And actually it's Don Don -- with you on this Friday I kind of getting back on track on this Friday the thirteenth and on the show producer -- ten and -- -- this thing go on about. You know why didn't news always seem to break on Fridays. Again week we had a special announcement by president Barack Obama which -- But it's a little bit behind the way back on track now with our number two with -- think tank let you decide to spend part of your day with us. Hopefully that traffic and weather situation out there for those of you listening in and you vehicles -- is getting little bit better than what was when I came. At any right the topic this hour we going to be thinking about. The Humane Society. Of the United States -- asks you pass when you hear that name. What comes to mind what do you think. For most people I think they think about an organization -- nonprofit. Of volunteers in people who do good things to protect animals. Make sure it and had abused name maybe put up some pet shelters were with adoptions. Basically -- animal welfare. Well you may find out that you have a different opinion of them after this program do you listen to it it's something that I've known for probably twenty plus years. I'm kind of tracking them from a sportsman's angle Bob what do. Threat. To them animals users an animal manages in conservation. And that they have been in over the years but the -- the main humane society it is gives off this image of this organization that those wonderful things well. Follow this improved and some evidence out there and this was the result of a lawsuit was filed and we'll get -- that -- let me introduce our guest who's gonna talk -- about that is he is the president of the US sportsman's alliance nick in his Donald nick thank you for taken some time this Friday's talk was about this issue. We've gone thank you. If you would -- always like to get people to a lot of audience Knoll where they're coming from tell me about the US sportsman's alliance who makes about what types of people belong in how are you funded and in what commission. Sure. The mission of the US sportsman's alliances and were the only ones in the country with its sole mission that is to protect. The opportunities spurred there's -- I'm trapped and -- in the United States. So that's involves any number of things from you know threats to actually taking there's opportunities away to infringements. It's just a long list of things that we do. On behalf of sportsman in the country. We are based in Columbus, Ohio and that a lot of people snow we're surprised you're not in Washington DC and another reason really is that the organization's sprung up were trapping issue that happened about 36 years ago in this state. And could literally a group of concerned sportsman got together and should we have to fight this because we're worried about you know what the precedent may be going forward particularly -- I think he knows. Long story short they've won that issue and started getting phone calls from across the country from folks saying you know hey we have a lot of issues to -- do that so. And it was determined rather quickly that there is -- need for an organization like ours and we're sitting here at 36 years later. Very proud of what we've done for on behalf to sportsmen and looking forward to many many more great years ahead. Are you broken down into state chapters -- is it pretty much in national organization. We're national organization aren't headquarters is in Columbus, Ohio and we also. Are growing in operations Sacramento California is so we have eastern and western. Office if you will. Mecca -- with regard to the Humane Society of the United States. I've gotten a lot of information from your organization over the years about this group. I have pretty much on my shows that hunting and fishing programs which I do television Radio One needs to do newspaper in quite a bit more magazine and I do and present time. But I've always tried to expose this organization for what it really is and seemed like I'd be preaching to the -- -- -- because people who -- into this on his mission. Fisherman trappers. Ranchers. Circus people they kind of know the deal -- -- but I think the average American citizen. Think this is probably one of the biggest cons has been played on the American population in history in this nation what this organization truly is what they truly represent. In what they do with all this money that comes in and it's not to blame people because I think is a nation. By bottom. Our own nature we are very very giving and caring people especially when it comes to animals says very very very emotional -- to pests and wanna do good and and people you know that can't stand to see him being abused. But for this organization to take advantage of that and try to build -- brand and his reputation of being that when it totally the opposite. Is simply wrong so when I saw this case the settlement that came. And in my hat goes off to Feld entertainment operates the ringling Brothers circus was sticking with this because a lot of people it's them fight -- suspend all this money. In on this because it's it's a totally baseless case but -- so many instances they've gotten away with that to a -- could. Pick it up from then tell us about the Humane Society of the United States. Sure and you know you early on you mentioned about. You know those of us in this industry. You know the outdoors industry or entertainer agricultural we'd have been familiar with where they each issue that -- all of that. The real struggle has been getting the word out to mainstream America if you will. Because these are the folks but unfortunately they see the you know the commercials that target the heart strings on television and they feel like that they're giving to their local animal shelter. And when in fact they're giving to the national organization that is. Very extreme and its views about animals