Welcome back. A couple of subjects -- -- -- we've talked so quite a -- forward to cut through. Discussion would -- a global warming with one of the authors with the PC I've BBC report. Germany. And not gonna talk about -- subject -- under tomorrow than from some of it -- it's it's the privacy issue. Of a world laws. A little longer and were. I'm calling from. Yeah actually I know it's hard to believe but you'd gotten too far. And you do in them follow. Injured rule the core short distance is long distances. And who didn't worry that Trojan capital. And checked the outer ring you can try to take -- -- and and it was content place in I've seen that transition. It into fields like an expert than actual time it -- like it's. Whom we start getting. Little technology sped up a little bit more wind got computers and then it seemed like over -- -- there's very little problems. And every time I'd do the show book called the discerning gentleman who. Roland Tuesday privacy German. A lot of you always. Called in texts and -- number enough to get in contact with them which thing. Until I have some and talked to him because tribes who was the conversations -- -- you can really talk about soul won't. Is I'm reading it and Scientific American the other day. Something called big full recognition. I've heard this but never paid much attention to put this problem. This summer. FaceBook is gonna present paper at a computer -- -- conference. Revealing how it has created with whom. Almost is that you reduce the human brain. When it comes as -- whether to photograph. Showed the same person. Regardless. Of how photograph is seeking records -- -- changing camera angles whole -- human brain. Gets it right 97 point 53%. Of the time. Facebook's new technology gets a bright 97 point 125%. Of the time it's call deep space technology. And I thought well it's room again and sure enough he can and Robert Ellis -- publisher editor the privacy journal. Robert good talking developers -- go out. Google -- tell people before we get started. How to get in contact with the because during the show them and -- turned Texan. On. -- some of the new privacy journal it's available by. Hard copy or Europe we're going to be real version and you can -- Joseph privacy journal dot net. Now when I talk to you I usually whom you would. Conclusion that well that was intrusive but not a whole lot can be done. You see any problem and or benefits food storage for recognition and problems you see anything that can be done. Well -- problem -- people put too much trust. The push through so that the the manufacturers of these systems. Overstate. Its accuracy rate people use common sense of there are ways to defeat the system that those those electors -- rates are talking about. Are when you take -- carefully oppose portrait of one individual and compose and compare it was another carefully posed. Picture of -- the individual put. It's being used for large. In large crowds to try to pick out those who might be bad actors terrorists from those those people walking in to a stadium walking. Technically it was used in Orleans and not long ago. And those walking through an airport but. -- -- sunglasses. Beards different hairstyle contained at all the theory is that there are instructions of the -- That was the measurement of the distance between them nose and it's. -- of the who's taught etc. are unique to each individual and when you take the picture of one individual. And compared with a database of millions of millions of pictures of other individuals you can you can make a match -- actors -- it is is not up over 50% yet. When you do with dial in and face recognition can be defeated. Are limit limit you. Ask questions just based on this opposition or hypothetical. That would be. Extremes of miscarriage of technology and the speed -- which it's getting better. Say -- that sometime in the future this it's pretty good. Where can actually do what acclaimed shooter were close to their reader a couple of -- at a last night. Patent published by apple in more shows how the Cupertino company. -- investigated the policy ability of using facial recognition. As a security measure for on the electing its devices. That that would be good thing would that -- you'd. Walked up to your apartment or what Libya private nobody could go Debian and other than you based on facial recognition. -- up at the same technology. Can be used to exclude you from food stamps from a altercations that together to build and we were single. The technologies. Is perfect enough to prevent those sorts of mismatch whose fault while news. Current business. The science is not effective but they were perfect match. I still think that many people have given only Florida politically. Notably to FaceBook in a recreational products and now suddenly it's going to be used to determine whether COLT like certain benefits and interest. -- in one of the articles. Rea and so one of the concerns is whoever sets up these algorithms. Or more importantly. Adjust them as I yeah repairmen of these devices. Might put some kind of prejudice in there where it measures. Gays more than anybody else or blacks or browns more than anybody else you see any of that applause yeah. I guess it could -- that you could program system expect to. Exclude all people answered -- political skin is not a factor. Facial recognition but perhaps. You could program -- to. To eliminate. Those who have an agent structure. Or all -- -- all -- Those sorts of things again if you could too we could do it goes would be illegal. I guess it's possible. A system could be yeah could be program. All right is sick Brit -- come back did you just throwing do we're talking about things true recognition. Software. And it would be unit embryonic stages but it bruised bodies on board. Trying to get more sophisticated. Google