WWL>Topics>>7-2-14 12:10pm Garland: on Hobby Lobby

7-2-14 12:10pm Garland: on Hobby Lobby

Jul 2, 2014|

Garland talks about the Supreme Court's decision about Hobby Lobby with Jonathan Merritt of the Religion News Service, Reaegan Carter of Planned Parenthood, and Dr. Damon Cudhy of Louisiana Right To Life.

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Automatically Generated Transcript (may not be 100% accurate)

Welcome back -- were playing good about it through court ruling earlier this week. And rulings. That requiring family owned corporations. To pay for. You're -- -- insurance coverage. For contraception. Under the affordable -- Violated federal law protecting. Religious freedom and their -- Could not be done. The major company. And dips mentioned in the is his hobby while -- and -- actually. Two companies but how big lobby torturers -- and one that's getting most of them popped -- and and -- -- roses branded a compliment to -- early you cut and dried ruling and understandable. But what I've started trying to get details with the show. A reading the questions about 41 it is. Ran in the quotient from the Christians in the Christian groups. That have questioned regarding. And one of them were looking in the albums you would -- to this point on on the -- -- mirror. Patent called for Reuters senior columnist religious news service. Author of Jesus is better than you imagine all of -- welcome to -- appreciated call. How much are. Do you tell me of his quote I think from -- run. Here it says you can call your business Chris. When -- bring reports ring court in the in -- for a Christian values. When you're placing the ball caller for cheap wind -- I think mainly talking about China. Their history of abortions. I think it's over the last forty years. 330. Million abortions. For decades that it forced abortion in and says side. -- -- aside. And even involuntary. Sterilization. That quote correct. It is that some article word and the week magazine called stop calling hobby lobby your Christian business. It really -- two questions the first is whether or not Christians should ever alert to its net. Christian and -- sort of one question and then the other question is once somebody reached on the course and -- what we are I think one thing it would require it. And that and -- if you look at hobby lobby -- lobbyists purchasing and millions of dollars of goods from China chartered the twentieth worst. Our country in the world. Per child labor. They have nightmarish. Workplace conditions 70000. People -- -- there. I in the workplace that result. Unsafe conditions there a country that at a rate. Our history or their one child all the -- abortion over thirty are out and abortion are ordinary day over 330 million. And in 1970 and -- the question is. It is a company like Bobby Bobby -- where Christian -- and we cannot spend our money. In a white -- -- Christian about. -- -- the question whether or not they're purchasing decision all -- like that Christian music playing hole. Very interest -- back to your first question should accompanied. A -- five themselves as they quote rich in company. Well I guess that all depends on -- you bring a title in that situation or that I agree that it is using that power I think in part because it is. Politically expedient. Our conservative American evangelical Christian evangelical Protestants. And and you adapt your style or why would you start using that term I think because it serves served their political goals -- that an expression. Didn't even make any program. I think that that the the title actually makes cents an -- that -- censored then because. Evangelical Christians claim that the Bible is that made it that their space and if you actually look at the Bible. The the term Christian. It's never not one time not once in the entire new testament ever applied super individual and organization. Are our government it's only applied to individual person. And so I think it is for four though politically expedient or evangelical person in particular. It's -- they ought to Oman and it's not actually are saying. Or they'll take a break cured if you will come right back if you don't -- and its. We're at the -- -- about the ruling -- room court. They -- Monday of this week that requiring family owned corporations. And they they call it closely held -- Company were fifty -- fewer people more actual harmful owners of the company. But it says that requiring the family owned corporations pay you for an churns covenant coverage for contraception. Under Obama -- violated federal law protecting religious freedom. What do you think Gibbons skull questions comments to Sid 0187. Told re. And they were in the country 80866. -- and zero -- seven regards rob them with we call it the thing to. Overview of Supreme Court truth ruled that a pure. Well we own corporation. You don't have to pay the insurance coverage. For contraception. Under Obama care impacted -- federal law again religious freedom. Are against his Jonathan