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WWL>Topics>>5-27-14 10:10am Garland: with author Sidney Powell on the justice system

5-27-14 10:10am Garland: with author Sidney Powell on the justice system

May 27, 2014|

Garland talks with author Sidney Powell about her book Licenced To Lie, which discusses the wide-ranging problems in the nation's justice system.

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Automatically Generated Transcript (may not be 100% accurate)

Welcome back to do a think tank usually don't -- what we're gonna have bone. All regards Ramon disabled on today. I consider this or one of the most important shows up -- if not the most important. In my figures on the show and talk and a book about a book called license to law. Exposing corruption in the Department of Justice by -- hole. -- five years our -- subject bird truly every day of via automatic Google searchers. Through personal experience and -- appear elect the elements all the admitted in Caracol Lebanon. -- -- aware that the legal -- -- assume -- is slowly boiling. Like the proverbial. World -- on where the threat. As up followed the 404 page home wonder. And earth work communicate the importance of this complicated reality. Turns up the answer was simple just read the book cover -- leaders ports of license allies is true story was stroll -- illegal. And an ethical tactics. Used by headline grabbing federal prosecutors. In their north cystic pursued power. Its scope. Reaches from the US department of justice's view descended to the White House. And as a scathing attack on prosecutors and judges and India. Entered the question at the end of this carver. Did you know you can be prosecuted convicted and imprisoned in this country reports on that was not even while. But even after acquittal. You have no recourse. Against prosecutors who hide evidence vital to -- dependence. -- call I appreciate you coming in so much. My pleasure garlands and thank you for that glowing introduction. That you would give I do people breeders' I had no idea. How long you've been in the in June and as they lawyer younger do all the work -- Of them an attorney for 35 years I've started my practice as an assistant United States attorney for the western district of Texas. I'm the youngest appointed in the country at the top. And proceeded to prosecute all comes -- federal cases. In the western district and then -- I'm not seeing the appellate section for the western district of Texas. Later moved to Dallas who started an appellate section for the northern district of Texas. All in all up at over 500 appeal looked at circuit 350 up on being criminal cases. And about a hundred and to be civil and someone in the product practice approximately 25. Years ago. -- -- I'm an editor of the fifth circuit reporter and president of the circuit bar association president the American academy of appellate lawyers. And -- act. Active and teaching the practice football. -- to begin discolored solution Lugo to the end virtually be in your book and equal. -- -- As for me you are questioned deeply whether I can continue group practice war. I've lost trust and paid a most of the judges. Georgia's of that don't -- -- rule Bailey's Foleo mobile all. You could mean ruling against the government -- rule with the government. -- one can be heartbroken by court on tea. The very is bar associations. Have abdicated. All responsibility. Regarding violations of these high profile lawyers and prosecutors in general. You'll change in the Department of Justice has been for the work. In the meantime misguided ignorant over -- ambitions. -- cystic. This almost current and former prosecutors. Some approved destroyed innocent people. Or. Doing very well in this country. Or you still practice and. You know I am still practicing. Still have our current client. I don't know of the undertaken in new. Do you see. This changing. It the change we are too good and not to like it substantially better than there's absolutely no reason for people to -- around. Convicted imprisoned in the country. And we want to do a better job of making sure that does not happen. And and and get -- -- open. The cases that I product all over this country including your New Orleans. Withholding. Of evidence. And the big big big central and something called the Brady rule. Right thing -- of the constitution. Their required. To show -- bothering. That is being prosecuted. In the evidence in particular evidence that might prove there in the suits. But they don't do this all over the country and judges allow. Good DA is allow it. The -- bar association's a lot how how can that day. It's completely wrong and Garland. The Supreme Court years ago right deeper to Maryland that there's a constitutional. Be part of the prosecutors to give the defendant any evidence that ten to. A favor as the sand. That would help impeached witnesses against him down or that would mitigate this and and that is in fact the constitutional obligation. And I. I don't understand while prosecutors are complying with that we did years ago I think most. Lung assistant United States attorneys do. But. We need to and it's cancel. -- inexcusable. It's an ethical requirement under rule three point eight of them out for the ethical rules and every state. And it's. The law that's what they're required and they are required to seek out evidence that might be favorable to the defendant and get -- -- -- what would happen if we -- citizens. Are accused by the of the local the he would ever. What would happen -- Oh yeah it could be prosecuted for obstruction of job. Can they be prosecuted. They could be anybody would do. I've never read one -- didn't prosecutor's view the only. And -- I'm now want is a former district attorney and tax. Ku couldn't and the man in prison for murder for twenty the years. He became a state court judge on basis of having convicted the person -- -- that a part of the election campaign. Nickname with him anger and and after 25 years of Michael Morton being wrongly -- that the DNA evidence finally. Showed that he was not the person that supposedly killed wife meanwhile the real killer -- kill