WWL>Topics>>6-18-14 2pm Dr. Stacy Drury & Dr. Katherine Theall

6-18-14 2pm Dr. Stacy Drury & Dr. Katherine Theall

Jun 18, 2014|

Angela talks with Dr. Stacy Drury, Tulane University Psychiatrist & Dr. Katherine Theall, Social Epidemiologist at the School of Public Health and Tropical Medicine

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Automatically Generated Transcript (may not be 100% accurate)

Well I appreciate you all staying with -- are joining us as the case may be because I think you're going to be fascinated. This next hour. We know that children born into homes filled with violence and chaos suffer psychologically. But what -- that kind of environment affected babies physiologically. Biologically. What is exposure to violence and stress. Actually changed a baby's DNA. It's a question our guest or not only asking but studying in ground breaking research at Tulane University. Psychiatrist and geneticist doctor Stacy Drury. Has received almost two and a half million dollars from the National Institutes of Health to conduct the were search. She is joined by doctor Katherine feel all a social epidemiologist. At the Tulane school of public health. It is a pioneering study that can help us learn not only about the depths of the effects of violence. But just as importantly. What we can do to protect ourselves. Welcome to both -- you have waited. So many days for this because I read this and I went oh my gosh. This is huge. This issues which we live in the town sadly that has too much violence and certainly the trauma of Katrina. Didn't help. And so when I read that you all are saying in essence. DNA down I mean the cellular. Level of child can change. Being exposed to this it was mine blowing to me so take me back if you would. What got you going on this project. Great yes this is doctor T -- we started studies is actually a follow up study of children. It's a very small samples so -- I just must throw that out there. It's it was we were looking at disparities and a number of health outcomes across the board among children in New Orleans. We wanted to see what influences within the school within that family and within the community. He what are the roles of these factors that might lead to mental health outcomes physical health outcomes behavioral health outcomes as well as his geologic out content you can. Neighborhoods stressed for example really get under the skin to produce that disparities we see. As as adults we have. And enormous amount of health disparities across outcomes cancer cardiovascular disease you name it. And our hypothesis is that this starts early. And it sets children on a trajectory that mountain is harder to stop -- office. And so how did you all get together. Added that say you we have been working together for a long time honest and I think when it that important parents about this is really. Connecting the dots between different factor as soon as that child psychiatrist and a geneticist. And it's important for me to reach out to people here are really working at a different model. Sued to translate science back TU public health and pilot's seat. He'd get information that it's the communities and he also identify factors that I never considered. To -- that Stanley factors and direct exposure to come on more important that until I started working with cat. They didn't understand the impact to that community factors could. And says to really in order ten most effectively. Gather. Deanna and information and that I think can be used to influence public palace -- and pain of health disparities and really improved health of our children. And I needed to find a partner Aaron that had that extra piece of information. So to take as to what your study. If it is looking. It is it the exposure to let's say. Babies born into homes where there's domestic violence. Babies born in two. A neighborhood where there are shootings. Is that kind of thing. We we do we actually the study will talk about today is one of many we've measured pretty much everything under the sun -- as far as. You know had it -- -- neighborhood you know what what can be impacting these children -- in this particular study we were focused on children and these were children ages four to. To fifteen years old. We had a I don't predominantly African American -- 91%. And we were looking at. Three levels of exposure to violence and also family instability as we called so we looked at whether the child had witnessed violence within the home. Whether they had an incarcerated family member as sort of marker of community violence. And destruction family environment and then whether that whether -- was a suicide in the family. And we looked at this -- militantly as well as with and you know each domain of risk percent. We have other markers of violence that will be looking out and subsequent analyses. You know within the home as well as in the communities so. The cumulative impact of this violence exposure and other Thomas with and that's how it's why office is. And I think one of the things we -- commenced and interested at that with dismissed recent study that came out on Monday. Was that it kind of filled that gap between -- previous -- and that of others say previously we established that community level factors says this measure. And that I aid kit -- full credit to convict came and the and says John began epidemiology around. On a measure of community disorder so this is how much broken glasses in your neighborhood how many. Broken buildings and your neighborhood how much alcohol outlets are around you how much. Kind of K -- in your neighborhood around your house. And and in not against any wesun at that actually influenced the child's