Merrill briefing cold for Reuters senior columnist. Religious news service. All the route Jesus is better than you imagine it was quoted. And one of the ago article as saying. You can caller bill whose Christian would argue and -- reimport. And then set aside Christian values. When -- placing the ball order report cheat would -- and which translates into doing business with China. Who's done hundreds of millions of abortions. -- for a while Cleveland supports abortions. In voluntary sterilization. Is org that is. You can't do business -- -- a country like that you claim to be. A Russian company. Joseph that the one of the Euro and responses. That -- its sole. Promote another Christian columnists who said. Businesses in a plea for evil exists is not the same is directly supporting -- eagle. In fact it may even BO sports for good morning. Well I would say at first the ball it's built upon rilya. Epic and -- that says -- lot. To do wrong to do right. I think that they're really core ethic it's an epic that builds upon the idea that the -- and justifies the means. And I think we have to ask a question whether or not I mean. Really our ethical I think in the case. China for example. I don't thanks simply turning a blind guy in shrug our shoulders to the way to China and Vietnam actually helping any more. You know people that well their level of poverty has gone out yet -- many -- the other thing and our country are built Atmel for example. 19% about of the world female population by in China but over the deeper than the -- email to a come from China because of the condition that that went like. That the number that not getting better. It -- about the same or getting worse. And so I think we have to and I think if you are Christian. Deeper meaning. You're not John the end been justified the mean and the Christian Europe but look but I mean. And the -- and I think that that doing business with China we win particularly eager making -- You are business in China before -- spend your money you know waited then compared to workers and argued. It's problematic if you're an individual person individual and not making claims that there are people that -- You you know top that was made in China well the first thing they have. I'm not making -- -- Been Dominic completely and sister I recognize the fact that. You have to sort of negotiate these patent and orders that duke. -- in the modern marketplace but they lobby making wind. I think when we look at their actual practice did a great question as to whether or not they're actually being written in the spring only -- and when they've been. Politically expedient. Company's vice president chief legal officer. Of said that it's. Those factories we do business with in China. Can't control what their governments do so it's okay. Yeah I I think that's problematic that you even have a bigger question. Okay -- -- the government and what the government do with the money that Ron Rivera factory what the factory and now. I think you have to ask the question. Whether or not those workers are being treated in a way that it job humanity in a way that we -- human dignity which Christians believe them. The minimum wage for example is abysmally low. The -- -- and and mainland China that pay a higher minimum wage Shanghai. Check back pay about nine dollar and 77 and you -- per day. At the minimum wage so they're doing it in the past the provinces in China. Chances are you people are being kept in poverty and I think the question. Is -- to our supply chain. Functions and -- net at a weight that were doing that and in placing orders are product. Pretty calm on the shall report saying react to -- and then I think we have to be public and it it went in in order to make it quite. Com what are what I've found in dressing. They did the hobby lobby representative. Didn't say much for the public record but what the they did say during. The hearing. There were four listed contraceptives. Had violated our beloved religious beliefs. Because they might possibly prevail in -- largely from them planning and woman's uterus and then they says it. Even if they weren't taking the drugs themselves. They said they -- felt morally culpable. For paying for the employees to take them. In the same thing your talking about -- morally culpable. For what's. Yeah I mean here's the thing it's not hobby -- factories that are committing these crimes. It's factory that hobby lobby and make good that are. One step removed. In the contraceptive K for example there also one that. Revenues in the questionnaire and again it that you pay money provide for something. Are you responsible if someone uses that I am saying. And an unethical way people -- -- market if you a year or your money in -- and Arianna Welker. They argue morally culpable. For the way it used to it you've made available and I think that are really in question well I. I'm pro life and consider ourselves strongly pro life and so I'm actually. Quite sympathetic to the case they were making