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WWL>Topics>>5-20-14 2:10pm Angela: on giving up sugar

5-20-14 2:10pm Angela: on giving up sugar

May 20, 2014|

Angela talks with Eve and Steve Schaub, a couple whose family gave up sugar for a year.

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Automatically Generated Transcript (may not be 100% accurate)

So enjoy talking to Peter Max just a great artist of our time in a real privilege to talk to him a character. Anyway we are moving on. To perhaps my second favorite subject which is sugar. So you give up sugar from land or just decide to lose weight cut back on the search for one. How about giving up sugar for a year a whole year. Every kind of -- Didn't think in terms of taking your entire -- off sugar for here. It happened one family who not only survived. But -- flourish. Our guest today eat shop. And Stephen shop mother and father to -- and -- He is the author of the book. Year of milk sugar. Even Steven I appreciate you being here's Stephen is on phone it is in the studio with this. And let me tell you if you have any issues with sugar and these people and it answers because they lived. I applaud you I sincerely. Don't know how you did as I've said many times in this program. Sugar is my hero because Clinton it's not funny but I'm I'm ready to be open and to listen so I want you to take me back to. What was the discussion. Between the two -- that's. Yes you know we need to do well at all. Of a Doctor Who was talking about sugar making the argument that it acts in our bodies as a toxin as a poison. And he then went on to Cora Lee accessed consumption of sugar with. Basically every major American health epidemic that we're suffering from today. Everything from obesity and metabolic syndrome to heart disease hypertension. Liver disease. Even cancer and so that really got my attention. After I watched that video -- Felt like I couldn't go anywhere without seeking sugar it was as if you know I I had new glasses and suddenly I saw sugar. Everywhere that I went and I felt like I have to do something about. So Steve and you said why did I Giffords. Exactly so I think we have a lot of discussions Apollo what you wanted to do in the project and at first it was you know a little bit consistency in the short of the video. She kept persisting and -- Okay you didn't. Have one and study the proof in any of that too precious little girls are going one no sweets. Oh yes without an interesting day after I had approached Steve with this idea. You know -- hot this is what we can do that will not. Just affect the four people in our family but it'll affect on much larger community and write about it I can do blind. And you know have it be have a greater impact so Steve was wonderful because he thought it sounded interesting. The girls however we talked about it. We were on our way driving home from the visit to my mom's house. And ash and the girls are in the backseat and I started talking in these Harry gentle tones about the Stanley check that we are going to do in. Oh it was going to be so interest staying and it was gonna have backed how weak. And suddenly they figured out what I was talking about and they zeroed in on no sugar for a year and for at six year old -- an eleven new world. A year is four cover of course and they burst into tears immediately both of them it was a very. Difficult moment and am happy to say now in retrospect that I realize now it was perhaps the most difficult moment of law that. It was a long car drive -- It definitely at the line -- drive around and Steve turns to me -- they're bombing in the vaccine against all that went well. Thanks for the moral support. But the decision has been -- let me resonate as individuals and as a family did you see yourself consuming lot of sugar. Actually at the time. That this information came to lives I really thought that I was very conscientious. Very healthful IE you know -- always been interested in cooking and baking. And I was the kind of person who shop at the supermarket but also go to the farmers market also go to the health food store. I thought I read ingredients. So I thought you know I'm pretty aware of what's -- food. I was shocked when I when we started this project and really got intuit to realize how little line had known. And how many assumptions I had made about what was in the food that we were buying the store. On week because you know whereas before I would buy something and I start to punish them -- Yes the ethnic -- And so many other things as well I mean I encountered in everything from. Cold cuts and salad dressing and nannies. Crazies. Tortellini smoked salmon baby food and formula. Bread of every shape and size practically it's almost. In possibly -- supermarket to buy a -- that's in which there's only one we counted there's 250. Different brands and varieties. We found one that did not have any added -- and now. But the -- That's. Pretty it's fine it's pretty good you know is a rye bread. It is it's beef -- party in her past be the party right because the other versions answer what is it. Now with the Brett I'm not sure I don't think -- -- that in store -- on behalf. But one of the problems with with. Breads that are marketed as healthy grants that they'll often put things that sound good. Light you know evaporated organic can even answer or honey -- you know organic -- passes you. Unfortunately. The bad news is that there's no such thing as a good sugars all of these things are doing the same rights act. Being in your body creating toxic by products going