction sites. But they are counting. Both direct and indirect jobs as -- alluding to earlier. More accrue to if you have to do so whether that means refinery. Which say about double water temperature drops and. Gifts in this city of Google little Poodle which that he pulled up got the pair in the group that is gonna have 190. At Cornell University report says that Berrian play. Council foreign relations. That says both of manageable point. Quoted. On no longer -- professor is always. Good in your classroom always learned some clinics and we come back we'll talk to resident scholar. At the American Enterprise. Institute. Predicts. I -- we're still debating try to learn you. Sides of the debate -- of the keystone a total oil pipeline. You've heard that there is. The Alberta Canada and what's wrong. Pipeline Arnold we've known that affects about those 16100. -- Mayo it's. Right now it's being held up the President Obama was so it's supposed to make good vision is within a pipeline would be built. But Nebraska. Is holding it up there a bit of god in our middle concerns and and different kind of legislative concerns. So it looks like the president has pushed the decision -- perhaps the election and but it's over it's it's something of interest to watch because we certainly would -- In -- of funding so -- and perhaps it. The walls -- loaded exporting group might even be public support. But we always turn to be yeah experts to veterans that would make sure we're not giving you. In -- information we can cycle with -- Resident scholar American enterprise institute and it -- the show appreciated that time. -- American Enterprise Institute. Again -- what organization is that conservative livable nonpartisan. Non profit would what is the institute. Well it's city. Free market. -- Nonprofit think -- and dedicated to. Individual freedom and and market competition. And very simple terms it's certainly nonpartisan. It's. It's the preeminent civil -- to I think tank in Washington DC analogous to what city -- the Brookings Institution traffic as the preeminent center left. -- think Clinton and in Washington. All right correct me if premiere of this service is incorrect. I think promoter bread. This oil was being pulled up as cold -- million billion Bittermann. That to is in Canada and when they pollute the rule process and they poll oil out of them. Environmentalists claim it's fifteen to -- pursued more greenhouse gas emissions and oil. Typically consumed in the united states -- present. And the other side of the debate says may be true blood. It provides jobs and it's going to be produced and exported I've -- coach West Coast. Or some of the -- on proved regardless your your thoughts. Well I wouldn't emphasized the jobs impact although it's not not unimportant. In terms of these. Claims by the opponents in the pipeline about it greenhouse gas emissions. Let's put aside do. He's on going debate over core requirements alliance simply assume. But the conventional view was correct. It is certainly true. The the the two person -- two worlds news or parole would be more or somewhat more greenhouse gas intensive by about fifteen or 18% support got. Then conventional. Crude oil production because the oracle. Is heavy it has to be separated from the sands and sort of -- he did -- And it also has to receive the -- through the pipeline and so you do get an increase. In the greenhouse gas emissions that increase which the opponents the pipeline called devastating. Emotional duress it is certainly pretty true fuel. Under the most. Extreme. Assumption about the increase in the greenhouse gas emissions. That would be observed you at keystone were approved this is the most extreme assumption. You'd get an additional 11 point two billion tons. A metric tons of greenhouse gas emissions each year. The world or do you meeting about forty billion metric tons -- years with the increase would be about 3%. That's kind of crazy you know a single point point is simply not gonna increase global. Greenhouse gas emissions by 3% but what's what's sort of cement just to make the extreme case. And if you use. Let's -- to -- climate model that's been published by the national center for atmosphere search. That everyone in this who works in this series uses because you don't have to have a super super computer users. He's the future temperature affect -- percent change. -- global greenhouse gas emissions is effectively zero. And so the argument that. That the opponents of the pipeline may the beautician goal. Greenhouse gas emissions. Caused by keystone on even in the under the most extremist actions. It is simply not correct. And I think I would I would not be too much attention. All right -- limits are gophers for -- here when it come back I -- as Cuba jobs because Republicans and -- on the show. Promotes greed -- a 120000. Jobs State Department says sported 2000 plus. No other government agencies has 4000 -- candidates as 9000. Fact check dot org. Says that the job. So blitzes -- is that part of the debate is whether or not we're gonna create