about -- -- -- out the morning that speech act yet per. I wouldn't say there -- some compelling. That many if not all of poster -- don't actually called abortion and any Q written language -- -- -- be using bank. These are things we believe. The bank called abortion so what's interesting here -- obvious thing we cannot invest our money. To paper something that may or not called abortion. But we will send our money into any economic system that we absolutely know forces women have abortions. And I think that they can -- that. 01 of things are -- that I was surprised. No matter at this information. Hobby lobby reportedly has for a one kid play in -- -- employees. That hasn't investments words themselves. Invests in companies that make the abortion Brooks. Yeah that's exactly right that that was that report out there and not others on -- which. Last slinging -- and I think. Another very interesting question where they said. Hear hear the company it and that cannot remember the exact figure -- somewhere around forty year seventy million dollar year. There -- thing tens of millions of dollars. Through -- mutual fund they're providing in their retirement and the people. -- few organizations. That actually produce the contraceptive. They -- are immoral. And that the question was during this is even better retirement plan. Consistently. What they claim to value I think it's an important question now people are countered that that. Well you know we and Portland played invest in mutual fund anchor our hearts are in all of -- -- -- -- and and money -- everywhere which again another. Children struck so you're sure your -- or not expedient. You YouTube and whether it expedient. I think that problematic but you know I've been researching mayor on out there and your your that can be remotely operate our. A -- on that are created for people who are quote principled. Individual who say we don't want to invest in company. That are doing things we consider to be. Immoral are Christians and that there aren't available pocket obvious chosen not to invest in the company and I think about all those problem. Been there and have seen their defensive forward and his plans are directed and bested by employees. Not by -- or -- But it's saying to America and the finger little mantra and they do matching funds. Haven't exactly right and so there's still Linda. Well they are and at any day now that he's ever worked full time job. You're not yet been sort of -- carte Blanche authority to achieve any requirement and you wish when your card somewhere there. I'm certain that a plan that are provided by usually one individual. Investor and that you and that -- John Hancock core. And ample and Charles Robert whoever they are a partner that I chaired then. And that -- without oversight over these aren't yet they'd be. The employees using indicate the contraceptive. He -- accusing aired while I'm not exactly sure that irrelevant and -- the chart and I rather doubt. I'd probably true on not being heard by asking this. I've seen who else by Christian writers humorous news world report. Seen in the Persian posed the question. What would Jesus do how would you answer that. -- -- difficult question. What word what word -- do. I think some time. -- question. Is to Iraq and on answerable question I'm writing from a I'm calling in today rather from. -- and I am going down here in Atlanta and on the veneer city. It -- comparable. Mostly white affluent. Suburban area. Pacquiao at the question what would you that they -- -- -- I don't think you live in the paper. I think -- Lebanon -- Working guy in Calcutta. The more relevant question is. What would Jesus have got to be I think Jesus would want people are being penalized and or -- good even in the paper. And I would redirect back question. What we're you know have a debate so we know that he caught in the Koppel at -- this scripture in the revelation and I think one of the things that we know it. We're always call. To you to do rejected and a lot mercy and to walk humbly before god and I think these questions China. With these investments particularly when you're making public quite like pocket Bobby made. I think they deserve here. The U. Investor groups you're talking about forward and carry potential investment group. Veteran not involved in drugs for a abortion or. Not involved with companies that Euro in contradiction. Christian values. Would accompany the sides of hobby lobbies that that brings in. Product from all over the world would they be able to do business with charts that 401K. Yeah aren't you know that that's a really interesting question I'm not ID I don't know much about financial I'd probably work right now under -- not Europe. -- talked about the question that that you -- previous that's been through difficult exactly how that works and I can't. It when you have that much money your hobby lobby. And -- investing it in Q I'm like -- typically what you are. Is that individuals are willing to play ball in order to have