Now we're talking about -- Teacher teachers and tenure in what happened in California with the judge and I think is interesting because. If a judge does something you agree with then he's he's just still very wise manner very wise woman. But he if the judge does something you disagree with then there activist judges Michael -- and joins us right now national policy director. At the Thomas Fordham institute good morning mr. Brinkmann. Thank you for taking the time I guess we should start with what happened in California and the judge in the ruling as it relates to tenure. Absolutely so this was the case. RL or. Several students horror. Essentially saying. Bet they were in the education -- visitor because for years and he works subject you are -- futures. Who were in the -- you know because the district couldn't get rid of -- the -- Actel organs especially out. She church and airlock where essentially. Teachers after I think in California it's only about a year apt. Will -- it is ten years but more or less jobs for life it couldn't be fired. Yeah and under the most egregious circumstances. That restricts what -- easily -- all. On the money just to get rid of one teacher who not search -- It would seem to me in teaching a year and a half is not enough time to evaluate who cannon who can't. Well and and that not just comments sent you know it. There's evidence that backed that up and teachers -- ironic that teachers unions are saying you have it. A lot of data out teachers are performing partners in isolation systems. Horror. Eden is that -- they're given English or. But at this and Ayman Al or other -- percent while it. Asian unit -- life after -- her. Stage actor sure. In I was saying earlier we came on as a -- to grow up. You know start working his dad's service station around twelve years old. When I first heard about his tenure the whole idea but it it is struck me is not an -- -- had a hard time believe and it because I think that he did. Just because you're there -- certain amount of time have a job for life from which you can -- not be fighters it is so extremely difficult. The -- that that you're there alive. And I'll start menu offers teachers. -- -- started with higher education and that's all our conversation about -- higher education today which is probably being used as well. By at least in higher education it -- many years in Albany after her. All the papers and chances. -- academic or as I've. Proven yourself to be somebody that. Look we don't want illusion so you know that you're so valuable to laws. As long as you wanna stay here you can. It and it is designed in higher education -- protect. Tired issue faculty from being fired all the popular researching our commercial optics. Literally why change it all education. Early just wait -- you to -- per hour. I've kind of a model for higher education and other steroids where. You don't really have to group academic excellence in it changing a little. By on certainly still out or. Act. Now I know I'm sorry I said. Well well now that there's an argument to be made it release of those in favor of tenure would say that we you know and it's a good recruiting tool because otherwise. People aren't gonna go and teaching they're going to -- sentinels. I disagree with I think that we're a stronger. -- is get relief. Motivated. People who want you achieved -- one Q. -- the -- themselves and move up the chain is currently -- lakers' aging art teacher. -- and you act that we get faster and straighter. The -- want you. Work with a -- like there's not a lot. -- for mobility because again union are all our sites that model where the only way you can eat it -- Or ability is the senior -- future but also like to make sure that -- -- air. -- -- -- -- -- First teachers like are. The youngest teachers are now. Alt a and EST your way one majority. Case -- Where there is an English teacher the year. Who received her award and we didn't geeks and. It it would seem like Danny counter intuitive given the technological advances made. That we -- daily in this country and throughout the world that and does not judge in any one group of people but generally speaking that. The the younger teachers and while maybe not as seasoned educators might be more aware of the new techniques if you. If you get on trying to asking -- Michael without offending anybody. But actually -- there are her. Certain things that our energy and that -- there's certain things that younger you are able. But what -- -- make clear that overall. The vast majority future artwork into a great job. Glasser and they won only it was a -- it. Or talking about ten years as small percentages you. Teachers who because they're great job -- life. We're at it for everybody else the futures are doing your job. Crew themselves I. It out but what we would never tolerate. McDonnell's. People who flip burgers. To get a job like we wouldn't tolerate that because we know we don't mind. It's people slacking off and you couldn't fired a that it terrible job ever figure or something. You know made that doesn't happen a line doesn't. It we almost never -- anybody age gap -- I don't know why you'd act -- or as important education. I got to thank you Michael appreciate your time. Michael -- national policy director at the Thomas Fordham institute.