We're still thinking me talking about -- of -- senior level raw Eisenhower affects. -- it's not about the ego and a solo walk through controversy. This can come from New York a number of scientists have met up there and epics blizzard warnings in particular for outs. -- talked to representatives. Of America's wetland foundation of the leaders. In news when Leo was reading all of those. Two runs and I'm a believer in in the climate change in the sea of pink. -- or what scientists say it's coming from -- and we're in much. Well when you read about India and trying to. We've beat could stall. Our carbon emissions tomorrow. And it would make a correction tool bit didn't want screwing up into the world mr. And and didn't look at companies and countries like Germany. That because of poker shoot him or virtually. Easing out there and tired nuclear. Nuclear power energy. System -- you know by 20/20. In trying to go to alternative energy and all of a sudden they're fine tuned and don't rule economic engine. Distort things. And they think they're gonna have to go back to also view. So it's it's an easy issue. Lever -- open different we'll talk about drugs we'll talk about smoking but Jews in the old league approved way. We have an author who's written a couple of both Sunnis. Also. Syndicators. And dictated. Column. Virtually all movement. Publications. And he's written books -- he asks in that have been super Jews. And elements of four year old and good bit and smoking crusade. And the tyranny of public. Told that we have good depth and it's been. -- Edwards note and set down I think for the -- on the television interview with Brian Williams of NBC. -- was fascinated. -- going for small. -- knows what to think about this very young and why the couldn't have been more calls and couldn't have been more loose. He mentioned he doesn't have -- high school -- -- to -- intelligent. And -- during the show over if you moves to bring attention what was says. But when it was over as that okay good thing drink warm again until people like -- think. And I said -- that's one of Roberto and words. Again -- have to do more homework a couple of things. That Snowden said -- right after the season. Brian. Oh lead goal. -- coal removal experts on our show. That calls in question a couple of things he said you know this one moves things -- all -- of real interest in this. Need to get better and educated tuned to determine. What would think you traitor or paid for a I'd definitely do not think he's great -- I don't of these -- But I think it's complicated preemptive studies and agreed to. Region of courts and talked that hurts and we've got a couple for its Julien censure is. Cave search alone Julian welcome to shore appreciated that time. While your ball did you get deceive the interview in Tacoma where you would think. Admit it or other. You know -- network television and of course but these Boca. Various conferences by -- a satellite link and and the for the guardian and -- really don't is that is that applicable. Immediately by the -- -- tend to be going to. Eccentric people -- and and what was striking about news. Normality and it is. It's all appearances -- year people -- -- secretly sent -- the working for the Chinese are working for the Russians that we could you be a labor -- it. Comes across very much as someone who knew what do you think his judgment -- -- -- wrong if someone to. You know really threw away -- comfortable on a life. Because he thought it -- Important. And potentially dangerous to democracy. Architecture surveillance for the being instructed that the public. -- right now about a right to debate. Well it turned it slowed to 2 o'clock level and take our first Greg Julian stay with that we're gonna come right back. If -- just draw and it's worth thinking about. I think the first television interview room at roots -- And Russian prime and Williams. Did the show last night. And will bring up some things note and says and get your opinions -- a bill brigades seventy a moral 53 yeah. Well we're educating me and hopefully you want to save when it -- -- Snowden. You blues on television side. Brian Williams Brian Williams trouble to Russia and they have very long interview via or long on the year but about thing about it through -- or some birds and and to better and similar what I think so wouldn't concurred review and Sanchez it's -- Richard though. A -- and tell me where I'm thinking wrong when when I'm debating. Whether I consider this eight not number one and that word we use new Hughes law but it. When I considered nod -- police. Do not the trader. When I think about the pay hundreds ought to open. Is pulling Mundo slows and remembered. President Obama is supported review board. That has criticized. All of the domestic data collection. And then marched Obama recommended it and ball the moves that meta data collection analyst with the steps -- building and it. If you look at. That would seem like a good reason. Forward what he'd do Horry good I'll. -- -- who weren't thinking wrong. No I mean I. I'm inclined to agree. I think. You know you're hurt president ma career. That public discussion about the saying well -- welcome -- debate and I even had James clapper that record natural elegant recently sang you know. I realize now probably should have actually been transparent about. Economic pupil public. We think we need the authority again these are you know very large numbers are accurate then. They'd understand why we think that there. I'm I think that. When news heated. When you app for parents to public to demand change -- YouTube app is not clear exactly what she. A performance going to be