a piece -- the pot so popular -- we wanted to put their foot down and demand thing demand at certain times. I'd be exempted from the mutual fund offering. I think that's certainly possible but it's not something -- -- -- or I you know we're going to be that having Gregory and I read an. Is it almost impossible. To be consistent in the modern marketplace based on the -- the paramedic. Jonathan cruelties. Appreciate the time in the expertise. I think you brought -- from issues -- never applaud. Thank you so much for the talk. Here good. Our coverage of the actual talked to a Planned Parenthood. And we'll talk to. Israel right to stay with WTO brigade celebrity -- 53 yet. All right welcome back -- -- -- finger above Monday's ruling by the Supreme Court. That Brooke for storing them legal corporations. Paper insurance -- -- coverage for contraception. Under reportable -- violated the federal protecting religious freedom. -- give their side of Clinton and put more meat and bones and it is in tiger's issue. We have Reagan Carter with the senior director of public affairs in the education from Planned Parenthood Gulf Coast will be in the Reagan welcomed sure appreciate it call. And doctor Damon -- -- Euro will be due bullion from -- -- Arabs at. The zoom right to light doctor welcomed the -- Think here but they also found me on the show. Appreciate both of covenant of Reagan give me an idea of what what does this ruling mean to your organs what do you get. Well this ruling it certainly is supporting the Planned Parenthood because we hear about a lot while the women that apple. For years and an -- out a country. There around thirty million women -- -- At her elbow for contraceptive services and prevention district that Affordable Care -- And that is -- it's according to those women who work organizations such a lot. And -- a country. Yes Islam while I actually. Took quite differently that this ruling does is it really refreshing. Com and encouraging her in the right direction we still have a long -- ago. Thomas socially when addressing. A lot of misunderstandings. And -- ideas or an errant beliefs about in the nature of abortion -- contraceptives and the whole. What didn't talk to me about some of the misconception. Well -- And that a lot of the media. Coverage that has been opposed to this ruling has. Attempted to portray this as somehow a decision that. Is that is doing what Tom -- Reagan had suggested that somehow limiting women's access to contraception which has done nothing of that sort. Never met a woman who has not had access to contraception should she desire it. Tom the loose decisions simply did not re asserting that principle that someone should not be forced to. Pay for a medical procedure. That is contrary to there. Told tropical beliefs against the bomb harm. I'm more in line for -- -- life. Of Reagan would. Do do you agree with the doctor that. Any woman can fund contraception. That she wants. Well I actually totally disagree about different make reference to a procedure. And it's not about abortion it's about. Contraceptive. Access to contraceptive and it certainly limit allotment at work where it. Worked -- a lot me and being able to access free. And our report that are women in this country are reported that they actually opt in and not abort their country. Now I totally -- -- Well yesterday suggesting that that a hobby lobby doesn't -- employees and after purchase. Medications that are otherwise. Very inexpensive miners and actually had their point is very generously -- -- the way I'm not mistaken. On the outside don't see how can anyone. Making you know a reasonable salary like that -- having difficulty paying -- -- co -- or even for prizes cost of such contraceptives and I think it's been going back to the however I think more importantly we need to get to that -- of this issue and it. How we're not merely talking about contraceptives especially in this case the the the point at issue here. Was not the contraceptive packed and stand for clarity reduced and that does things that would prevent. Consumption prevent the sperm from Simon and those would be contraceptives one that most clearly an -- goes way back and I went would be. Latex barrier devices content not sort of thing and and those sorts of things are in no way it would popular objective they objected. Two medical pharmaceutical agents that would prevent the implantation. And already conceived human embryo. And from a strictly medical standpoint they're actually there is would be considered a post prohibition also described as an important place in effect and so that. Precisely -- what. Hobby lobby was objecting to and so we're we're living beyond contraceptive -- are talking about abortion. And promised to. Another pro and play. Reagan your response to what the darkness. Certainly can't call it and he's probably making reference to plan B. And all of the medical report that round plans B&B. Does not -- an abortion plan B simply. Prevent implantation and prevent