somebody -- and now three. So the Texas court actually conducted than usual court of inquiry. Via the text bar. And Kim Morton campaign Anderson a former state court judge now arrested in open court. I'm still a grand total of ten days in prison. He was required to surrender his law license and obviously he's not on the bench anymore but I don't think the punishment they're quite fit the crime. -- news. Ten days from Michael Morton 28 the year of life and present. It was strange question but a base it on Tuesday. You mentioned. During beauty in Roland scandal these are the renders and the other entities -- along with that. 01 of the people that was supposed to test by opening a -- congress. And who have I could go five billion dollar life insurance policy. And he was a parade about tough supply. Showed a dead supposedly from suicide but. Almost all Libya but exported to somebody killed. Then we go to senator Ted Stevens Ford I think important line to the presents -- will most powerful people in the world. Prosecuted the prosecutors withheld evidence. Ruined his career he died in a plane crash from for the -- over -- in your book. That the plane loads of quit with the terrain awareness warning system. That had been. Inhibited. Or -- able. One where you're not afraid to write this book. Well. It can't help people everyone out. Of the first answer simply thank god did not get a spear sphere. And to be a little more lighthearted about it now I am presbyterian. And of course is out of the barn now and I'm happy and healthy and I'm not -- in Canada. But you know it it was something not felt like -- morally ethically and legally obligated to -- does couldn't stand the fact that the troops. What kitten and the people in the -- -- and things like chief White House counsel. General Counsel deputy director of the FBS. The latest. In the newly confirmed. Head of. Of the Department of Justice criminal division of the person in the destroyed Arthur Anderson eighty thousand jobs with that only to be reversed by the Supreme Court and not thing because. They had insisted in the district judge -- gone along with. -- always sort of -- Comstock director -- lips mature of the audience and spent. Craig -- by remember in Brooklyn. Three people were neutrally charged not 85000. Justice Department to have the wherewithal. And the knowledge to prosecute those three. Without destroying 85000. Families -- 85000. People but. Specifically elected to bring down company itself and my wrong and they knew that. I don't recall how many were actually potentially charge that I didn't that they affirmatively and made the decision for the first time in the history of the country to indict and destroy the company itself. And the 85000 jobs that went well and -- Perspective on that is that frankly it was a big power play Anderson violations could have and should have been handled civilly. Because as it turned out that was criminal intent from the jury instructions in the Supreme Court had to reverse the entire case around and not think. Because what the prosecutors could cobble together wasn't crowned at the time and they didn't. Technical criminal intent out of the instructions. So it could have been handled -- SEC or other agencies pursuant to civil. Rule in place at the time instead of destroying the company but the ones they destroyed Anderson and prove they can do it. Every other entities they went to gave over whatever the government one -- them to get over last place after the plane today and Anderson copper. So for example when Anderson went to America I mean when the government went Merrill Lynch. To. Prosecute them they gave the government whatever government want it. To avoid the destruction dealt Arthur Anderson and that included an extremely onerous on prosecution agreement. They're required anyone who spoke on behalf of Maryland with the government to basically recite the government's view that the case. And -- named everybody is adding things to do with the Nigerian Enron barge transaction even remotely as an unindicted co conspirator. Including our men in town council. That they all had below the lawyer hop. And we couldn't even find out what -- and help counsel and test two before the grand jury. I hit all of that evidence problem and it was misleading on that -- very shorten. Affirmatively mostly in some respects. Talked earlier about the Ted Stevens carries in -- and I think of when does say that you've -- the most powerful people in the cement. It was the longest serving Republican in the United States senate and you -- the -- They have been a former -- attorney as a decorated World War II hero. It was literally a living legend and Alaska. It turns out it was working on the book and current. Shall the report came out that was the investigation. Prompted objects stolen and Solomon and DC. When it was obvious there have been government misconduct in the Stevens prosecution. The mind prosecutor in the head of the criminal position at the time. Even prosecution the person and micro managed Stevens prosecution for the government. Was actually be -- prosecutor of the Maryland defendant in the Enron barge case. And the Enron barge case that tickets six years on that. But the thirteen prosecutors accidentally produced -- seeing seeing that -- yellow highlighting. By. Free African rob war and the original Enron barge prosecutors they ideal hotline in before the trawl exculpatory evidence the paper that the and a and then specifically -- the key word from the summaries click. And and and they've worked for six miners. To make sure. You know and yeah it is and and all of your renditions of bobbled charges. Sounded to me like they didn't even want to hear your side. That they for the prosecution from the beginning to. Is that certainly felt that -- That was certainly true and in most respects of the district court judge you tried -- and -- barge case. And then as you read in the book out extremely disappointed in reaction on the circuit too well that. And in the U. Senators Stevens case he was proven not guilty beer and -- short bureau or. Guys and -- suspicions playing for a and then the judge would