that. Created communities and some dignity and changed. You know I think that suggests that correct -- -- that the public -- On who would not be sanguine about that. It appeared yet at work. And so -- -- -- think it it's it is not very hard position to be. On the one hand. It's as it was -- An awful are black yet states the same time I'll be preparing to archery and significant reform could not happen in the war. Those disclosures which now are admitting basically. Sparked a healthy in any necessary to date. On one thing. -- league perplexed as. You can on the question about the media politicians abandoned street room regular blitzes. Or as slow and why didn't just scoop from chuck Donaldson and telling your superiors about those. And then we interviewed you said he did and humbled to lose to the time. Or one or the media had never did seem to be intrusive and USA today June of last year. -- three men and literally read exactly what. For years these three whistle blowers have told every one that would listen. That day have spent decades in the opera and civilian as saying designing. And managing the bear -- system. The base. Has turned against Americans. They told their superior. They told federal investigators. They told a congressional oversight committee they even went to the news media. And in return. They were -- editors Bill Owens kicked out. Investigated -- crumbled. Forcing you have their careers and reputations. And even a lot of friendships it they've built up over the lifetime. And bring that this must be -- -- third period report from USA today. Plus the entire interview on the Internet. And these three gentlemen we'll get anywhere from 57 years old and -- Young people likes and Oden and apparently. Apparently -- that set the basis that the system. And tried to say you're using the wrong or why you think the media is not in person. Rated there's been acres and then in people who came -- View. Anything quite as dramatic is needed -- look like. A desperate weeping and the -- in straight have been present your. I'm saying. Are -- view is watch. You know journalists -- journalists love having their hand. -- secret document not just hearing someone say. Something happening back. Actually happening. That but the portrait themselves. Just. In greater Andrea. Affecting about the original document that. Sparked. Part. More excitement even land. Elements. Some -- talking about. Had been revealed -- question what would be help but you know in in the days which is -- at some of the documents. Feeling like you've got acts such as sending secret. Get people more excited -- in it and it -- in we had not been for me and. A couple -- that we would probably couldn't started then. Although we have been a lot easier to nine down. Obviously the black letter prepare. Showing you got it. One towards the rodents that. When Brian Williams said. There there are accusations that you're gonna get people go at them the military. Who spurred this on -- depending itself. And Snowden said quote. The government have never show in the single individual who's been formed in anyway buyers disclosures. And after the show -- and went to consider. Said that it's categorically not true and -- went on to say reduces hurt us with relations. And prudently conferees and diplomatic relations and send it sensitive negotiations. And tempers. Were unit and uterine cancer. That no individual. Has been -- August and number two. Yeah if it's your biggest concern about boats Oden did. You guys are pretty put the -- in what you do why would you. -- And load. Merkel will number in the first place if you didn't Warner applied. I mean -- instance. In that well I think you'd you'd ever want to find out when he got their foreign but I knew very different and are kind arm. We were originally. Talking about here wise. You terrorist group would get kind of agree information that would help them. Be better avoiding. That surveillance or in military information that might help. Any power to develop weapons -- you get into a war and what they're really not kind of arm. At all our armed they're talking about it. Well basically when the conduct our government is exposed other people around the world are outraged about it. That. Not to all of the per cent. Who. Exposed that you were doing things the rest of the world sounds outrageous. At. One pointed to him and let me pull it dumped. And -- troops told me bring you think that uses bridge too far. Snowden said that when he did go to his superiors. And the people who -- -- -- Didn't the majority and said do you get appointed him over would try and or bill this year but. Maybe we've gone too far. What you -- gore and say anything you say anything. They're gonna hurt you there they will destroy you and then when every -- three individually you just named. That that created basically this meta data system and belong to be. And that they were -- and took the drone. Try and say the same thing Snowden was here's her quote. The Leo. Journalist ask one of the gentleman. Will snow can be approached you -- it's. First torture them they had been rendered and tortured. And incarcerate. And then tried and incarcerated. Libya and execute it. It is it or or those two extreme they came from people were with the in the organization. And they submitted differently he would. Different. I'm they. It via -- -- and -- worked harder to understand that whatever. As a sport this official may be people who blow it ago again your organization. -- not. Do. Well on -- back. Japanese other -- for him. The FBR -- do not embarrassed the bureau whatever else and I think that's parent. Filtered down. An extent that. Nobody