DNA to the greater there was community asked. And more and that there was on the child -- named. And then we did another study where reluctant to -- to facts on the top of him in this case it was expansion to prenatal tobacco smoking. -- -- famous thinking in the town and a mom reported smoking during pregnancy. -- direct influence. I'm on the child asset tracked onto the scene and DNA change that we see. Until the next question was what about this family assistance -- Center as a child psychiatrist that family is an incredible. Contacts -- support. But I'll suffer strokes. And that could stress with in the Stanley system and have the same biological impact. And we found was that these factors that influenced -- and mistrust of I'll -- having an impact and that child and. Okay when we're talking DNA. We're gonna take a break but I think this is what we all need to learn. And I know the -- -- teaches in a simple way said that this one can grasp it. Wanted to take a break and come back and I want to know about the Chalmers. -- analytics and thought process is important thing so stay with this I'm Angela London -- -- well. And we -- back with doctor Stacy Drury and doctor Katherine feel all two. I'm calling you giants at Tulane who are looking at just a fascinating subject. That's. This community in particular needs to address and of course it is the effects of violence we know so much of it but there's so much we don't know and that's with these two women are studying. We left off as you were saying. That stress violence etc. in the neighborhoods in their homes. Is affecting DNA so if you would really explain what that. Say what we are looking -- is me. Component and DNA -- -- teal and Aaron and the easiest way to think about its human hair as it's kinda this year lanes cap. At the and and your DNA. And say DNA in my mind is basically kind of instruction book for your body. -- -- -- your body what to deal. And this shoe lace cap at the and -- DNA. As everybody gets better get a little bit shorter. Every year and it's a new Armonk Kynan impact and aging to panic at short. And once it gets -- short kind of lets you DNA -- And kind and when that she -- capped wears out. And your serious trades. And it's really hard to get it through holes right and that's basically what's happening with the DNA and then Tim blank. Way we have been looking at is that in addition to just regular aging. Strasser said can accelerate our speed up. That -- that this. She played -- shrinks. Hinted at things that are associated with shortening it. Had and in the Intel world -- these negative health. -- patents that obesity is associated with shorter -- cardiovascular disease as it was shorter telomeres. And the question came. Would we see that same -- they'll have not been found. In -- because our present and usually ethnic kids they're really -- Marion Wright and bounced back from things. And we would think that they have a lot of flexibility in talent these biological systems and would be really expected -- such a powerful and changed. -- -- -- -- And what we're finding is that we actually are seeing that change. Even when kids -- now. And do you test without saying that waive it we're looking at it and is that and highlights instantaneous and we went into it as. Simple and it's fun as possible snow and we have basically kind of acute at best zero Q tip that we put an infinite amount and it kind of like a -- press. And not collect cells from the inside your -- And and then San athlete can and at the DNA out. And then we use a very. The precise. Asked say basically it's a measure that links each individual person -- on -- and they weakened. 22. And it's -- in its -- it's really easy it's basically like but short -- -- Hampered -- -- get -- -- in -- it's taken on something which you run. And our babies in the Steny love -- it's hard to get it away from and they had a lot of unsealing on the cotton spot. And then the moms like me the extra one to pick them up. So the what you if you would just in the break you were reading some of the aspects of -- if you would repeat that should -- So the sample itself small as it was was. He exposed a great deal of violence have 48% of the children had an incarcerated family member. Whereas nationally our -- about 4% so that's pretty striking in terms of other forms of violence 30% had witnessed community violence 45%. Witnessed a murder. Which is striking these on these kids to experience Katrina has 22% had seen -- dead body we did not get specific in terms of who -- is on a dead body who realized. 23% experienced physical violence. A witness physical assault sorry. A C 70% witnessed violence -- TV news or gossip 20% witness fighting in the home. 30% -- witnessed domestic violence. And it's 75%. Experienced corporal punishment are minor physical assaults by a family member parent. Almost a 197%. Extreme psychological aggression and so shouting yelling -- some sort of psychological aggression toward the child by an adult. And I think one of the things when we were looking at just the rate of exposure. Is the is where kids are created from lots of different places say knows the as a cancer -- and 87 different census tracts in the greater New Orleans area. And they were kids -- from schools they weren't -- at and that's a psychiatrist at these aren't kids with mental health problems. That word genocide and that's what we were looking and these -- just kids from family is and -- no one we think about the exposure. It's not. That a select script. It is a widespread exposure and in terms of rates it's incredibly high compared to you other areas of the country. On some. And certain in this -- -- particularly was related to