jobs with the pipeline. On the -- back -- -- a bill because it's a pretty immoral applied three. We're -- good about the keystone XL pipeline and controversy hoopla planned to be built from Alberta Canada down to the Texas Gulf Coast from 16100. -- hopes. Pipeline Nebraska holding it up right now number of different concerns. In bar -- concerned about being built those that want to build. All -- in particular to the jobs related -- this I think. Gives you an idea that if you're neutral in just looking for information on this issue themselves do Goldman and his. Pairing the group says a 1191000. Jobs are going to be crude. Created. And it's gonna lord domestic fuel prices and that's anywhere from a quarter removed. A quarter million and a half million permanent jobs. Then you got to a university of book Cornell University global labor institute saying goes amount for coldly. Unrealistic. Then you have the State Department saying it's about 3900. Of its one year. And vineyard got. 9000. That the goes to two years. Then you've got the Republicans claiming and -- cut open lectured dot org says fifty. And it's all we're we're going to be lectured -- renders there and what is very difficult search. We're doing -- -- -- this resident scholar American Enterprise Institute. And you haven't heard about the job benefits more in is -- about all the boarded the today. Well it's certainly developer of the big the problem is that numbers and have -- around you just suggested the poor girl over the map and one. -- two basic reasons that one of the numbers to flee to. Permanent employment temporary employment employment during the construction period. Employment during the operations period -- started some time church often difficult to know. What the people. Proposed two. Putting forth the numbers actually haven't -- and the second reason is that we're you know where people stand depends where it says that they oppose the pipeline they're gonna try and find a way to minimize the amount of appointments. That the pipeline generated that they support the pipeline they're gonna try and maximize and so the numbers have to be taken mr. Graham Russell. I think the State Department numbers are probably as good music news I've seen. I can't remember off hand what they are but the employment impact is is not trivial and there's a lot of construction work. And I think the pipeline would be the most valuable use. That labor and so I think that Adam. Believer unions in construction companies and others who are anxious to get this project going have a point. There's a project could be built two that the private -- things were building. Part of the value. Pipeline will be you know earned by. By workers. And I don't think there's much reason to doubt that that is an important component of the problem Michael -- one more thing your argument that only fifty jobs. Will be created. By the project is really rather silly and would again I would take -- to sort of to users. They'll -- for the audience State Department says 3900. Implored -- leave the job was done in the year. 19105. The per year of the workers for a -- for two years. And this State Department as one the content came up with the you have fifty permanent jobs. One of the things I wondered if you reduce grew. If if if we and America's stopped the pipeline and and tell me of the strong group Oregon reporter and 85 miles segment. Of their original part time running down the Cushing Oklahoma and from Cushing to. Refineries in Texas and if we don't complete the rest of the pipeline and they're gonna produces oil and ship about East Coast West Coast for a. Well I think I think -- -- I think it's much more likely do you world leadership by real bite bite tanker truck. Which is more expensive and more dangerous. As we've seen with some of the EU where you'll be -- so between real and other and other effects pure is going to be produced. Where older do you or role. Would be action. Shipped west I think is. What some obvious it's expensive to build a pipeline in the overall for the Rockies some time I have my doubts about that. And I think shipping -- east would require a whole different pipeline I think what's going to happen if the price point is not built. Is that again it will be it'll continue to be shipped by real by tanker truck accepting shipments will expand dramatically over time. The capacity of the planned pipeline -- and 30000 girls updates. And I would not be surprised to -- -- shipments by real and by truck approaching that number. Overtime. If the pipeline is not bill to accept. The transportation will be more expensive and more dangerous. And for the audience. Just for your vacation 450000. Barrel per video oil. Or already going to be moving on the tree project in this country. By the end of -- -- and then a big big increase once everything is completed typical bill. -- and true pleasure to have you on the show learned so that I appreciate the top. I. -- -- -- resident scholar American Enterprise Institute which will enter. Give away just vests against right -- to --