they actually do very little for animals in shelters in fact. Common group called humane watched -- which you can find easily on the Internet that he. Unity state that -- US spends less than 1% of their total budget on you know helping animals shelters. -- what they do it really focus on is unity in our world in particular they would love to see a day where there is no hunting. They would love to see -- day when we -- no longer. You know feeding ourselves with animals to respond agricultural practices. And despite you know that they have kind of been caught out on that and try to backtrack from it. Now we know clearly what -- about what you're trying to do and they are. Absolutely the enemy of sportsmen. You know agricultural has -- people who just have a -- what I would say just a normal understanding of you know how we feed ourselves in this country with meat being a big part of that. Do you have the last figures on what there aren't there and then net value is what what they have in them. Their coffers. I hesitate to quote numbers but I did see something published recently. I believe was through humane watch it's Arafat misquoted vapid they. Have about 200 million dollars or so in investment assets. You know -- annual operating budget is -- annual but it is more than you know hundred million dollars. This is huge and they are we'll tip my cap to them in this regard there outstanding at raising money. And of course you discussed how that happens a lot of times and you know that's the unfortunate part about it is I'm just not sure. People clearly understand what they're getting too. Yeah and there's proof out there and thankfully in this country we have. Exposure or public use and can see what goes on -- reports of 501 C three non profits and it clearly shows that less than 1% was actually used. Awful what they claim they spend their money on when in fact it goes into advertising to raise more money. And that the leaders of these organizations -- -- pretty well to -- Yeah they do and you know it's a pay what they do spend money now because we're we're dealing with the right now one example of that is we're fighting. To protect bear -- in Maine. And it was -- to protect bear running with the HS US's trying to do is eliminate. Pretty much off form and all. Normal forms are cutting bears are taking bears and state of Maine. And you know this is a state that has to prided deepest black bear -- tradition in the country. And all of the money. With the exception just a few percent. And that is being pumped into that have played this ballot issue comes directly from major issue that's that's not the locals raising money. Communists for major issue that's trying to stop there -- in Maine for all intents and purposes so. You know they're spending money on trying to protect wolves -- -- way overpopulated and decimating wobbly populations. Despite all the clear signs that says that. Communist expended money on attorneys and lawsuits and things like this so. You know for those to continue to support that organization's thinking that there helping. You know our pets dogs and cats in that's for the money. Really go well they've agreed to pay their portion of the fifteen point 75 million dollar lawsuit. -- and racketeering charge a case that was brought against them by Feld entertainment the operators of the ringling Brothers circus. When Ronald -- on Tom because the president president's announcement nick but I have will cog in from. The center for arms consumer freedom coming on humane watch dot com perfect him. And number gave him to give us more details on that lawsuit but thank you so much and thanks for the good work you guys do -- sportsman. Thank you for the opportunity take care all right that's -- and Gizmodo the president of the US sportsman's alliance -- -- the news will be back in now we will talk to. Mamet knows all about this lawsuit will -- and also wasn't just -- humane society the United States it was many other organizations involved in that to you may be surprised to hear some of the names back right after the news. This is the think tank on WW. And welcome back into the thanked -- glad to have you with us on a Friday the thirteenth with a full moon kind of an unusual situation he superstitious -- the -- Caribbean not. Lucky unlucky. Now -- people -- it both ways anyway glad to have you with this we're talking about the Humane Society of the United States -- more specifically about it. A payment that they have made a settlement of their portion of the fifteen point 75 million dollar settlement that brings to an end a racketeering case. That they've that has been brought against them by Feld entertainment the operator of the ringling Brothers circus it's a partial recovery. Of attorneys' fees from a lawsuit filed against film all fourteen years ago this on. That alleged mistreatment of federally protected Asian element elephants in this is. Typical of the kind of endeavors in the kind of tactic that each as -- has pulled off over the I don't know how long they've been around. I've been tracking him down for about twenty year prison -- -- know the deal on him but unfortunately a lot of people. I give their hard earned money is donations because. They are known for their very emotional appeals and television commercials and outpouring in now on the web to try to get money for people who are concerned about animal welfare women. Factors we just heard about less than 1% according to their tax records actually goes. Four shelters or. Treatment of animals. Where more of their money is spent in defense. Funding in legal fees in advertisements. Joining us to talk more about this issue is will cog and he's a senior research analyst for the Center for Consumer Freedom will thank you for being with us today appreciate are currently on. Well as I told -- -- -- -- Otto who just joined us from the sportsmen alliance like let people know about the