pregnancy is not called an abortion. And an -- weapons are brought Reagan because of that has brought the heart of the miss understanding here. Now modern science has taught that's human life is unique human individuals beginning. That is when we have the full complement of chromosomes when you have to. Contribution from him the male sperm and a female line and that actually happens. At that moment described as fertilization and conception of what happens typically and it -- into. On average somewhere between four to six days before implantation and so. The that are on my line of your life it's one of our -- actually began at that moment before implantation and so. If we do you have something which you have acknowledged like plan B as well several others that acts by preventing implantation. In the logical. Scientific understanding that this actually and support patient. Mechanism of action to use of pharmacology term now and I can on the -- toward the top of -- that misperception is so pervasive. There have been a -- in recent years to redefine pregnancy. To redefined. Even conception. Onward and people haven't try to go to -- to redefine fertilization. But that has been done precisely two optimistic at this point. That if we -- pregnancy began the implantation and then we consider those things which -- post fertilization pre implantation are not -- efficient but it sweet. Relies on the science which tells us that. Human life the new -- to begin -- implantation but that fertilization at conception then we'd understand what's really going on so. The on semantics the language. Confused as -- are quite and a. Certainly I was just say that that I'm certainly not confused about the the met its end. Don't artistic articulate debate that was strictly speaking about the DA approved carpet the plan B and that it is -- bit. Pregnant intricate. Implement implantation and not to how credible. -- -- -- -- Where it is buried were -- apparent that true against -- -- -- strictly. The new platform give aid song and so people -- in -- aroma and I appreciate your joining it's taken a quick break coming right back. -- of portion of comments Gibbs call. Two's are general wondered assembly tool for me and were in the country 680. Dollars and zero heats -- Welcome back word -- -- -- -- Supreme Court ruling on Monday. That report and -- old corporations have paper insurance coverage for contraception. -- -- -- current. Violated -- rule protecting religious freedom. The main companies they're talking about whose hobby lobby uber lord. They -- company and world. And we do we were having that ability to between the use it and seeing rector public years. And -- -- Planned Parenthood gulf close. And doctor Damon cannery. Row will be due -- and from Latvia. Rep using bright light. We did not know of the doctor who's coming in and -- quietly. And our producers sent that message saying. -- Ramon saying -- doomed separately. And mr. Reagan in this courtroom there. Felt like she did movements. And it was unfair and she dropped off and I would submit this and they bury bird Chicago simply. Minimum questions. No accusations no challenges. Simply saying what pure saw more -- others. Or people that lately and put it made of months ago a group formation. But ms. Corcoran or organization. Chose not to have that debate. To a doctor -- noodles -- appreciate your saying with those. One of the things I've read that. This Susan that big DO. So -- record members said. You are just. The government. Eighty. Four of the contraceptive. Would would that be a problem with your music. Well. That the the problem. Still comes down to here's ultimately paying and I think had a heart of how abilities objection -- to do. What are their conscience. They you know violate their conscience in terms of not going to cooperate. And be aborted patients. Pharmaceutical agents in particular so. It doesn't public while the problem that we move it to just the government more broadly speaking because every taxpayers to going to be contributing and that way. But it does it removed and -- to Parse it and here's some of these. On. The golden disk mr. description. Moral culpability. It it does make it more remote -- corporation in the employers themselves aren't directly. Contracting with -- insurance company pay for itself. It does make it a little bit more distant of their operations so it would be it would -- this the violation of their conscience and that way. But I think that to an extent as taxpayers we are cooperating. And for being forced to support things that violate conscience that is still problematic. And and applying. The national watch a lot. Long. Not been advocating for. Removal. Funding that would go to pay for abortions other government level. And the book logs -- events that typically not coming through I'm -- it and and the way. That Dundee redistribute their funds to cover costs of abortion and so. That the problem still live there. But it is somewhat lessened if that is moved away from