Well we all know the facts to guys opened fire on each other during an argument on Bergen street early Sunday morning. -- at least one of them opens fire on innocent people walking by nine people shot to seriously. The two shooters still on the run. After listening to authorities in many areas of criminal justice and everyday concerned citizens. The conversation breaks down to main thing. Is the leadership in the city handling the shortage of police correctly. Is -- doing what can -- the low morale that pervades the you know PG. If that is not what should we be doing. The second and equally loud discussion concerns what everyone is acknowledging. As a prime cause of crime. Young people not being raised correctly. Parents abandoning their responsibilities. And not being held accountable. These two discussions are not meant to simplify a very complex problem in the sedate and other cities. But it's too good starting point on a conversation about what needs to be done in the short run and the long run. I have said this many times. Crime is complex and heartbreaking. And a constant battle. But one of the dark to guest for the next two hours has not given up -- They are grassroots anti crime activist. Captain black of Brothers against crime. And how many honors the man I have called the street warrior for the last 25 years. And to our listeners you two were living missed and I'm sure you have strong thoughts on what needs to be done. So please join us in this conversation. At 260187. I want to thank the people who have been hanging on during Garland show. We will get to you I hope to continue but I wanna start with our two guests -- so appreciative of them being here sound -- captain black. -- a black I've only met you on the phone. So I'm delighted which came into the studio for the next two hours Al -- I've known for a very long time. I first want to know since both the view arm. So entrenched in this. Your initial thoughts. The first time we heard shooting on verb and nine people shot. Certain. A person who say greetings fellow hostages. Sondra severed part of biko's. Too often that's how we're made to feel my initial reaction came when a friend forwarded me. Clip -- The mayor speaking on it and I was struck in the subsequent hours. Such a broad cross section of people had somebody who was there when so this particular incident. Has a lot of uniting elements -- a lot of people high income went from nowhere and come. White black Republican Democrat had somebody who was on -- street the night that there. So one word. One phrase very broad based. Response. Now. Good afternoon. Missing audience of -- sources and Ann Curry's arm. Our deuce on. How much of -- much more than I have to happen in Euro. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- Put me where a -- of action be coach Bobo. You rule. -- arm whatever you wanna call it is too long with over the receptacle with about a girl -- and to mount caramel. And what we need to understand that everybody. Can be a victim pivotal up in the morning film won't be a victim of Marie -- -- the victim and this is happening in some animals. Pro patrol areas in the city and -- and anything from the police presented during the -- But I'm saying is is going to be more than just or police of those -- to everybody rumble. Very very true I'm originally before this event happened this weekend. I was going to have now and -- black on discussing sort of the social issue of crime. And we were going to talk about that I want to talk about that first actually and then go in to your thoughts on. What can be done. From the leadership of the police and the city knowing that we all know the figures that were 400 -- short. That yes the figures are down and that's a positive 30% fewer murders positive I've never heard how many shootings there. About hundred murders are down and on an immoral grateful for the but sort of what is that saying coupled with what we all now is a growing discontent within the police department. And what we can do about that. So it's again we're gonna we're going to be here for a couple of hours -- everyone to stay with us but let's start with. The core of what has happened not this weekend but over a long period of time. And it is a young man killing young man. And how do we save them and how do we help them get a life that is a murder that is shooting that is in violence. -- of all it it didn't just happen overnight you know in his our -- I want the public good -- Of them -- sources who were calling. Here and in what -- opinions which -- got -- working its quote if we we got by default after an abusive twin if I'm of the well. Morality. When downs. Spirituality. Honestly. A lot of things. There apparel through an out there. And some you know parents would root root root teasing me children but he wouldn't tease him by example my my problem -- who's my father and he was murdered vote -- secure the Columbia and all go with it was. There was 1520 people from within -- -- son and what is in the nobody did anything he is one of between C she'll leave the beavers didn't human being shot in broad do that a hundred people and and whether it's -- nothing. That's that's not acceptable so what went -- saying is that we are. Looking is my iPhone is now -- my responsibility. But when something happens to. Them notes -- you'll friendly that's when things now which is something I can tell you how many. Calls I -- about. Bearing in people everybody is there is a decent burial but you -- thousand harvest. Activity. In -- temporary and permanent