straight year. So it doesn't matter people asked me all the time what about Naples there what about honey what about natural sugars. And so that's the bad news that he uses that they're all doing the same chemical thing in your body doesn't matter. Okay. You didn't give me like she got down to the specifics. You did not -- No. -- the product down there the you know they'll play and when we started the project you know it the daunting task at first. Armed because as you said you know we really felt that we were eating healthy felt that we knew what was in our food and Google -- -- -- as a parent it was upsetting. And but -- -- properly you know we made mistakes in the beginning but we stuck with -- -- after a couple of months you into good -- -- the the goal. The goal. You want me to speak and OK -- the goal for me was I'd side this and this might sound a little weird I saw this project as a big. And and into uncharted territory like I I had never heard of anyone trying to eat without any added sugar in their food and once started to realize how pervasive it really wise and how potentially harmful and it could beat. I wanted to see what would be involved why it was sort of like a research project. Would really be and it's really hard what is that Sunday. About our food supplies should it -- it. In fact I I frequently act came back to thinking to myself. You know why why isn't so difficult to know what's in our food these different ingredients with all these crazy long gains. On my goodness you know that as Steve mentioned it was one of the hardest things with the beginning because I'd go to the store. And I needed to have a magnifying glass in the dictionary with me to know what was in all of these packages boxes and bags on the show. In the first couple of months that they were -- -- because. Every county went out you know. A lot of negotiating with you know waiters and shops and and we found solutions to make it work. That is a very important part because you're talking to a city a tremendous restaurants have -- and we are learning however. That we can communicate and not -- -- Yeah yes yes and that was an important thing we -- into a kind of -- them. Because we want to still be able to go out to restaurants go to social occasions. You know we didn't wanna have to live under a rock for the year to me that would have been completely. Against the point -- pointless to be normal all. In had to go out and live and be happy and enjoy our food but still be able to avoid that should be added sugar. And again it's only should you were not looking at salt you were not looking at fat right looking at sugar -- we're gonna take a break we're gonna come back and we're gonna get down. To the specifics. And I wanna know about if there was any of the for a few who had any withdrawal. We'll be right back. Even Steve shop. Wrote a book or she wrote a book but they lived for a year. A year of no sugar with their two young daughters and as you said it was quite an adventure so now you've you've made the commitment you're gonna do it. You did you set down rules okay how how are we going to do this. We did we did we you know -- -- -- again we it was a learning curve all all the way along. So at the beginning. The rules were kind of simplistic and and may be a little naive. We we we sent everybody in the family okay here's what we're gonna do we're gonna say that once a month. We are allowed to have one sugar containing treat as a family. And it'll be a dessert that we make it -- usually on so for example if it's your birthday. You get to pick whatever that tree will be and then we'll sit down and enjoy it together as -- now -- -- -- This rule was strategic I was trying to keep everybody on board if I told my fixture onto -- and having Britney caked on the next year. You know that was gonna be a big. Big stumbling blocks and has a month that was a hard thing for me to use it to try and wrap my minor and -- so I said well that's that's how will deal with that. But what turned out to be a really wonderful side effect side benefit of that rule was that. Once a month we had our sugar check in with our tongues -- our pilots. And we came to green -- that they were changing vary dramatically. All of science found that in the beginning we enjoyed those treats tremendously and then as time went on we enjoyed them less than last. Until finally when we got to the -- time it was my husband expert in September. And he asked me to make him then it's very decadent banana cream pie which it had before and knew that we laughed. So I spent all day making his crazy concoctions. With -- different you know recipe -- did it all come together. Now and you do the custard and you do the craft and then you do the cream on top and then you have this Karen drizzle and then they're shaving the chocolate. On top of that and we all sat down and took a bite and oh my god it was way too sweet. And it I found it to be awful. Nobody finished their -- I took 2 bites and I am so disappointed. Because of course we've been looking forward to it and hadn't really realized that we wouldn't. In -- something of that level of sweet anymore. And I got a pounding headache and I had to go brush my teeth to get the taste better my -- and Steven are you equally disappointed. I won't actually it and you know dessert that I have logged in the past and that was released in the the first time there really realize just how dramatically. But we thought was we had changed and how much to something light. A simple bold move with a little cream on top was really more pale wanted. You know based on that let's go to our caller Paul because I think he's asking about fruits all. Paper but apparently are -- -- into. -- I recently tried the people waiting on that date the bat but -- too much -- -- about diet. But and I and I know that sugar or bad it. Growing up this street is so good but very detrimental but yeah -- -- so -- aren't being on the Internet and the like -- -- -- -- -- really bad or one chip in which he really could. Make sure that the expert but I'm really due. