Welcome back where you continued to think about a book called teachers verses the public. They compounded by a demo work correctly you mean there emptive favorite re authors. That worked on this for search partnership Harvard program education policy and governance. And the journal of education. Next and -- things authorizes with a stock Paul Peterson. Harvard professor and author of teacher pursues the -- doctor welcomed the Chicago. Well thank you Garland for having me on your program. How'd this come about. What -- search was -- who was involved was it just tune or was -- three you -- do rusher -- -- authored the book. Explain that -- Well you know it's a joint project. We have been running these surveys now for a ever since 2007. And Lee ask -- nationally representative sample of the American public a series of questions and that has the same questions. Of a nationally represented that sent both teachers and it's a very large undertaking so all three abouts have been involved and every stage of the process from designing the questionnaire don't -- analyzing it as writing up what is the most important findings that we come up where. I certainly -- to give me a chance to get into the book itself in particular about some of the particular fund and but I had something just happened. That happens a lot on this show regardless. Of what the subject. The liberal conservative bent the people like me then they're truly independent and and I was just so Margaret give us. I -- showed that they'd show thing I think. Because I tell people what I think and that we attempt to disprove what I -- what I think in order to get closer to the true. And what we do that in big variably what we find is no better. Who claims walked there's always somebody joked with credentials. Says not true and give an example. Just said the president will be easier -- ration of teachers on. And and I got Warren new. Topic of pure bull that I brought. You know and he basically says that on terror praising him you know get exactly right. That you do this study for -- -- cheers Gallup poll has been doing it for 45 years. And he pointed out things like -- where. -- report says the public. 44%. Of public -- schools get an a or B 52%. Teachers. They can may be and there's that separation of teachers experts as the public -- took cal says. The public thinks amid teachers think 68%. Of a -- -- The public think 68% of the schools can -- be even more than the teachers. And basically. What do you say in the go boom boom -- is diametrically opposed. To what your sources say. And we figure out who believed. Well I don't know that that report is accurate because. That Gallup poll this year. Past you know how you evaluate the nation's schools. And it ST LE BC yet. And they got something like 20%. Or 21% I've forgotten exactly that that number. And we. The same question in the same way. But directly to up our own sample. At exactly the same percentage so we find that when we do the same question that Gallup does. We get the same answer it there's maybe a percentage point two percentage points separate so I don't know where that number comes. Out when you're out. Their local schools that we get a 44% but that the public Gallup does get into when -- that we haven't seen any big difference is now. If you go back ten years ago or or fifteen years ago. You OC differences but what you're talking about the contemporary period or an anchor similar results. -- a limit to gophers for a comeback Lumia cute. Wardrobe push and that we get into the book itself of breed or in the process the finger and about a book called teachers pursues the public. We have the author doctor Paul Peterson Harvard professor would come right back of the bill brigades. Immortal by the -- The good Bob did a book called teachers vs the public with the -- with the shocked Paul Peterson Harvard professor. Doctor that took load up a lot of time on food -- pros let's talk about -- book I can talk Cuba in Europe and document -- union. But -- certified applicant. But with the time remaining what the ports of who horrible -- that after you did -- shirts standout -- Well I was saying that he. Most interesting thing is that. Many in the majority is the topic two thirds of the public would like to see an end to tenure or you're going to have tenure for teachers that you -- page and how much did governing in the classroom. That very small percentage of teachers are supporter but that idea. So that sort of suggest that teachers really wanna protect that are pro blogger terms. -- and the public really thinks that it's not a good idea to have. Ineffective teachers in the classroom. And have a right to hold that position and let that go through a period ball. Procedure that. 623 years to remove an attractive teacher so I think that's the most important finding. -- I've often heard but that -- injury issue. Of the idea. Putting -- -- uses of how that are their students suit on children do. But what do you do you born featured just by the look of the drawing -- so but the collapse of kids that as they hold and just or smarter or were and quirk or learned by room sessions than the others does that in dubbed -- of their measure. What you would ever want to rely on any one year. Bits of information from making these decisions usually go on the basis tour tree years. And you shouldn't ever make it on the basis of test scores below you should also have a principal whose are responsible individual who thinks. About the welfare the school involved in the decision making so yes. Now and in. The District of Columbia that's the way -- they sent out. Evaluations of teachers. But they took into account the test scores and it took all the information together and that they. Identified the most effective teachers and if you do that next year we're gonna -- -- huge -- -- -- another of the teachers that they found that work really. Minimally active they said if you don't get better. We're going to consider dismissing. And it turned out that the good teachers got even Federer. Because they were going to get so much more compensation and that we teachers. Actually. Last or court detonated on -- -- is new accountability system. And the school District of Columbia are happy improved more than any other big city in the country over the last five years since that program -- in to a fact. So I don't know it seems to me like that -- it's it's something that greatly deserves more support within that each and community itself. -- assumed that you live beaten breed education that tortured doom. Ever remember a moment where you had a conversation with the teachers union represented a gorgeous that teachers' organization. Represented -- and what you just told me you'd tell them and what did they say that that that seems. If you've got the stats to back that up sounds like a conclusive. Argument bull bull would be the Keller. Well you know. Garland I. Made this same comments and made it recorded the same tax. Tuesday just this week in the Washington DC and at the event I invited the incoming president of the National Education Association the biggest union the United States. And she says that. All I was trying to do -- to privatize American education and so is being funded by big. Bankers and corporate America torturous trying to take over the American educational system and I'm really disappointed. She wasn't really willing to talk about issues and that she was only going to use hysterical language so. It took me that was a big disappointment. That's virtually what the teachers union reps and percent power. When I read to him the the advance praise from the U people thought it was -- book. Pointed out that a couple of them in particular or well known conservatives. And this was more evidence of an ideology rather than just. Educational university research. Well you know we try very hard. To get our facts correct -- we've done any surveys every year. We've checked the data that. We meet that date is set sail -- others so they can check. Just keep the other numbers right. We. You are all the numbers speak for themselves this does this is not something we we made up. Are so I'm not sure where -- trying to allegations come from. Or did unit is anything -- you -- point out her new book did that stands out to use at that point of what you wanna get over got. Unfortunately form more fortunes and we've got time left. In the -- of human element. The other one thing that really. Comes across to me is that the public it. It's not aware that how much money we are spending on our educational system that you out then they think we're spending about 6000 dollars a year. There are per pupil and the truth of the matter is we're standing about 121000. Move over. So they get about 50%. They're thinking it's 50% reported it really is and if you tell them what it actually -- we divided our sample into two groups or group told. How much is being spent you know Hillary didn't. And then. They're much less enthusiastic about spending more generally speaking people wanna spend more education until they find out two things one they'd have to pay more taxes and true. They find out. What it is that is currently being spent and then the support drops way down about 25%. Professor. You're introducing so big during important subject help people get your book because of teachers verses the plot. Amazon.com. Barnes and -- or your local bookstore. Doctors thank you so much I appreciated that talk. Have a good David and Paul Peters and come right back debit via.