the last headsets. Or the latest one through food company and an app called name tag. The -- to two votes short using this -- yeah well yeah intrusive and this is a lesson that you -- this make you wonder about. Where you bribes to win or do you say what most people say. I hadn't done anything wrong and you -- watch me about it. -- -- you are welcome back. Think about to unveil a commercial balloon dog I -- about -- didn't really. Try to get educated concerning its called facial recognition. You're software that is reported. To be very good although our expert with the says that's that scalpel but purports to be very good at recognizing. You. And being able to establish. Or identity. Of we have Robert L Smith with its publisher editor of the privacy journal. Robert of children and we've we've talked about Facebook's -- deep space technology. And what they're they're planning on under is it more sort through the billions of photos. That they have on -- a ball bonds. To help them better understand. The users then they want a piece together aren't tyra white history. And public images. And be able use that. -- is is that going to be common or is that even going to be. Well there appears -- via emerging yes they look go purchase very. Large. Face recognition company about three years ago that led to much speculation. Indeed FaceBook has admitted that it will uses to. Skin photographs that thousands -- users -- probably has more photo images and the other via. Honor and though that -- -- -- say they can. Post the identity of an individual without that person's consent. We should say that certain books that they would have an opt out feature for people in the users detail on it or lose. Can opt out that's not true so the competitors apple and Yahoo! also using official recognition. For the same purposes. You got a lot of low effective it can be it certainly isn't as with multiple images of an individual and that's. What happens untraceable -- lose so it social media sites so that the more -- you have an individual. Potentially more accurate the match should be. You can imagine the interest -- accomplishment and other government agencies. In this capability. Mean at Saunders they've been. Let's go to JNJ bureau -- Robert Smith I appreciate echo. Yeah are are really. Dora character alarmist but -- insurance like -- written down the I mean. But the -- on nine issues of all are probably you know. Well. You know marketing aspects that were not aware that that companies do you born profiling individuals. That you have the more. -- -- Kind of sinister things where. You got home. You know our our government trying to fly into our lives pro -- -- welcome like that and I just think you know -- it's that this happened. Trying to gradually I do you agree what you call an avalanche say. Especially five years they try to -- exponential but it's a gradual. -- indoctrination into it you know it eroding our civil liberties and before you know -- You know what -- basically -- controlled tribal leader and it will need to be aware. Period to period kind of feels like cut frauds in that proverbial slowly boiling pot of water. You agree Robert. Well I think it's more immediate and actually. The F Republican Party doing -- and I think a lot of what has happened including. Pervasive surveillance of the of telephone records -- records is already -- have chosen not not in the potentially more used to it. Good city a lot of utility that they protesters. That he got -- -- -- -- worth the investment so they've got something -- in mind they seemed does simply wanted group photograph and gunfire and urged. The persons who were in -- was photographed by looking at other portraits. In the records put them. They must be -- largest that doesn't seem to have more of their investment. And a little let's talk about a specific Google blasts. With Durham had says -- their collapses. Reported up the border company called named. And the idea is simple whom whenever you started new conversation with a stranger group Google -- -- that will take -- and and then uses this list to check the person's online profile. And when you look at the outside the name -- site that says. With the name tag your upload your photos shares you. Don't be a stranger. Does this reflect our attitude of -- over into anything wrong I don't care of the government's watching me. To where this kind of thing. Barely seems of interest to us and certainly do and general rate. A lot of negative activity. Yeah I guess the first code -- What people's. Hiding anything public record believe it is technologies doing what. What is his proposed 222 to beat. -- there yet aware of what's it. Facial recognition is. What do you know when it -- socialism -- to go from what that is. Do this solo or somebody. Without your knowledge to take a picture view and from the Internet to compare those pictures and notify you just on the street. And then get biographical information from the Internet on you -- people -- All the good lesson in new telephone number. Without your knowledge at all so the I would be very suspicious of anybody. Whom I met who was wearing blue glass and I know a lot of organizations. Have moved to prevent people Wear them to entry into their meetings and and and the like. I don't have papers -- in -- -- -- so I don't think that go convict drew in the news break. But Google. Has stood in your new record there with where -- infamous -- stuff. Google patent -- Smart contact collisions. With the camera built in. It's gonna give where supervision. With the ability to zoom. It will free and there -- Google glasses. To -- on a pair of contact lenses. And the firm is a row you developing Linden shoots green. And medical Spencer built in so possibly. Even though we wouldn't let me in the house with Google glasses. They might end up -- Google. It. They're right in the context of Ortiz and accredited animal. With success. Secretary to test the success so -- here but at least they can be fit in in details. And that's been the story technology for the last 200 years continually getting more miniatures that you don't have informed consent when you confronted. Originally yeah. Nobody except your picture like Shuler because Asia to sit down. And pulls through -- with a battery of -- to do -- you could see the camera. That's no longer true now as most people know whether it's a TV camera still. And a -- -- is apparently only the first step. They won't -- normal in the real recognize them because. Before long people have that Internet capability was in there. Of consequence. -- It -- you're -- problem we talk about -- -- all workers. Talk about him when a person's car remember we do you usually tell -- from there for outside. It's not -- some -- gators and say it is and and that often almost always proves to be true. But I have one of the world's top businesses was. Stephen Hawkins write him and productive. On the show a couple of months ago we've written book called waking up in time little small book. And once he explained while it's. That technology wise it really has been expedition to grow. He said -- law of computers doubling entering every twelve to eighteen months. Is is speeding. Off. And he literally thinks by 20/20 will have one computer. That won't make another computer that for a actually better and in Utah and that are important to battery. And he doesn't foresee your future work computer will take over. But he sees a future where a lot of the technology and what it does we won't be fully aware were all. Or fully understand. Of -- like this that I mean cameras on contact lenses. I think so -- -- marveled at the GPS capability just five years ago but possible to be driving with -- individuals. Who simply ask you a question. How to like get to go to the in fact is that GPS system when he gets back on so you would even though. That he is wearing a machine you'd think he was brilliant currency. Direction of the truth. You live in a little and house that you can outcome -- with the yeah the oil all -- And get a couple more minutes I do all right we'll come back we're talking about more than. Probably experts in this country Robert Ellis Smith publisher and editor the privacy journal. We'll let you know how to conduct fingers to bring down -- sure with a market flooded with calls and request. So we can -- report shows and say this double BO want to ask a question of Robert two's exit Euro. 187. I don't believe enough then -- this is in first thing we do a lot of shows on privacy. Leaders' concern oval it is opted to -- in the nation's. Facial. Recognition. We're talking to Robert Ellis Smith publisher and editor the privacy journal via. Expert that I called every time I've find something new on this subject Barbara one more time to let the losers no public contact -- a lot of people always do. Sure -- privacy journal dot net of the Internet privacy journal -- -- bet you bill addresses supporters. Quote procedural. Dot. All right. I what is something groups that wage of for a moment from visual recognition. Up on this couple months ago. I've been -- as about it and I'll warn you tell me when I say. Is this a little bit concerned -- Garland. Your exams. Are really do. This sort of -- Ohio Homeland Security officials. Are asking all owners of Smartphones. To. Seeing something since some. What they did Homeland Security released an -- Sure reality used on YouTube video it's available free on line and and they want your news that. To afford reports and photos of suspicious. Activity. They did this so shortly go for the one year anniversary. Of the Boston Marathon. And the officials on the web sites say they hope ball higher and might use say for Ohio to thrown out in these things suspicions. They -- -- spring and summer events. That they go to. A look back 1930. Germany. News socialist government. Had to -- gaga named Adolf -- begin in doctoring children and their parents to own form. Or discussions -- over here. That may be threats to the government. And local community organizers reported watched their neighbors and report back. To the bureaucrats. The -- watching reports. This this homeland securities. -- doesn't. A comfortable thing to me. Tell me I'm exaggerating the concern. You know exaggerating it's just been very difficult line to know we're draw. We do want citizens to cooperate and then there are deprived source actually heading off terrorism. Alerting authorities to suspicious behavior into patterns indeed that. Could be helpful to -- terrorism. Although they haven't it is very chilling to think that the somebody. With the Vegas is suspicions could report you to the authorities would do -- member or friend or -- on the street. And I guess we will continue to try to. Draw that line appropriately now we have more. Technologies it's gonna confuse the issues certainly apps. I guess makes sense as a way of accelerating this kind of reporting -- it has happened and Homeland Security didn't announce it today and it. They've got a better way for coordinating policy information and connecting the dots we still don't do that in very. In formal way and my impression of law enforcement is that electric a lot of information that topic is so crazy about connecting the dots and actually investigating and confirming suspects. And that's been my experience for many years -- closest and as an individuals -- up. I'll be less than awed by. The use of these apps. Until the law enforcement actually developed -- capability for. Making sense of the information that it's asking for. And vigorously using it to apprehend suspects. In the meantime I think it is it is chilling affect your. And in Britain. As