Katrina. That that is not -- at the answer I think that our children our expense at a much higher rate of these factors. Then and many other places in the country. And then -- been tested each same children for the I'm saying tell -- protection to Mars. -- let me -- cavaliers -- -- -- at that that's the word to remember anybody we'll go to sleep and I think -- -- -- -- how long is Mike Taylor became. And then you know that's the evidence you have that they had been affected yes. Mean that's when and that areas of evidence that we had. And we have a lot of other pieces of information and we ask that I had really high rates of obesity. In this same pen grip of town and we had elevated blood pressure and the same group of -- and we have other measure is strengths and then Atlanta so we have a measure stress Harmon comp court as -- says that's your fighter plane Paramount. And and we have measures. There heartbreak and how fast their heart rate goes up and down. So we're really trying to capture and cellular level. And then the eastern and physiological. Level and then there and report. -- -- -- -- out as part in the study again. Eleanor. Dangerous. Degree. Becoming violent themselves I think we all understand that connection this is what they've been exposed to -- the -- in the home -- their neighborhood. And that reaction what -- is eye opening to me keeps saying that is that it gets down to such a deeper level. -- down to the cell that will impact them the rest of their lives. So if these same children. A grow up and move to let's say a safer area. They will still have had the results of this can they overcome it. To anyone and that concerns is that this is an really kind of scar. And our hope is that this is something that -- that can be altered I recovered. Soon it telomeres are really dynamic they changed a lot games lots of things that influence and and where. Really at the very beginning and understanding and -- actors in real people. Filling out a little bit about it when we look at specifics house. On that are really getting a much better handle on the things that influence your -- -- And says there's a couple studies that have looked at and a -- something like exercise. I'm actually will increase the end time and that link and -- telomeres patella on -- And there is Glen area there is constantly. And and dealt with prostate cancer and that looked -- -- support. And they're adults and gotten more essential support during their cancer treatment actually had their telomeres blinked and 21 of the things is to identify the biggest actors that are influencing Tina Manning. Figure out which plan as actors we can really in France and change. And then target interventions while measuring the same content that can we really. Changed the direction. These kids' health outcomes as they get older. Senator you know and -- glass half full person and that may you know kids they have a certain amount of resilience what we need to do is accentuated. As much as possible. And potentially build and things that -- -- trees there and senseless -- And see if we can fix the biological problems as we fix some of the behavior problems you're talking about so traumatized kids. And respond to aggression match Mars strongly and that's because they're kind of an Ohio there. And getting them cannot be Hiller made change the behavior that ideally obtained the underlying reality as far. Well that that is optimistic it really is that there is hope that the damage isn't forever never and so when you do this and you talk to the mother do you say. You know. The kilometer here is shortening. In -- well what can I do about it what can she do about it. So. Went into being with about this is that right now a tired and measure my team when you're laying. And it's predictive value is not a 100%. That I wouldn't I would not encourage anyone take a look at their calendars measured. I'm pilot instead encourage you'd see you back and -- three vaccines and relaxation. Exercise diet. Condit and for our moms his kids expense to this kind of violent. And one of the things is he opened -- lines of communication and a dedicated -- your children about what their feeling. And if I feeling stressed at a round draft there are having problems with behavior and their acting out CU find mental health professional. And really figure out if this it is related to these actors say it could be that there paddy is just on high alert all the time. And if we work with the family means and the children and -- is that high Miller and to better understand what their experience my husband had been sent. And potentially we can really prevent the wrong time. But when you think about the number of news stories worth -- you know the yellow ribbon is around the crime scene and kids. Standing there day after day perhaps some just feel will this is were growing up or some parents may feel this is the way it's always there. Not understanding. The impact. Yeah and I I would I would very much the same event just because it's the way that it's -- and and my kids at parity seen a lot of dead body is. Doesn't mean that seeing another dead body is a good idea. And that sometimes we think what happens is that kids -- -- expensed. That they look honey outside. Like they're not bothered by it and their inside and it's not dealing with an inside is I'm Kyle Larry and is stressed and say that disconnect is probably -- damaging. Wind and the kids are actually acting now. Stay with the second one -- breaks for the newsroom but we will be back talking about this incredible study I'm Angela under the that you -- How lucky are we to have doctor Stacy during -- doctor Katherine feel both from Tulane. Who have done