and have been a dog and beaten up on but I'm going to pitcher. When our children. Tell Los Angeles -- what to do and would they go on doing winning over -- some grown to a pitcher. Where did we get up on track on that again this is not. Only New Orleans witnesses. Have went but it it parents some parents lost control. And my assessment always has. When you do not have personal responsibility when you do not have parental responsibility. It doesn't matter what all the rest of -- -- because we're playing catchup. And we have to be very honest too often when we have discussed a slight risk people with the win. History racism income inequality the zodiac Daffy Duck and anything else and come -- with instead of saying. The individual for whatever reasons to -- the two people were talking about on the night for whatever reasons. Chose not justice unity jobs but it has been reported repeatedly. Aimed into a crowd of innocent people who had nothing to do with their dispute. And shut them isn't that rage. That's one that's a nice ware reporting yeah raids. I would say callous indifference cruelty -- barbarism -- archery from me you know a whole lot of adjectives come to mind we. Have to stop making excuses and again almost saw them I know the history and I know. The divide very world between the haves and the have nots. But at the height of Jim Crowe win a lot of those if -- -- amendment assures aboard that hasn't been established but it. Just as a backdrop to where most of our. Dollar crumbles come from. When we really were not even. American citizens by the rule of law and custom. You did not seen this level of violence on mysteries in this very is disturbing to think that after the Civil Rights Act after the voting rights act and FY I folks after the election of the first black president. The best system almost can come up with. It is -- go out and murder people we we need to update -- a lot less. I won't say compassionate but a lot less prone to enable this type of behavior was -- world is because. As schools is because also. So -- in Panama in the head and all of these elements player role but it we cannot get people to govern themselves and by default they have to be don't -- for people and that means. The criminal justice supposed to. This is just that simple notables -- going court. -- -- juror or jury well you know because I didn't deal dispersant good hand let's not punish him for the people in Asia. I'm not against not punish him but I think what I wanna fear is that due to punish him and and when I was on board. Now all of them on equal doses of -- -- so was Sherman -- volunteered in juvenile court. I just they -- know you can locker we have this thing you can hear you so plug this thing you intimate evenings help when you knock on worry. I'm saying is that -- mean that kids. They got it back with every child is not afforded. A parent or responsible under -- all the time. Well they know better mission -- -- don't know about it because they haven't had anybody reverend they have on the ground on the great grandfather. -- children that don't have an abundant element wrong to drug used in different than what you he'd take -- I'm -- have been down -- -- Predicting get a gun and I'm really you know whatever it deaths that. Or respect in SO. A -- that's how they communicate that's their strength and that's their personality is the gun. It doesn't go underground is is is the due respect that's what if fear is intimidation but that's what they did they go about where we would go to world famous canal street. Right now. One of the hot spots up talked about for years 11100 book which has come to media attention. Over the past few months. And in front of me in the -- Of the young men and I can give you definite statistics book. They represent the percentage armed. And many of them. Obviously. Our view them not old enough to have firearms legally or because of their status is -- we should not firearms. This is a reality. So wherever my brother house is trying to -- -- values -- may not be present. Is one approach and another approach is going to have to be far more proactive policing than we've seen and I know that's -- open. Touchy subject -- Nine innocent people. That's right now it's touchy subject but it's an important says we have to take a break we're gonna talk about both of those things as we come back I'm Angela under the to do well. Well we are talking about what everybody is talking about that is the latest incident on Bourbon Street nine people shot two very seriously. Locals and tourists alike two men having an argument pulling out gun shooting at each other and then ultimately one of them we conceived on the video it's one of them. Totally shooting at the -- just completely. Madness. The best -- We are joined by captain black who was with American Brothers against crime and Al -- with victims and citizens against crime both. Activist in every good sense of the word trying to stop this craziness. On every level we've been talking about. That the conversation thus far in the last 24 hours is breaking down to two things. One is the social issue that is creating crime that feeds into crime. We're gonna continue that conversation because it. I think they're still people who were very uncomfortable talking about it we got to put it on the table the other part is. Because we have such a drastic shortage of officers right now we're down 400. Out there have been those who believe. That we need to look at the leadership and say are they doing everything they can do given the