the immediate employers. Possibility doctor everything I'm failing to askew will have got -- here that you wondered saying. Absolutely -- I think that one of the going back to business. Perceptions. And misunderstandings and I think that typically this debate is framed as if we're talking about. You know an ideology. Those who are against abortion the pro life group. And defiance of those who believe in abortion you know before talking about a -- person's religion debate. And I would have liked propose that we are some -- talked about on terms of the religion but it's reversed what remarkably think. Those. Opposed to abortion at large and I'm those with support -- -- compound armed groups support lot hobby lobby and its decision. Actually are the ones grounded in sound science. And actually has a certain degree of ideology and religion although they would not acknowledged as such that. That is supported the idea of contraception and abortion as being a fundamental human right that -- actually. Quite defied logic to suggest that a woman's fertility as a disease state that we need to somehow. Surgically or are medically depressed you know during her entire life so I think we we need to clarify the terms and and also on to point out that. These are not merely religious beliefs article update you know when we don't. Necessarily believe just solely because we rented at a particular Bible scripture that it's wrong to kill a and is -- alive but. It strikes to the core of what we believe the civilized society is about in terms of protecting innocent human life regardless of the particular religion. Saw because the weather reporting has described. On the hobby lobby -- as merely. There are religious beliefs that from certain forms from birth control our -- patient when it's more than just the religious beliefs about the science. Acceptable. Confirms that the things do in fact -- the workers and so. Again I think the closer look the science and medical pact would would actually support the position and that the the hobby lobby side has taken. Here. Doctors and into complicated issue or code words you lose you. I think in the interrogated in and help keep her bone saw and I appreciate your calling in appreciate you staying with. Thank you but a battle -- Although I'm disappointed that from the charter was able stay and I'm not surprised the device. To migrate the -- of the year is not a attempted to talkative I'm individuals on this issue. There is unfortunately very little public debate there's a perception out there that there's an ongoing debate but. When actually comes out having any kind of civil dialogue. Has greatly needed so I want to thank you for your efforts to have to bring -- there and and that. Round -- spark an opportunity to didn't give our positions. What can -- -- -- crumble and Aaron and submitted to the questions temperature reached them and you agree. Here and a little bit obligated summary AM 053 yep. If you just do so the last tournament and so. -- four to hear your of both sides. -- Planned Parenthood. Called -- -- -- And Louisiana right light. We've got a bright polite people stated weather is Planned Parenthood for up now. So they weren't in form that the could be there were mobile and saying. What happened that doctor with a bright light came and at the last moment. Producer but think Friday emailed him I don't know but the bottom line news. The leading with the -- Planned Parenthood. Apparently didn't like being on what the doctor. And shoe dropped out. Blitzer what we were trying to dupe me just Jordan -- spring court ruled earlier this week. That report and -- we will corporations. Paper insurers -- record on contraception. Under the report clear act. Violated federal -- protecting religious freedom. And yet you. Read a lot of the immediate concern is like I did. You'll find Christian writers a three incidents here -- we have one on -- year. Let me give you quote one -- usually when it -- securing. Five bedrooms a bit of biblical principles. A believe the company wanted. That to be there public persona. Would be careful to never do business with the bird people. Who go against everything that claimed like for Christians this was in the Christian -- and says bio. Guests. And win win when you look at that you look back they're talking about children hobby -- duke law world -- and and they've had over 300000003. And thirty million abortions. That data or no. The reports abortions that were recorded. Infanticide. Involuntary sterilization. But even when you read this huge funeral at the flip side from the media enough that I think they tried -- -- only one side of -- it's its shows it's very difficult to you hear one side in -- one sided than the other. Without form an opinion and without slamming barred from reporting just letting you listened to. And that's what we tried -- it didn't quite. In the meantime there and -- feels confident that he's got a fascinating show. Sailors governor Bill Gates celebrity a -- 53 yeah.