I Tommy Tucker talking about teachers -- judge in California struck it down. And casinos the extremes historically of ten year. Before Massachusetts introduced it in 1986. Women were sometimes dismissed for getting married becoming pregnant. Wearing pants are being out too late evenings. As for June 28 2010 New York City closes it's a rubber rooms were approximately. 600 tenured teachers accused of incompetence and wrongdoing. Receive their full salaries is sadness bars Truman do nothings are basically they couldn't fire him on a minute classroom so they get. They put him in study hall guests -- those things releases and the problem students Debbie mote president of Louisiana association. And educators joins us right now of Phyllis and on tenure in Louisiana morning getting. Good thanks to taken the time it was -- even following the Stanley Cup Playoffs the NBA playoffs or the World Cup. Actually. -- empowering our Arab and good the above that's -- beat and I would vote to because I just don't have the time. But but that's not why you hear tell me about tenure in Louisiana how it works how it doesn't heard the students. Well first of to get a little -- -- distinction between what it's called change year and due process rights absolutely -- No I don't mind ahead. And here. Actually at that university to -- and it is using currency can -- -- -- ally. However K through twelve. January. -- -- came here is thought to be at the experts you know apple is not provide. Instead it merely right to due process. Procedure. It -- -- -- charges connected range. Incompetency. Two insubordination -- -- -- at saint. Band that teacher had a right to. Seek counsel. And could be represented before. What used to these school board. And since kidnapped and I birdied twelve -- 83 person panel. What -- representing the superintendent. Want it represented a principled and went directly representing the teacher. And that is the peace and legislation that we went to court. One of our members. And now the important apple. The actual procedure itself was -- little age act in my. What quote I was part fourth circuit court of appeal. Could be unconstitutional. And evil -- on the turnout at the record apple. I get a text here and some -- saying you're whirlwind that would she talking Monroe entitled to due process under the constitution. I might be as it relates to matters legal and governmental bull when it comes to. In criminal insanely liberal when it comes to. Louisiana and working I mean -- fired will states so is that went. Ten year and they K through twelve level is designed to do. And K12. Level it's simply a process by which teacher can't. Take charges that -- against him or her and give and excel. In Louisiana. -- stay teachers and an inordinate amount of money. Becoming teachers and getting degrees getting hired deeply. And any teacher says it's important thing in June 2000 dollars per year there packaged -- supplying them capture. Outside the ink that batted in the recent -- teacher have in that process right. But we want teachers that test that we can provide our students. We need to make sure that we do not -- in and signs. -- -- It takes a great deal of time not to become a teacher. And TK. Oh -- someone. Especially in the chart is. Either true or sufficient. -- dismissal and I think that's unfair to our children. So. When it comes to due process as opposed to tenured. Does the bottom of the bottom line is an almost the same way it's basically impossible to fire a teacher or you really have to mess up to get fired and hey you two inches being mediocre or below average teacher day are those grounds enough figure to get fired and make a change. I would definitely not I have actually and we teachers who have gone to. What they call and -- Hearings they're really due process hearings. And a teacher and I've seen several teenagers. Wired. Or before it came here hearings. These can you tell. But you mentioned in subordination ends and some other things -- but what about like if if the added that goes the bigger question of -- evaluated teacher. Sitting in the classroom I don't think there's a lot of good in my she send. Or let students record them without their knowledge because I don't know how. You get a fair performance on the principles sits in a much as the teacher teach because obviously they're on their best behavior that day the teacher on target non. And try to be at the top of their games so. How would you evaluate other than test scores of the teachers doing the job and and that brings up. Teach to the test. Well I think it probably wouldn't need to happen is they need to be constant media. Teachers need to do at our principles need to do multiple walker. They need to -- that it part that you evaluation. And there's -- all announced. Observation and then there's one that's our men and so I think principles really -- -- And actually deciding whether teachers are competent. They need to -- I shouldn't there constantly. Maybe you and are simply. Making sure that there look me in the classroom. Getting in the as -- -- and got less formal classroom. -- before over run out of time so is the process now teacher comes in on announced. Persons not doing too well it works within scissors -- to need to do. Comes in a second time and announced nothing's changed that document and in the third timing cut him loose. Well I think that profit system is really -- -- Didn't get court. And then at the observation now eagle two. It feature is being any active. What means that the teacher will be placed on an intensive assistant point. And that intensity and the planet developed -- teacher. And the -- together and that is sort of the recipe hopefully for improvement that you Debbie -- at a time and -- appreciate you coming on I really do.