wants to say certain he's been doing I think two years well it is. Legally questionable at. -- you you might have been doing something wrong while. On the other. Anderson -- enabling unique -- -- it very seriously. The commitment to keeping secret a -- -- team. It's not there. Role and make a decision. Out. What what should be secret but not even pay interns in particular are part and I understand. -- that reaction to those people are. Bunning and. I'm not. -- You talk about it Oden said virtually the same things this -- mostly good people try and do the bright thing. And it's just going to pore over the would say it. And I nearly any organization. I think you buying back to indicate that they you know it's on it's it's like a lot of spare pants about now. Groups and especially hierarchical. Institution work I mean Richard that you could you could get. Basically decent people do that to electrocuted. Innocent person. That they were told an experiment they're wanted and indeed though Matt keep going pursue science on. People in back and setting will suppress their own. Some authentic automatic moral. Response. And birth to the institutions you get the credit situation where. Everyone it's sort of funny you about it everyone thinks is their child to keep quite about it. At at this point in time and we're -- run out of time. A global would you label. It's Snowden at that point whistle -- paid for to trader. It triggered are triggered -- word that that -- it in the Asia. And it actually disturbing here. Thrown around that actually why. Why -- people probably government and we know better. Picture I mean I like we demand miners are. I think certainly. It seems like somebody's intentions are good. No matter what I think about him. As a person he could be. -- Or he could be read -- I think people are to Pittsburgh. Hungry for attention. -- doesn't matter we have lightning at incredibly healthy public debate about an unprecedented. Being -- Architecture of surveillance. Around the world our government belt. The profound implications potentially for global freedom and democracy. And by starting. You don't agree. Whether we think is a good person or not. Julian. Thank you were trying to. Educate me hopefully some moments on and always pleasure being on the show you -- -- Governor Roy back we'll talk to a senior fellow with the in the food security team settler or. Are welcome back -- think about Brian Williams interview with the Edwards Snowden and Russell who's line. Went on for an hour of victory interviewed imprint through four -- very -- have been you on the unit itself. With the debate afterwards we usually when I'm gonna do this kind of show. Drawl reading at a cantonment. Wanna thank. And Joseph I just don't know I don't think his traitor but. And move these secret. What I came away which I thought he was very call very articulate. Did not come across all. Extremist. -- Even one point parties is his former in this you. Partners. Saying that the vast majority of them were trying everything they could. To do the right thing but it was the the power brokers at all -- -- going wrong. And built -- and do what he did. But but. After. The interview bra and held interviews with the number of experts in the legal side technical side news -- And I heard things that call in questions and the things that Snowden said so basically my -- -- somebody's who would you pick. It's I don't know still trying to get educated. -- that thought and we can Google news senior fellow with the national security team the Center for American Progress here and welcome sure appreciate very much. Glad to be here I think. It's. -- Such -- complex issue and the millions in the thought that you. Just outlined there are what I think most Americans feel about this or at least a lot of them do. It's clearly I think given the fact that we are now almost exactly. A year on from the first revelations of this material. What he has brought the attention of the American people has really touched her. And there is no doubt that. The material that he has exposed has that done our democracy. Could we have action in congress we have a much more knowledgeable. Populist about what our intelligence community's -- and there's no doubt that I think that coach. In the -- -- But then on the other side of the ledger we have an enormous number of questions in -- And my concerns really boil down to two big issues about. Yeah first stated he -- -- Reported up to one point sent in million documents from the NSA. If his intention was that he portrayed last night merely to export he over reached in the wrong doing. In his view you know say. I think decadent. Taking care about -- to doesn't it doesn't pieces of paper that he. -- commitment to expose the two -- three programs that -- -- -- issue. -- yes and yet Dinkins and we've we've seen when he first that the centerpiece of his first revelation was the order. From the fight to court the foreign intelligence surveillance court that authorized the bulk collection americans' phone records I was there and and that and that really has been. He overwhelming focus of wage. And that material was and was very -- that it simply was an order allowing Verizon to. So ordering that allowed the government to collect from Verizon all of americans' telephone metadata. And if that's where that and a few other specific pieces was where is. Documents ended I think he has a very strong case. To being a -- The wings factor -- that he has taken time. -- up to one point seven million documents the overwhelming majority of those materials not related to these programs but instead. About and it -- military