circumstances -- have looked kind of pick it up right there because that is a big deal. Nolan wants to say the cops are doing a bad job they work under extraordinary circumstances. There aren't enough of them. But are they doing everything they can do. Under the circumstances I would say yes and -- circumstances booked for the record. My cellphone broke oh we support the new Rome's police department 1050%. Anybody who would like to have a job where everybody just a look over your shoulder and Monday Morning Quarterback you up to and including now the federal government. Well you know we're you can go sign up on line. So with that served. And I'm just speaking for myself moment I am. Deeply concerned. With the management stone currently emanating from the some demonstration garden police department deeply concerned. About the corrosive impact this -- -- PD now has will be very unfortunate. Role of staffing every other agency put itself. You know if you won't see how good enormous police also -- some people's signals Jefferson parishes where a lot of work now. And the officer police secondary employment. Has been in yet another. Wedge in retaining good experienced offices -- -- gonna talk about. Reforming the police department so that people stay and that also recruits want to come here. I was strongly recommend that we have got to change the superintendent we have got to abolish. Or radically restructure the officer police secondary employment the fraternal order of police. Because many police also opt out. Of officer police secretary informant. You have a lower number of police also working off duty details and that may have played a role perhaps some -- In what we saw happen on -- street because usually -- street has a lot of please also some work in the tools for businesses and of course. With our staffing levels of those working. Generally for the public. And I just don't see in the crime plagued city like -- how you can support. Policies which are literally driving your policemen over the border as fast they can find an agency to hire. I'm not gonna speak for -- chief surpassed but it. The reality is we got that consent decree because we were messing up -- so the consent decree comes -- on. I always thought that it was dictated the office -- your employment was this is what you gonna do how it's going to be done. Everybody is not going to be happy with that it was just in Garland show and listening to Jason Williams the first time I heard him say as he's looking at a perhaps it isn't dictated quite. As firmly is that there may be some wiggle room. Well actually those missile -- reverend -- administration this was of their prescription. Now you know the federal government and ironically the prosecutor who made their recommendation and called off doing so just on the details souls in the order of corruption he himself. Had to step down because of his own. Corrupt activities will say one of the word. -- Whether you feel. You know PDs detail system needed to be changed or where -- -- feel that it was all right. What we find now is -- grievously understaffed police department. We find. More shootings and we have ever heard it. And we're not finding a whole lot of unity thing between various factions of the community and their police department. You know if we're gonna solve this problem is going to be solved of course in the homes in the schools in the places of worship and not feel culturally. Was concerned citizens. Uniting behind the police department and trying to forge forward because to me before being shot in this happening in circles where are often has not happened. So we can't even we don't have convenient excuse anymore saying that well it just happens and certain part of town. With those people because in this environment the body count has become integrated and it could be anybody. At any time literally anywhere we need to unite to address this. We're gonna take another break for news that only come back we're gonna talk about are really which are saying captain black is perhaps a change with future. So we're gonna talk about that right after this stay with us everyone I'm Angela WL and all of our caller stay with this as well. But we're talking about what happened over the weekend number in street we're really talking about what needs to happen going forward. And we've been joined by captain black who was with the American Brothers against crime and albums who's with victims and citizens against crime. Given their thoughts and let me tell you these women who have. I spent an inordinate amount of time in their lives trying to help the situation. So so their thoughts are important. Likewise our next guest doctor George capital which was a former officer. In a criminologist with the department of sociology. At Loyola and a dot cap which thank you so much for joining us. I'll give me your thoughts on on what you think is going on. Well. -- say I'm sure like everyone else it's completely outrageous. Makes notions. You know I think it's two. You know -- -- it from what I've been able to read in press accounts. Is that these two young man has some kind of ongoing argument beast column. Day. Started shooting over in the of course lots. Innocent people -- god. But I think asserted that that is really the crux of what we're talking about is it you know he can. Beat up next door neighbor but when you start swinging -- the entire neighborhood problem. It it's wrong from the get go don't misunderstand me but to take this further step in just. What ever was going through that man's