soon as I say that in the I did I admit my prejudice of I learned too much over the last few years or read too much. I've talked to too many highly intelligent experts from all over the world. I basically don't trust our government. It suit and I'm being very very blunt but. As soon as my approach -- along those lines looked set visual recognition. And immediately my knee jerk reaction is. Won't -- bad they're gonna use it against this. I remember the photos of -- -- At the that X ray machine walking through on his way to play in the I think. Cool it may go double like that eventual recognition thing too big to. Well maybe if there's certainly what he took on that plane was much more crucial and and that should have been stopped we have the technology at that point -- actually stop that. I think that have. More basic problem is -- law enforcement is not properly trained to investigate at all that it opened it. They have the view the willingness who have the knowledge to actually investigate crimes and then. People -- at all a time when they report crimes law enforcement will. Gather information for sure it definitely well we don't think anything will come this. That that's because we don't train law enforcement I think could put the pieces together. That actually make cases approval case. It's still seat of the pants -- Using old Dick Tracy intuition not really using this. Technology that we have now that would allow them to I think pretty much more effective and and and putting two and two together and development provable case. And agreed to hadn't capable abusing gore. Understanding. Or searching all of this technology. We'd have to actually pay them for work. -- -- -- Loved Robert -- is always. A really enjoyed having you on the show. One more time for the losers please give me an idea how they can reach you and thank you so much. Thank you -- and we're privacy journal dot net on the Internet. Did you feel free to ask me some questions by email or telephone caller I'll be happy to send you an example my newsletter. It is but a bill brigades but he -- Korea. With -- about the latest in a technology. Facial recognition software. A time where you live your beer cup and notes the emblem. Here's a couple for you start cold. -- she. Yeah moat TI eat in. What does it focuses on the current of natural expression analysis. And it's gonna be incorporated. Into next generation communities by the winnable webcam. And the technology. Will be use tomorrow to review. Monitor your viewer engagement level. With whatever entertainment is pleased and proud of you answered questions searches how many times -- -- -- register interest during the program. And then beat that bad. For the television news the ultimate created decisions. Concerning program. -- Under you know. It's a sort. Called singing them. TTP. This. Sophomores already installed cameras. In more than 400 more. The software uses facial recognition that helped our. Side we're locations of visit online. So income up corporate relative information. On everything. From -- ratios. At the war. To the average age of the -- Patent filed by the company even suggest plans to link. I -- people. Where their social networking. -- To do him and relationships. That its intelligence. Education. And income. Talk about re in new world. There's no one is called Tesco. -- But that any group of Tom Cruise. Minority report. Walking down -- just being bombarded. With Albert. In -- is basically. A picture recognition software that shooting could be wrong but I think that while Tesco. As announced plans to install video screens. At its -- Caller's. Or huge or all of the country brings world news. In built camera. Equipped with facial recognition. Now. Ascertain the -- Jindal. Of individuals. Sharper. In order to be so view in prisons more stuff. And again you know -- When when we'd look at trees. There is the tendencies. And support. -- Them -- And and and I talked people like Robert was at the Prague's. Expert. Just on an almost always -- we were says that's in the pre stages. That's hardly any time soon. But again. One scientists in particular -- it in broad rule book called waking up in recent small. And explain to me. Is there is a thing called Moore's law. And movement and beckons I think he started until co founded don't know. And he came up with the the -- the mountain coal. Belief. That computers would double. Entering. Every twelve to eighteen month and sure enough that would. And the businesses who's won the -- and were -- to book who's on the show and several what's happening is more as well. Is evolving. At -- presidential speed of the words -- to. Small numbers for now weighs about six in about 32. And he expected computers. Won't make no computer by 20/20. That would be fractionally better. Then that computer room for and there are -- -- is important. Apron and does not think or reachable -- computers. Control thoughts. But that what they do will not be fully understood by arts. End their capabilities. Even though we may not understand mentally. Can be used for good and so when Robert goes with so only that technology is not quite a year. But there's soft Porter and it's on the Verizon. And in or are -- comfortable with the if it does -- -- what's being Albert. Just a thought in the picture. And probably already heard governor bill pretty judge gore opinion. Whole game. Face recognition technology. Seems to be on the way. Your -- may be kept on file worldwide death if you're done nothing wrong does that bother you 77%. Of you say you outs. Come next let's talk about hydrogen. Fuel. I recall we of the day it took except in new fact that I said that if you'll and so up oil drilling and tracking toward buying the product and she said no. We need to move to alternative. -- get a little education -- along those law suits.