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- okay that's an excellent question and I often get asked. On did you eat fruit during your years no sugar and the answer is yes we did. On the reason for that is because. When you're eating a piece of fruit you're getting that fructose. Which is the bad part of sugar that's the part that we worry about that's causing all that. Negative effects in our bodies and long term health consequences. But you're getting it. In a relatively small amount and it's wrapped up in a whole bunch of fiber and micro nutrients. So you take all those things in together. And one -- the antidote for the other it slows the absorption of of the fructose in your body. And you're getting all these wonderful benefits from the fiber from the nutrients so it all works out nature's god at all. In incorrect proportion. Whereas when you drink of a glass of juice for example how many apples. Go into a glass of apple juice you're just getting fructose you're not getting. -- wonderful fiber in noun not and in your drastically reducing any nutrients you might be getting so -- I'm sorry god. Are there any better rich deep -- or ordinary and it. All I would say all fruit is good and eat fruit fruits wonderful fruits and vegetables -- course -- and it don't get rid of the -- Yes don't get rid of the fat. That you need to. In the -- I found out about this throughout the years you can talk about more about it. Cognizant of it it lets you know that your full if you -- you know really low fat diet. You never know that you are actually full because the guys that -- and he actually yes. Continued safety and fat when you're eating fat your body releases. You know that the hormone. Leptin to tell you that you -- full. When you eat sugar. The first -- does not register and so therefore it does not cause any hormones to be released therefore you don't know your phone so you keep consuming. So that's why we're so much better off to eat the fat you'll feel. Yeah example what is your example of a good -- -- is not a book or died of course -- game obviously. Pot meet such as -- Turkish and -- -- the -- which kind of in my stable. Sure well and again I'm always quick to point out to people you know I'm not a doctor and I'm not a nutritionist. And I'm getting my information from people who are way smarter about biochemistry in the human body then I will ever be. But I would say that any of those things sound fine to me as long as you're careful. About where the -- could be cropping up -- -- because there're always crazies or glaze or use their talking about meets you know. Salad dressings any kind of thing that's used as of flavor enhancer. That's something you should yes barbecues sides. All those things sauces of any sort. You mustard saint. But both ketchup and mayonnaise of course have sugar and so many of these things that we used to make food taste better are high a there there's a high probability that there could be quite a lot of sugar hiding in the. But it will like one question only up by. About vegetables. I'd say eat vegetables as much as you want. Hall thank you very very much for calling and you know what he brings I think a lot of questions that people do have. At some point. Doesn't your body wants something to eat your answer was at nine as it -- that's rightly sometimes we just cut at the pizza for and that's what we would have. I did a lot of experimenting in the kitchen with baking and I I do have recipes in my book. And you know -- of the best results of those experiments and you know we learned. To have pancakes without any closer instead we'd play units and cut up from the fruit on top. Or are we have oatmeal in the morning and we put -- on top instead of brown sugar. You know so it was a matter of choosing things you know we didn't have to get away from -- but we did have to get away from that. Added sugar extracted for tents and I I just real quickly because this is this is. Where people often get confused the scientific name for sugar is -- -- And -- crows is usually broken down into roughly half the cut in half fructose. So glucose of course is something that you know is is necessary for our -- it -- ourselves we get energy fragment. You know we we're not trying to talk about a year of no blood glucose I would like our chances. But it does trip people up because you know he turned up blood sugars so it's way you know or are you talking about. Simple sugars during that carts now. We were talking about sugar I -- sugar with a capital acts in the sweeteners. You know and there are -- home many European I've counted now 54 have a list on my website which is here no sugar -- on. And you can go look at all the different sugars that contain. Fructose -- us as the bad guys glucose is fine. Some sugars have more fructose than others crystalline fructose for example is -- to house where about it yes and god may have sent to eighty or 90% for tests on lot of people say oh I -- that -- and that's natural. But in fact it's actually worse than regular table sugar if what you're concerned about as