intelligence. Support. And other activities and even some of those have come polite which really had absolutely no there. Are on americans' constitutional rights particularly. An episode about. Signals intelligence collection on foreign governments. For revelation has nearly designed to there's and and harm on our ability to conduct. Surveillance received and foreign policy and so that. It is is very troubling to me. Kurdish news -- in England -- quote break belligerent. Hanging out there every word -- church fully understand. Coming right back -- -- -- Are welcome -- -- thing good about the interview room left side room and BC Brian Williams and at its note. And a -- conclude with a senior fellow with the national security team Center for American Progress. -- in your room via process. Presuming -- thought number two -- -- certain things concern you about what -- -- Yeah my my first concern was but he did so many document majority of them networks not related to that programs that caused much controversy here in the states. My second concern is that. Upon taking these documents he -- he fled the country and not only the -- the United States but he went. Two countries that. Can only be described as autocratic governments that are probably. The epitome of violations. To have countries that violate the very principles that Snowden. Asserts that where was his intention. For this whole episode -- because China and Russia. And they also happen to be probably the United States its two largest adversaries in in the world right now. Now and I think it's -- and virtually said that about wrote for last night to end and then said. As he was trying to get itself America. I'm ready when they canceled his passport. Got stock in the brooch from the airport and is only alternative was brought. Well. IR IA I'm not -- that -- and I don't really think it passed the laugh test. First keynote he he was in Hong Kong. And he does he was trying to get to Cuba again another country. That can only be described as and autocratic system of government great adversary the United States and then on to Venezuela. Again another country it could only be described as an autocratic government to visit -- -- the United States. And it's it just doesn't strike you as possible saying that his only pathway. From. Hong Kong. Two. Venezuela was the mosque Allen has banned. -- and keep working with the. I'd eight I think that is today a doping questions and you know he's -- he wanted to claim that he made -- an interview yesterday it was that you received intelligence training. Not from the US government I think it's -- that very question is whether or not that was the only government that he's received intelligence training ground. You know it it it it does strike me is extremely. That an individual who went about this task with extreme force -- I'd take a lot that deal that many documents and that and the plan. A flight out of the United States. -- accidentally wind up in in in Hong Kong China and -- Russia. And yes the United States -- passport when he arrived in in and in Russia but there is. Nothing that would prevent -- Russians from allowing him to travel. To Cuba. Without a passport. Olympia as cute admittedly during question. To record from Abraham Lincoln no matter who's good and up to govern and -- the men without the other's consent. Number two. With the people are the rightful masters of both congress and the courts not too old the -- of the constitution. But overthrew the men. Hooper -- the constitution. All of its -- Uggla has put aside the -- point seven billion dollars documents which. I think he'd he'd casts doubt whether and that many regards. Let let's say. That is his purpose was to let us know that we have a government that is walking a very closely. And it's certainly seems to contradict broadly consider it. If he made mistakes and gathering too much information and hours with the -- It was it's still worth. What he did. So let us know what was happening when we did not know. Well I think. Specific episode. Specific instance. NSA collecting in ball. The telephone metadata on all Americans -- in any indication. It would Altman and criminal or intelligence activity. Is a grave violation of the rights as Americans. And we are clearly. A better stronger. Country so we're going -- and a year later the least were still debating that we've seen one chamber of the US congress already. Vote to change that law to prevent that from happening. And that. The currency is almost exclusively. Down to stones revelations and it's this story we're -- and there. Then I think clearly she would be a whistle blower who denigrate service to which country. And unfortunately we can't just leave that there because it's so much else has happened and that's why become so complex is that. Were and fortunately out of time we're gonna do be sure again love to have you back in -- you've you've given -- some very important so think about tradition. Well thanks for having me on and that is that it is a great issues that will continue now debating for for many months had not. I expect him again have a great day. -- and we should represented the -- percent up or lived terrorism. Whom did deity didn't say he doesn't -- Snowden he'd just back the number of things that he did. And didn't offer an opinion either way you'd like -- unsure. But can -- is. A member of the Center for American Progress as soon and I can be corrected juvenile. -- compendium problem. But I think that's a liberal organization. And he basically says he's lying. When he says he's not connected to Russia or Cuba or Venezuela. Or all three. Very interest and not unexpected. Double up.