one incredible study already. Determining what the effects of violence are on children. What would you say five to fifteen something like that. Now they've got the money and they're going to do a second study that much younger from from baby babies. And you will be able to apply the same science to it you're looking for 500 babies. We have -- -- -- -- energy it. And you have how many and as a yesterday we at a 152. Moms and patent and are created and during pregnancy. And hundred babies have been alive and more about nine months and you at five years study. And that is designed TU -- or create mountains during pregnancies at anytime during pregnancy. And any back and hammer him on content that and home. The fish parents it repeated bench and and that they rather they are and we -- gathering information about -- stats over the course of highlights and her ex measured to you violence. And different kinds of stress during pregnancy and before she became pregnant. And then then we get to -- my favorite -- the study which in and claim that baby is at Fineman tenets of -- days. That we have none of its kind in their eightieth apartments at age. And and we -- less than an hour and we can have them. Claiming it's there and then and we ask amounts to sort of look at their child mutually short period time. Which if anyone has ever been a mom is that he and -- and they can not only is be 100% -- sentences and -- -- that happen. And then we had a play again and maybe. And let me see you at for months as we really measure. And the eighties action stops and we have been Sheila and that lovely patents that England did she line and we measured at their heart rate. And we measure and -- their stress response. And speaking -- that and we passed a measure bears team and -- what we're hoping to see. Is that -- over the course -- first year of life. And eighties to about this really really special relationship with their parents that we Kyle at announcement. And we never back to that care giving relationship with him moms and hats and down however I'm not ads and -- -- studying them have payment will be our next project mr. Katz. And parents an incredible source if protection for kids. And -- -- evidence that there I asked him in addition to news -- is it safe environment they can magically protect kids and be -- -- -- Against stress and say what we're hoping -- -- is that -- this really special relationship to balance. The impact. I need prenatal strengths. Is in -- kind of went to. I that development and that really really important relationship with them. So if they mother to being pat has had had grew up in a stressful environment violent -- It becomes pregnant and also has perhaps even more stress or violence within that period. You're saying that the bonding or attachment time the bubble -- could perhaps protect the child from what she has already gone through. Yes that's that name compact SS and and there are some evidence that if we strength and that the parent child relationship. Weekend changed that the eightieth stress response to Ferrer in high risk samples and a little bit older can't we've seen that. That what we -- looking at and and really had the first people who look at it. It's as this actual relationship to ballast on and on its sound and naturally over the fresh -- life. I pay a better kind of sticker album rap. On that can protect kids from preening on sort of life -- yes so there's a lot of data and that. Life course stressed news and kind of violence exposure and moms but before she became pregnant and specifically during pregnancy. In plans have outcomes in children they can -- -- how big the babies and an important for the smaller babies how early they weren't -- pregnancy. And even health outcomes later. And -- -- if we can find a way to measure this powerful relationship and potentially. Energize that our strength and that then even kids that are X as Steve mister masters during pregnancy. Ideally will be protected for the rest of their. That the bonding or the attachment. I think we just assume that that happens but it doesn't always happen or may be in the beginning and then. Issues come up. And -- I mean there's huge variations and am attachments and use. What we now is that it's the family is that have more our instability. Her -- her X that is to trauma and stress tends to be a little bit harder at today's ballot a secure attachment relations. And that there aren't parenting responses are -- and behaviors that are important to help with. And content there's it's that relationship rates in panic as the planes have to Albania and not the same now. Plan and if anybody has ever seen and it went eighty. Fund -- like to have -- -- and fund babies need a lot of attention and and it's really that it's between them responsiveness and the payment and and 80s10 cents in the eighties means. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Unfortunately there's not one subpoena that. And that's why are looking for 500 yes yes let's talk about how you gonna get the 500 you have a phone number of people can call. So fear in any stage of pregnancy in any stage of pregnancy and say that steady and -- is I've four. 656. Six Fuller 49. We actually have an email paths you can email -- as a last. -- -- -- -- And -- G. Have. And AB. At gmail.com. That is. It bang glad that angle lab -- -- -- lab's third and its stance and that behavior and -- developmental genetics and. It make it's you make it sound so easy back -- Gmail.com stay with -- everybody we're not finished I'm Angela on that it anyway. Once again we were thought doctor Stacy during and doctor Katherine -- all from Tulane University. And they are doing an incredible five year study. That's gonna make a difference it really is I've learned a lot already. In the work you've already done now was there a difference between boys and girls in their reactions to violence. -- and this is an -- rather unexpected findings and and what we saw was. All of that both boys and girls Wear impacted by the stand me in stability. Girls seemed team be more -- than boys says that that impact. And that -- mailing that shortening of the DNA. Was really much stronger and Allison and in -- if and had their parent that we got a hint and that we need to really look at and and our kids. With that potentially. Young -- assembly is under the age of ten. Seem to get a little bit more protection from maternal factors then anybody else. Say you girls ever seemed to be more impacted by the negative events and the family. And potentially younger boy is our had a little bit extra protection for a month. From that is interesting I would have reversed it. Yes and we would have you know. And this again didn't take into consideration fathers that's another whole -- But fathers each conception but that -- -- hoping to get and partners -- just asked -- that's right and partner. Yes and I think and that the new study went and things it's not tests that biological parent that kids find support in many many many places for -- grandmother Harris. Dow had its. You know the special and it's bad parents and on holidays people. -- can be that same sort of sensitive responsive caregiver to the -- wrap doesn't just have to be from mom thinking about raping and at the end mosaic Butler -- On the potentially and community level factor looking and we can if we strengthen communities apart. We can tell the bubble wrap up two different planes. I wanna go back to the original. Part of this program which is what you all are discovering is that the violence and chaos in the home and community. Is impacting. Children some DNA. Correct tracked so it's impacting their DNA with these tell emerged saying that wrong -- -- Tonight I'll I'll think of it. But in -- the shortening of it and that impacts. All of their health issues that may be diabetes obesity heart to. And you're discovering that this is a marker for. But violent so now you're going to do a larger study with a 500 babies and all you pregnant ladies out there gonna give them a call. You gonna call 65664496566449. Or email implement. -- lab DA NG LAB. At Gmail. And register because what you're gonna learn from that is just impact younger. Now the question is. After the five years you find out all of this. What are we gonna do with it. It and this has been our struggle with with many studies in this is not not alone in this study is is how -- we translate this to be on the academic journal. They're really getting it back to the target population back to providers caregivers. To policy makers you know who have. Who aren't necessarily in health and I think that's the key here to really. Reaching beyond what we traditionally think that is risk factors for health -- to look at social determine. How out of areas where we. Live work and play our whole lives -- even armed. You know generations ago how does that impact your health today and how to -- you know really. Put health from the agenda you know in education and housing and neighborhood. -- and I think really had to redo this and an effective way is what we're still trying to figure out. We have a interdisciplinary. Center at Tulane where. We hope to do more practice taking not only -- -- work but other studies from researchers across the university we have about twenty faculty involved. From across forced schools. And we're hoping to build. A center of great research on health disparities disparities also translation of that research back to happen to be effective policy and change. And so we have dubbed that center at another acronym because they love -- acronyms. It's called surge and it's the stress and environment research collaborative and health disparities. And sentiment been very supportive and helping to build this for me you know we really hope to see this grow in that. -- it sounds exciting. And probably no better time as all of us I think of learned so much frankly because of the new changes in health care how much were going to be more responsible for ourselves so the more information we have. The better. But I think it is just. What you wanna call pioneering landmark whatever what you're doing to identify at such a young change. What we are just all becoming too numb to is so important. Because we need to change it into what you're saying. The bubble wrap can be there. It's accumulated fifty or sixty to get a little bubble graphic. According Obama every name bubble -- I am pretty comfortable at that and being at their -- that and and again saying cap and this and is that it's that he's that is so important is -- -- -- community to this meets its. -- -- -- into our moms and really has our partners and that's project. We -- and semis and generous and grateful that there letting them narrow their children and their history is. And and went and that's important and that the new center is how we engage community are incredibly diverse and vibrant and obviously very resilient community and this recent and how to ask -- question. This I think it's incredibly important to have our minds and our community stake -- comments how. What they think business importance. And that together with their recent years. And community leaders and our moms we're going to be him spyware advocates that the other -- I thank you doctor Stacy jury and doctor Catherine Steele we will be following you as well. Good luck with it. It was I think we'll be right back.