I think he should be is the the content of for. Well the thing sugars yeah. Now on starting here going like you. Don't here that don't yeah I. Hanging in your every word I know what we're gonna take another break when we come back we're gonna continue to talk about the specifics and I want to say. Tonight's. He is going to be at the Garden District -- 6 o'clock to sign her book so you can run over there and get it. Stay with -- that we have a lot to talk about about their year of notion of an activist. Even Steven job lived with out sugar for a year and -- has written a book. Also there to delightful daughters gave up sugar -- before we go what you'll learn how. Girl stopped crying in the -- Eventually. Yeah and then they said okay we'll try it. Yeah and I don't think we really gave them a lot of choice did we -- now we do. And that's I think they -- -- and I really provided I'd say about 90%. Of their food supply. Between the fact that I generally was responsible for the shopping in the cooking dinner and breakfast and then packed lunches. When they go to school. On so you know the only thing. -- that came was when we ventured beyond that you know whether they'd go to a birthday party are we social event and read all about that in the book on -- different interesting thing that happened. When we did. OK so -- rules for that Sheridan yes we know Steve -- Steve what's the altitude like. Sneak a Snickers. No actually. I was really a -- arena that was pretty hardcore popular in this for me to do it I said sure fine let's do it on the. I didn't 10%. Yet there's no nothing else but me and you know I -- remember a couple of times driving back from the University of Vermont and along the route I couldn't find any. Oh convenience stores and store there and yeah the -- off. Paul and haven't come home and -- have this. You know star looked and it -- unity and I'm like well I didn't -- -- if I'm starting to -- and -- and I -- that I didn't -- Did you learn to deal with stuff like that you know we've learned. It'll bring food with people always had to note note sugar you know facts available and that really solve a lot of the problems in the Vatican trials that's. Well we learned that planning with key yes -- absolutely would have to because when you have that. That opportunity they tend to yes and we -- here I'm the kind of person when I'm hungry. You know I'll keep that needs nearest cardboard box I mean you know everything goes out the window as a powder sugar on -- Right. The kids that became the the issue too because obviously you know we didn't want them to be -- and we had. A lot of conversations with them throughout the years we've all seen how they were doing and trying to you know stay at the happy and we doing this project. Yes ON and along those lines Greta kept a journal. And and wrote you know and -- I recommended it to where it's -- if you want to. And and I'll read it but only if you want me to and and she was very open about it and she poured her heart out into these journal entries and she all over them you know one issue -- loved the project and felt that -- -- special and unique and interesting and everybody needs to know about this the next minute she'd be like. You're not life. -- -- I think that just being a little girl we had to take a very quick break back to -- no sure tell me about some of the things that you learn in that year. Although I learned so many things. And so many thing you know of course the first thing that ever eluded to is that prevalence of sugar in our food supply. And the fact that it you know inevitably if there was something that -- thought couldn't contain sugar that's exactly where it would be. So I found that I had to. Read read read all ways and get to know the products that were available to -- In a much more comprehensive way let me ask if something -- sugar free. And I was very skeptical -- -- usually that either means. That they're there to get -- it's always took something to compensate for that now sometimes. You know if they remove the sugar they're gonna. And Jack up the salt and the fat. You know conversely. If you see something that's fat free usually means they jacked up the -- to make it still -- palatable. So and I was always skeptical and often if it's sugar free they will put in either fake sugars. Or they'll put in some sugar alcohol. Both of which can be correlated to use. Pretty wacky side effects you know gastric distress among them. And we just decided you know what we're staying away from all of those things sugar is bad enough. Without having to get into a whole bunch of other chemicals and unknowns. You say that you got -- laughs and yes that's true and it's interesting because we felt we weren't healthy and I found personally that I have more energy which -- something I have always struggled with the songs I can remember having that crash in the middle of the afternoon. I certainly found that I didn't have that crash and it wasn't even something I really thought would be. You know on the table to be cured by not having had a -- that. Well again where we are disappointed we're not gonna get the suitable and when he eighteen but we're gonna move on -- we'll we'll get another one I know that. But we're also going to go on with our discussion about this incredible book. A year without sugar written by. On eve shop and her husband and their two kids. Who went on this adventure for a whole year of no sugar and everything they learned and so let's pick it up from there. Things that -- Things we learned clarity talked about the getting sick last -- kids went from missing. Ten and fifteen days the school year to missing two or three. That's it I that was a really important thing to do yet and it's a piece of the puzzle. And -- looked more. And the things that's -- you know people don't like to talk about but I have a whole chapter in the book entitled doesn't lie. Because. That you know I I couldn't help but notice. And you know it is a -- in that our bodies are functioning back more efficiently that your healthier it's another indicator. -- -- thought that was terribly and that was universal within him yes it it's yeah in my kids are like about the week we found you know sugar hiding in surprising places we found that the school. Unfortunately. Can be a pretty big -- in the media that they provide. I'm sorry -- -- it's a very complicated issue with you know outsourcing the food and how you know. The expense and so on -- you know also the teacher. You know in a very well meaning. Weigh one to reward the kids and they give them candy they have hot chocolate with reading hour. You know others on many the kids would come home and they tell me about these things. And I was astounded at the number of times both in school and and other events. At you know played aide said you know all the different things sports that the kids -- shocker was thrown at. And in a way that I had no idea how did you handle that mean. Did you go to the teachings say the girls can't hand. It's hot chocolate I didn't do that -- I felt like you know -- of -- what I thought with a better strategy was to work with the kids. And we had a rule going back to yet another rule. With the girls and it was this is only for them not for Steven but whenever they went two for example a birthday party and everybody around them with having. One thing the same thing. The choice of whether or not to have that would be up to them and what astounded me was that sometimes they did choose not -- it. On and that the only condition wise you must come home and tell me about it there's no guilt there's no repercussions. But it's part of our recent. And that was a great -- didn't wanna encourage them to lie to meet to go sneaking around behind my back I feel like. This is something we're trying to teach them to make their own decisions. And as long as they have that information about their food about what's in it you know that's the goal is that they will make their own best informed decisions. And also that that societal pressure I think that's -- -- have also looking you know you have your birthday party in oh she's not you know her. But as an adult. Only face the same is true absolutely. And an especially -- -- -- birthday party you don't have a pizza cake it's like you don't like person has it is you know there's all this. Metaphor it's wrapped up in food you know we use food force on many things you know to mark occasions. To celebrate to tears up when we're sad to to express love and affection. And what I found was that you know it's all well and good when you're attacking you know it's this big food. In -- processed food and junk food and that's one thing. But then if you start attacking you know grandma's homemade chocolate chip cookies right people felt very differently about it and so I had to be aware of that distinction in people's -- you know again. People's one kind of triggers may be bad and another. But in your body it's not doing -- so it was a -- for tonight. In you bring up something simple food is love for many people. So then you know you're breaking up. Yeah yeah yeah. It was savior and that too aren't you. Didn't empire and it was it was hard in there were occasions when I would be out -- stopped in the -- vocal and have them manipulate now. But she did kinda feel a little a lot of the group. You know that it. I want everyone to stay with this Steve definitely you that wants to -- this we're gonna go to news we're gonna come back and we're gonna continue. On this subject for another 15 minute -- I -- so appreciative of those who have called. We have that in eruption about the Super Bowl but we're gonna start back on our sugar and then we'll have our Sergio stay with us. Well we're going to continue our discussion without. Even Steve -- all the belt the book they wrote concerning. Their year of no sugar. And once again someone remind everyone that she will be signing the book tonight at 6 o'clock at the Garden District book store. You were talking about lessons learned so let's let's continue with that. Well let's see what else did we learn we learn that. Cars the hardest meal of the day could be breakfast. Also you know snacks were very challenging. Because they're so many things that we have this understanding the sort of cultural agreement to that are -- healthy like flavored yogurt. Or granola bars and breakfast bars and of course -- -- -- those things come up at breakfast and it's acts snack time. And you know often a granola bar can have as much if not more sugar in it than a candy bar. Same goes for flavored yogurt so what we would do is we would have a yogurt and we would play at some very -- and -- at banana. Something like that. And and it would be every bit as and good tasting it would have some sweet and it but you could feel good that you were getting that fiber that was supposed to be there. So when people come up to -- they say word alive again. I yes he gets out alive and what how often tell people is that the very first place but I would recommend starting is with drinking sugar. Don't drink your sugar number one. It in the recent studies it's been proven that