organizations I -- represents of them come in no way you coming from tells about the Center for Consumer Freedom. Well we found that about forty years ago and separate appropriate that the plot is that. In adults who have to. The right to make their own choices about what they want eat drink. And that is a lot of act -- groups out there. Starting with with a new Mayor Bloomberg for mayor of New York. Who doesn't believe that adults the right to buy large soda when Megawati. And there groups like the rights activists that Peta or is that the US to. Want to take to it the way for consumers who want he'd need Ortiz who wore ice cream or explored it milk. And so you have a -- these groups out there that are trying to. -- think government or use scare tactics in the media to try to make choices for people and so -- this too. Sort of either at the other side of the story or -- contact. And say hey these guys about they pretend to be they're not looking at -- use the consumer actually looking up for their own private jet. I found it was there practicing of the survey that you conducted of the study of 11100. Donors to HS US in and what they reveal to you tell us about the study -- results. Sure well you know we we wait for want to project he mean watchdog weren't we surveyed the public we said. You know based on its name the humane society that they the other positive -- the group what do you think it died. And what people thought it was essentially a national umbrella group world local pet shelters -- in the local humane society that have a very similar name silly that well one daughters think. It is similar misconception and and the risk. We pulpit donors and we -- will -- it what he's taken money's going towards and the debt maturity I think. Three quarters of them that. We think it helped local shelters or otherwise help shelter pets and so. Yet again these people under the all. The perception of Egypt US what is really we've still driven by agents who have known advertising he's either at the bull dogs and cats so people think that what the funding. And that's not going on. Well I'll Wanamaker perfectly clear to listeners that when we talk about humane society United States it is not intact. An umbrella group made up both local state or parish county organizations. As some organizations do some great work. -- and I have tried to convince them over the years in discussions with -- -- I think they would be better off dropping the name humane society doesn't get tied into this national is humane society United States group. Which is not gonna do him any favors because some of these groups are about putting up pet adoptions and and operating on no kill shelters and in really throwing a lot of good for animals but -- in the to the Humane Society of the United States a lot of people just under the misconception of what they're all about. -- will if you stay with -- we need to take a break Q we come back want to get into the this case -- particular case. That was filed against ringling Brothers circus and then there countersuit which has finally been settled and was actually determined to be. A violation of the Rico states that -- here in the United States will be right back listening to the think tank on WW. Welcome back into the Friday -- to think tank down to -- with you we have on the line with us so well cog in the wheel -- senior research analyst with the Center for Consumer Freedom we're talking about the Humane Society of the United States specifically. But they'll while other organizations to which will mention that. What is happened is they have finally settled -- their portion of -- lawsuit in my hat certainly Eagles off to -- incorporated the operator of the ringling Brothers. Circus for sticking in -- listening for fourteen years not not going under and just kind of paying them off which many. Companies and corporations have done in the past which is pretty common tactic of the Humane Society of the United States. Well if you would give us the specifics of this lawsuit which was actually found to be in violation of the Rico. Exactly what as you mentioned god in the top story about fourteen years ago land and and rights activists sued. Feld entertainment which owns the ringling Brothers circus and they said well circuit -- pilings in the federal law that protects. Endangered Asian elephant. So that Kate took about a decade to resolve and what came out during decades. Which later involved a he's an affiliate what became an affiliate of HS US to -- -- that he left. Was that the key witness that they relied upon what -- former. Bought helper for on the circuit and this guy was actually being paid overtly by animal rights activists and lawyers. Is that this thought came out later on during. This first litigation that guys being paid attention -- the table he's paid about 200000 dollars. And on top of that the court found that he was not a credible witness. Is he lied in court and he gave testimony that that just says that by. So at the end of the day. The dust throughout the case is that while based on all of this -- find that there's no standing to -- the the activists even proceed with the case. Now some of the other organizations involved in this were born free US today the animal protection institute. Fund for Animals animal welfare institute and the American society for prevention of cruelty to animals as PCA. And they were all found -- be liable for their parts in this too. Well what happened was. After the this this that he witnessed payment scheme was unveiled. By Feld entertainment lawyers then felt countersued them under when he met in the Rico act the racketeering. The federal racketeering law. That's a lot that you know historically people abuse neglect of the mafia. Though that today a case where felt kind of turned the table and that while these guys paid a witness and that witness lied in court. Though in the date -- others conspiracy