mind and just plowing into just shooting at random. Is is the ultimate lawlessness it's the ultimate lack of control. And how does somebody get to that point. Well. You know I think a couple of things one is dead. If stale or out of control enough to begin with that they would usual weapons even -- -- individual goal. Don't fight or dispute. That they already have that. Lack of control but internally in terms of -- Behavior as well as had now. The community. Would affect dental care to community takes. Secondly is that we knows that win shootings store. Whether it's this kind issue today or any others a number of things. People doing -- shooting. That's all are thinking about now they developed tunnel vision so they don't see what else is around them. And and current point we're. That's -- focusing on in Japan has changed portions of the the lack of control so the fact that other -- Bystanders. Or people over in history. Were there are. -- don't matter. And is not even something from shirt -- what happens to people range -- mines -- behavior when they're involved and current situation. -- -- just not. Able to eat and it's not thinking thought process -- just. I happen that way. Let me ask -- we were talking prior to joining us. With Allen -- to black about. Using the resource as we have we have a police department that doesn't have enough officers. I know that the cheapest -- percent. There were three officers within seconds of it I mean you can have one in every block that. My question one is did they see anything could they run after these guys if they were just moments away. It was a is that realistic to think. To your thoughts on because I know you venture studied well. What are we gonna do we're 400 police officer short and it's gonna be like that for a while. Well to think. You know what that that the police who were close with blockers show. Of the incidents. You know what they could've gone I don't know -- police investigation would do. Determined man -- I mean typically in that situation in the officer's first responsibility. Is to attack and two injured. And so I would suspect that. Just you know initially that's where they're attention. Now -- Carol says something relevant to us now. -- -- -- numbers are just one -- to a definitive. Bomb has been an up and opponents could have done. And police have rules in the approves too soon to think about life. They're gentlemen they're attuned than I'm used them -- and -- wounds on the shooting. He had no morals national values he had no rules unit did do that there Sonoma have been so. They didn't have any coping skills -- resolutions. And thing that's why we have this problem so one thing at the police. Him that time too because it didn't follow him being shot and really couldn't -- about it and because evident in the had been with him also. Right it would pronouncing them to start shooting even if they could see. The -- Because of crowds. And you know and and I agree. That. You know what what bogeys. Is that. An incident like this which crops up. Unexpectedly. And the most unlikely. Situation. Is not some things that a police presence would be able to deter. It's like -- earlier. You know it may well be even his closest to police were the shooters to -- was seen them they didn't know that they didn't think about it. They were Jewish so engrossed and overwhelmed. Bought a combination of a lack of control and the lack of values. To Wear what I was saying earlier about the heightened emotional state the tunnel vision. Even if they saw you know they I would guess. -- need to know the police -- -- And if there was -- and they would have done those guys on the way and talk about would have done anything to do it week. They would have done earning earning those people to me and and homes we've. Hostages because it could snowball into worth it to wish. And that always brings me -- -- to my my basic premise and on over. In your field starting. You focus on. Things in a person's past. Lack of certain mechanisms book for me I'm on my approach is little more -- We've all identify that we're dealing with. What most people conservative social someone who has no concern about. Anyone else and consequently if we have tens of thousands of person -- in our jurisdiction. Can we. Particularly those in elected office. Tell the public well despite having. A preponderance of personal favorites is okay if we have a rapidly diminishing police department which will not even. Attempts to rehire. Retired policeman who are back -- too would like to come back on and worn out attempt to do things that will allow. Also is already on duty to state to me it just seems unconscionable and I say let -- a police report. Well I mean I agree the -- it's you know I think the given the hiring in in recruitment issues. You know PD is experiencing. I've -- confidence to those -- the kinds. Of discussions. Going on now what the details horror of war prevents. Them from doing that -- don't know. But -- which say that it would. Never be okayed this city to the public well you know it's okay that we -- Higher that the you know PD can't hire up to which -- side authorized strength. You know it's. I remember clearly when the mayor came out and said we have budgeted for a 150 new officers. There's no way they're gonna get 150 new officers this year. There's no way that all of the people who signed in and they got 39 or 32 whatever -- It's going to be a very slow process and we're losing them as quickly as we're gaining them. Faster and and that is the issue. I think it's