drinking sugar -- can actually be more harmful than eating it. They're not entirely sure why that is. But it's also a tremendous. Source of that added sugar that we consume on a regular basis so you know not just your sodas but also your sports drinks. You're bottled teas. And of course Africans fruit juices -- you know you you need to look at it as being in that same category as -- Another thing I tell people. Is to read labels everywhere you go and like I said if you assume okay this this absolutely doesn't have added sugar in it. Then be ready to find it because -- -- Murphy fly you know the moment you stop looking is when you're going to actually encounter it -- if I I feel like there's almost nothing. That they won't try to put added sugar. In as a product and -- a lot of reasons for that one is that it's inexpensive another is that it acts as a preservative in the third is that it makes things. Taste better especially things that maybe if he took the sugar out they would taste horrible so they may be masking things that are in that product. OK we do have a caller we have. Jim sing Mon who is with the American sugar cane Lincoln and -- Jimmy wanted to make a comment. Yes say good morning good afternoon may I just wanted to make a few comments. And in offer some different types of approaches with a torch to. Obesity in America and that kind of stuff and I think that that when would be looking at blaming sugar for so many problems. It's it's a singular approach. What we would like to to have folks consider is is moderation in the balance died at the complete balanced diet and an active lifestyle. And and use an approach is balanced and moderate and active and who would like Stahl reporting. Blaming once food item 44 this obesity problem that we have in America. What what do you attribute the obesity problem -- Well I think I think it's a a number of things I think we're consuming too many calories we hear much more inactive and lifestyle. Our kids play on computers instead of playing outside. We've we've just we've we've lost touch with. The importance of balance in the diet moderation in the diet and an active lifestyle as being a part of but healthy living. You would agree with but even saying though that there's an awful lot of added sugar in many of the very common products that people. Consume weekly. Welcome to some. What extent I do bird but the fact of the matter is that when we talk about sugar -- talking about some -- -- kind of -- that we produce an arcane fields here in Louisiana. And and if you looking at sure yours since the 1970s. Per capita sugar consumption. And once again sugar is too grows the product that we produce. Has gone down by 34%. That that those numbers those are FDA. USDA numbers. So blaming. All of map tool pusher as the cause of obesity -- and it being toxic and all of those kinds of things. We believe is misleading. And and -- can you imagine wall hands without. A traffic -- mall and or aunts and -- probably -- or. Can't eat the central. Grocery. I wouldn't want to I wouldn't want to do -- are. Always we could even have a Sugar Bowl and. Now -- now. That's the least -- -- and minute -- Now and so and so you know I think the bid blaming one through product for all of these issues is I think it. I think it's it's not the right approach -- -- balance moderation and an active lifestyle. Is is so much more. Balanced type of approach. Well Jim I really appreciate the call in and your thoughts and and I just thank you will stay in touch. Going back is we just have another couple of minutes without even her husband just some of your final thoughts since and Stephen we haven't forgotten you. I don't know bang and I want it to respond to you what it was him. That yes it's true that that consent and its growth is gone and the reason for that is that the consumption of Africa's answer. And other sugars has gone op and that's because it's less expensive. My grandmother was born in 19100. During her lifetime she would eat a quarter of the amount of sugar. That we now consumed today and when I -- -- Nina who crews and all the other sugars as well for his answer. Crystalline fructose -- it on the line you can again 54 hours ago. I'm different names for sugars so. Four times as much sugar ads and they would be in nineteen country. That right there is a tremendous. Increase and what happens is it's like anything that you used to. You unique market to get that same effect on your palate and in your brain in the pleasure center of your brain against reward. And so you know we eat more of it and then we've Moorestown and it's like any substance that addictive. Guess the bottom line with the two if you. And -- like cultural and made it. He -- a year where not trying to eradicate sugar in the face of the year but not to feel that it's very important to be mindful. And use sugar for special occasions keep it small and keep its -- Get that -- a couple times a year and then beat. You got it we don't want our attic you know of -- -- but it's. Not something you do every day. You all are very special yeah -- much success with this -- Steve thank you for hanging with us -- absolutely. And one final thought again it's at the Garden District book store it's tonight at 6 o'clock. You are a delight -- thank you very much. And I want to also thanked doctor Monica Monica because she's going to be on in just a few minutes and were gonna talk about. The debate going on in Baton Rouge between the optometrists. An ophthalmologist. So stay with us.

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