shoot the auto lot. Hired outside prosecutors investigators. Common -- 500 page report. On the wrong doing Bob jones' apartment. And the conclusion. -- thoughts. Drugs well Bowen had not specifically. Ordered the government to turn over. Such materials to the it's as they were required by at all. Cubic couldn't be prosecuted for what it. It should just support system there. Yes -- that element now in what's called the Brady compliance order to make sure there a specific order on the ball. And the way the transcript reads. The government repeatedly represented that it would honor Brady obligations. And you know as certain as specific order is entered although he had ordered them verbally to produce -- -- But it required bond at all. I don't have to remind him that is required for a law that thought they were more you're. And on top of that but hell no blooming well that is required by -- law and they know exactly what they're Brady obligations are I don't believe -- second and you. How power well credentialed attorneys didn't know exactly what they were doing. I won't reduce of the audit scuba -- records from when it. But why you've worn -- the U -- who's fairly here and his family. -- terrorized by the government for signatures he did nothing wrong and in fact they could never say exactly what he did world. Put him in prison. Terrified and he and his family. When you would talk to his wife. She said she felt federal all of whom wouldn't be indicted cause he told the truth to the grand jury. To the FCC. And the -- bankruptcy examiner. And she felt like the judge would give them a fair trial and then they get the evidence they needed board that -- bets. Yeah and they believe the jury instruction would be pair. And they believe. Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals would straighten out the maps. And with Brennan's. Were released. With similar convictions all convictions roles are reversed. They said we -- long past the point where she and her husband and children or any of the prints. Could -- the system of justice that respected all there -- a lot. Crude -- would work at all anymore. What would happen if we replaced her thoughts with the American. If they understood. What you have in this book. And believed. What do you think the effect would be in the country. I think the country would be devastated. And people need to read quite a lot to understand all of that there are things that can be done to make them better. In response to the shall -- report board budgets well on the investigation of the Department of Justice. Bipartisan group of senators I think there were six Democrats and Republicans. Proposed quote cult senate bill 22197. Both parents and disclosure of evidence act. The constitution project which is a bipartisan or nonpartisan organization. Got a letter in support of that content that legislation. More than 200 former federal judges US attorney's assistant US attorneys including well. Urged congress to go ahead and passed some legislation. BA BA came out. American Bar Association huge National League organization came out and support that legislation. As did the national association of criminal defense lawyer and every other league organization. -- -- The only entity that opposes repair and disclosure of evidence act which would cut -- the Brady rule might get a wall on the the book as opposed to in the case law. And would also put. Penalty provisions for prosecutors violated. The -- linked group that opposes. It's what I can only say it now ironically named department of just. And and what's happened -- the parent. It currently stalled. -- think -- how can that be. I'm all the groups the Apollo pro group. That you just mentioned. And -- we're gonna read your book and in the search ability over the last five years. The Genesis apartments seems like this monolithic. Totally your ball boom all organizations. That as the Altima and pork. Maybe more than anybody else how -- shooters. Look at what happened that Ted Stephens. And not do something unless there were Brady and the Justice Department. I think that pretty well -- that. -- -- -- -- And it's an abomination. The Justice Department should be the one entity that. Equally important. The actual law not. Discriminatory -- picks and chooses based on political ideology or. Who they're angry -- that day here that they want. And the message to it in that case they wanted to send a message to Wall Street and on -- And I don't know what that meant that was Ted Stevens but it cost in the senate seat changed the balance of power in the senate basically helped facilitate the enactment of obamacare. But and they are too many of the Department of Justice should not be politicized it should be able to one in the country of not in the war. That truly. Seeks to enforce the law without regard to anything except a law. And that's not what's open. All right I'm told there -- conceal another ten minutes for him. Come right back problems and or try and play and will make it when we come back talking about a book that each and every one of bureau ought to -- read license. To law. Exposing corruption of the Department of Justice by Sydney now. If we go to our web should we've been linked to -- and him talk about license to lie. Exposing corruption in the US Department of Justice by Sidney -- I think it's the most important book of the road maybe the most important sure there redon. In this -- in your book. After senator Stevens -- as was proved in his soon to doctors to the federal bureau. In the case says quote. The government disregarded the constitution. The fellow -- rule of cruel procedure. And will assemble a Supreme Court peaceful. In its own thing misconduct. The government presented faults covenants. All in on this case and it said. The case the good George says this case is that sad story and a warning to every war in these citizen can be convicted. Prosecutors helped them wondering nor the constitution. And willing to present. Faults. Why should my listeners care. And in doing everything they didn't. I think they're largely unaware. Most of us go about our lot stronger than that we can't everyday to do all