exactly what -- neglecting what do we have to do as eight. -- To the leadership. What are they have to do to keep the ones that we have. And to encourage the ones to come back if they want to. And new people to come and we got to take into the break everyone stay with us we'll be right back I'm Angela under the anyway. Well we are back talking with. Captain black and Al Mims and doctor George -- which from Loyola criminologist. About about what's going on we were short of talking about let's sort of refocus a little bit on. -- need to the police department. We don't have enough will there ever be enough but are -- using the police. The best way we can. Given the limitations we have. Things that. We could do brother. Chris vote you know you've got to have to public input. To people in -- and I think that people are doing and some great things and under the circumstances. When we could do better there -- camps here and we could -- On think of me doing about body in the sixth district. I think we have one -- -- and opponents diploma we were the Joba. And they are about alike when do -- thing but most of the big guys but we were together I can -- -- in time India and I. You know what Robert Jenkins is calling and I'd like to go to him Robert has been. A local attorney everybody knows that has been very forthright when it comes to issues of parenting. And Robert thank you for calling in. They could have been Maryland -- And we talked about it every time it probably value -- arrested. Has the -- on the bet there except of record. And so as we talked about it via a bin. The final of the comic book editor that. Have been -- out to play in this horrible epidemic that we. But you know there have been other shootings mass shootings on Bourbon Street it didn't stop these two guys I'm not saying there shouldn't be tough tough tough there should. These guys need to do they need to pay the piper. Some people are just not they don't care they're not looking at OG that was a bad thing to do they're just doing and that brought on -- Gordon's Jenkins. The problem is you know. But -- -- book on the putting -- -- feature the beginning. -- that the problem might edit the thing about. Basically only in the media -- it'll be out there. But as we said earlier we have the -- -- gateway crime that was there respite from the top again and I'm I'm a formal. They are so that they are. History of violence and expensive record. And that's what -- I agree Richard whose brother millions of rummaging consumer we have had Vick and you know put -- right in -- uploaded deserves a second chance. But none this this and Ono Bono and. You know I guess the question that everybody who might be listening thinking let's pretend we don't know let's pretend that these two guys did have a long rap sheet. Why. Hound as long. As we keep it in -- amount. -- And fortunately -- earlier. -- -- -- -- -- And figure out that congress and then eventually in the spotlight. We're. In critical condition that they are here. It back up and -- get proper but the problem the or. And we've got to. People -- Out -- -- you know where -- and work. But. Rest of your parents and arbitrage is that have been in trouble not true. That the additions George -- which let me say yeah right I agree with everything every one. Shed. But I think in addition to get back to question. -- or someone else raised is. What do we do now. What do we do in the into forum even though events like this or in the scope. City life. Rarer and other kinds of violence there -- great concern. Expand mortgage instruments. But I think -- or change that all of our available. Beyond. Just a you know a police presence or random patrol random patrol. Just. Deter. We've known now for forty years. The issue be problems. With the police issue. That are available. What -- do act in the target and there are number. Problem solving and problem oriented policing strategies. Some of the training for you know PD I've done and other currency trading besides me. That. Focuses their attention and so it's not so much. Random patrol for help many people you have police officers because has -- -- -- -- have one every block scorer pre. Apple block that's not possible. But what. The police -- -- they're Q wild day working. Matters greet deal. And so you can -- -- changed it can be gone. To not only horror by. To reduce. Other kinds of crimes and opportunities for crimes. In any neighborhood -- church a quarter. That. Reduces the chances for -- people's. Offenders do to come here in the first place. Because offenders or general spill command and also looking for opportunities. And body. Focusing. -- you can reduce the attractiveness. For is. Offenders to calm in the first place. -- here which -- saying on that you know there there are crimes of opportunity if you eliminate that. How do you eliminate crimes of range and that's just really ever -- Saying that -- equities. Where people are now two and one -- stop this kind of activity. Abbott. That the outlook many of these five. -- Let -- out there and think about their it's about earning the -- got totally on her. Guys I wish we could that we have to take another break I want everyone to stay with us who can't. And I promise she tore our callers will come to you will be back we're gonna do another whole hour on this so stay with that I'm -- under the -- well. Well I hope you'll stay with this another whole hour discussing what went on Sunday and your thoughts on what needs to be done. To make a police force better and to make our community -- stay with.