against them. But you're right I mean there's there are but two groups involved in the Fund for Animals was the group that. Merged with the humane society I've states so that's why eight -- US was named as a defendant in the in the candidacy via racketeering bribery lawsuit. Will we have thing. Instant text message board that comes into the studio I'm getting text him on both ends of the spectrum some people I guess that just not realizing they've been given their money in good faith and the kind of take it very hard when the organization at this supporting is being criticized but rightly so. But here's a perfect example here's one the Texan said they sent. They meaning it HS US sent me please and tell me stories how they stop this and help that. Wrote to them for help I do TN on -- over 125. Cats in an area when they're now being trapped dumped and even points. HS US says contact my local they -- sorry couldn't -- Typical of the type of thing that they do they claim that they do all these wonderful things but in reality. There -- actually all about themselves perpetuating their own existence in paying their attorneys some big big legal fees and suing corporations. And you know very thankfully failed the stood its ground for fourteen years it took them but finally exposed. What -- know exactly and -- all these groups collect we settled for about 25 million dollars which is how much it costs fell to defended. Does this litigation and also to pursue the other litigation against them. So it that the very that the proposition but he it sent the message that well maybe next on the pick up a little guy that they can try to get away with. Any advice for people who. Bill by our own nature would very giving -- very concerned about taking proper care of animals and just abhor any kind of -- you see animals -- and kept in filthy conditions. And being -- so in the case of dog fighting is anyway people can go on line and find out more about those organizations before they give their hard earned money to. Well sure there are a couple. Charity watchdogs out there that that kinda keep an eye on how -- spend money the best one is called purity watch. And unfortunately it. Daddy's day subscription service but they do the best job of analyzing the finance that these groups so for example with the humane the US. Security watch give them make the money upgrade. And security like finds that Egypt let stand up to at least 45% of its budget on overhead costs. So that's why you're seeing all these commercials on TV it would eight -- last. -- on the cats and dogs and -- at ninety dollars a month you see that commercial all the time -- he gets up in the middle because there's been excellent money that they raise funds simply raising more money. You know the other side -- this will is not only is the public being ripped off and being duped into giving them money for something that's not gonna happen but what does is actually work counter productively against. Those local organizations that actually worked so hard it's great that -- -- times to try to get money. To do spaying and neutering and finding homes for -- this really hurts them. Exactly -- particulates in the time and their money on helping animal providing direct care for animals. They have a group like it has to let that -- -- to pretend that it direct cares its main goal when that's not it. And so -- -- -- him -- earlier you talked to some local humane excited about changing the name. Some groups that you've done that and other states like Wyoming Michigan. In part that's related to -- just -- the political agenda the the animal rights agenda but also -- that displays the confusion that people. I have between local humane societies and -- means that the US you know for example -- -- which means that it does very good work taking care for. Together all the animals and area. -- eight get to last is essentially. Because the the name it does similar is it he's meant to take credit for that orbit. Come across as some kind of national group that. That is really helping those efforts went. In reality the local group may not get a dime. Yeah they wanna take got credit for all the good but the you know then none of the money you know to get to get that accomplished the -- Also what did see a copy of that -- -- and I guess that's running nationwide now fifteen million reasons not to give the humane society the United States. Exactly yeah we we put that in USA today so. The national audience got that. -- -- Will thanks so much for coming on enough thanks all the good work you guys do over there at the sent retreat back. Welcome Oregon's senior research analyst senate for consumer freedom if you -- attacks and it's 8787. Please. Text responsibly I'll read some of those and if you wanna call in a few minutes. And discuss that right after this break army at 2601870. Toll free 866. 8890870. Have you donated to age as US will you continue on. We you're not now that you know a lot more information about will be right back after. I'd done a much time left but -- get some of these texted Jolson in to me at -- 7870 is on says -- take issue with the way you inappropriately said that we think the organization. Does good thing. That the only -- think the organization does good things are you saying they do not do good things. When all depends on you definition of good things if not taken in 200 million dollars in spending less than one -- man on hands on. Pet shelters is a good thing well then maybe it's true is another one well. -- run -- -- time anywhere will continue this may be another day coming up next hour we're gonna talk about our governor's appearance. On television on the -- dynasty program Wednesday evening did you see it if you did. Wanna hear what you thought about it will be back to do that this is the Friday edition as a think tank -- you -- on the big 870. WW well FM it's 1053 and worldwide on the web at WWL. Dot.