the things we need to do. And don't have an opportunity even to look out -- and responsibilities. Many times. But hopefully the book is written political thriller and such a way that people will be more inclined to pick it up and read it. Knowledge is power public awareness on the issue is usually important because. State court judges are elected in my district attorneys are elected and stay. Judges could be required Mara to enter Brady. Compliance orders and to require prosecutors to pretty evidence favorable to the defense. And. And useful and not allow summaries at all there's no reason in my -- -- -- -- -- -- -- we've been given actual evidence that summary. It wouldn't be possible. And a pencil and -- and -- Stephen Case -- there an opportunity for a mistake and minister of so unless a witness to life is being threatened orders an issue of national security there's no reason or prosecutors not to -- over the full document like testimony and transcripts and notes and went -- And judges are just gonna have to start according to data. The federal judges can certainly start entering any compliance order tomorrow if they would. And I'm hoping a lot of judges read the book to them in that at least. Several of them have -- and irony. In the nick in your book you you point out what probably most rewarding the -- thought it was minor. If I understand it correctly remember correctly moves chief prosecutor's. In court. Watching. His his people prosecuted carries as a former. One of the reporters for a local newspaper. And my thoughts it is it is the media today. It is is having trouble. Keeping the financial of the global war apps reviewed television newspapers across the board. And they've got to be able to one up the on the I think most media takes with the government -- then. And their being fed that information often times to promote. The leader of readers. Of the prosecutors. Think that's exactly -- That is exactly right that certainly happened in the all the Enron litigation. And. Do you -- the media. That doesn't understand. They should at least be looking at whether or not the information they're given. -- Elation certainly view it what a whole lot more skepticism and reviewing it and. The citizens who serve on juries need to remember that there is supposed to be a presumption of. I think we've lost a whole -- of -- presumption of innocence for any criminal defendants and that is the -- and a big way. What I'm saying what the government just. Giving the media and -- the defense lawyers what the government wants to me we've got a big problem on every prosecution being completely one. -- that I've had lawyers obviously all the year tell me. -- and be careful doing these commercials. And what -- said them or buy and on the wrong that they Kagan thing me and they said. A single I arrests that -- you -- bills and FBI -- they won't make up something. Yeah if they want to. Then you if you wind. You lose in if you lose your lose more let's say what you mean the Pope went a little. Bit of break you financially. There breakthrough reputation. Even that they don't have anything all nude during the props huge. You see that as Colin as I'm told. It's far more common. Then people want to real. It's far more common than anybody want to recognize that it is it's got to come to a stop. And -- in the beginning of the show I've asserted fuels like word there. Proverbial. Frog in the borrowing part and -- we don't even see the bulge out. Happens. You have number one this is never would fuel to the general public number Stewart is. And people are just too busy buying groceries pay your bills get the kids to school and nothing is done about it. The warriors and I've talked to set a goal. Everything you -- is right but it's the best in the world to me that sounds like saying. You only have a little bit to capture. Telling it worse than. I mean we owe it to ourselves to make it considerably better than it and there's absolutely no reason why can't -- mean people can urged her. Congressmen and senators and right now to get after the fairness and order -- fact. And they can be inform themselves better voters and picture or state judges and state district attorneys are touting their conviction right at the expense of people's. Line. And parents in the first. -- we read one more thing though before Europe ago and towards the end of the book. You're right in the meantime misguided. Ignorant overzealous and visions narcissistic. Or dishonest. -- and former prosecutors. Some of -- destroyed. Innocent people. While they deliberately withheld evidence they knew contradicted their cases. Or making daily decisions. That affect all run alive in the -- -- future of this country. So mobile and in the White House some of them are further up in the Justice Department and -- yet. Goal alone too much. Bigger. Higher -- Private law firms where -- Wednesday. Get to exercise what they've learned. On the the citizens. Touched off is that correct. Current ordered by and -- from what it would be used to the future. -- -- -- I think it's going to produce a groundswell. For change and the system. I'm hoping it's going to produce a groundswell for enactment of the fairness and closure evident fact. I'm hoping it and I'm going to be speaking to the ninth circuit judicial conference among other places. About judges entering -- Brady compliance order immediately and prohibiting the production of summaries in most cases. I'm hoping that citizens will -- That they they're a lot more break in the days to protect themselves and others and that until the system to spare for everyone it's not safe for anyone. A whole bund -- our listeners understand the chances you take in but trying to educate -- house. And so what's occurring in this country I would submit this is one of the biggest threats to our liberty -- that very few of us know about it thank you for the book thank you for appearing with a loved a good show and a later date and continued this column such. Thank you Garland I'll be glad to -- Yeah good. I arrived back double bill Bill Gates suddenly ill moral five --

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