Welcome back that hour -- blow him. In the -- of so many shows on your search. -- attempt funny thing maybe you will that points out there I would liberal highly conservative. But they seem to be and organization. Did study is very important things in there -- and stability. The future of the Internet and -- they're saying is the other and is not true -- or opened. As for a is what's coming what they did it. They took a look at everything and realized they gonna beat. Five billion. Problems in the next decade that are on the Internet on a daily basis. What they did they got hold of 14100. Tech industry leaders academics. The world's best of the best that -- and worked with the in the world walk. And the house Kamal what are you seeing coming by -- 20/20. Well. And -- became put the -- you mean. Aside it is but it pure breed or report like. It's two. Grumble of everything but here's the three things. They. Control. Of the irritable mean less freedom and Garcia actions by an Asian states to maintain security. And political control. As relieved more blocking filtering segmentation balkanization. Of the number two. And that's the one we always talk about a year Ross. Who do you cross. And it's just trusses evaporated in the next few years are going to be about control. And sees this researcher from Microsoft Hughes said. Crossed his open communication technologies -- continued to -- the upper. In the wake of revelations about government and corporate surveillance and we have -- you wouldn't talk about today. And they say -- reported that reignited. Because so Chinese Peters. Of American corporate surveillance. Has become a major play -- one in just one. And major team concerning countries. Also the lure of money and dangers opened -- there's a series worried that commercial pressures. Will affect everything from in an architecture. To deplore that nation. In more deeply in danger of opening structure of all long line white. Cover -- that we'll talk to one of the authors of that pure search. And see what you'd think two's -- general 170. Concerned about privacy to a point where you're losing. Faith. You're losing trust. For is the other that so good that you're not concern. One -- -- -- but I'm convinced that pure assert should those from the moves. Well balanced. Informative stories. Out of all. Figures -- the microphone. We're probably do or shall once a month and something pew researchers them we did one last week and this week. Their latest news. And they point out that five billion numbers are going to be on the London next decade. So Barbara bright -- they were allowed to and talk to 14100 plots Internet experts within of that the technical types academic tied for -- -- And the estimates on the Internet can functioned five years 20/20. Five. And of these responses. Don't talk. -- we have limited time with -- rating. -- director of the pew of church sooners Internet project opponent of the authors of this Leo and that threat to the end. -- thank you so much I appreciated that time. I Garland you can't hang in there would you. We're saying we don't have a the most -- are really long -- that very anxious about what your next word was going to be well but Q you're. Unfortunately at liberty Jones radio you better think about it after the open after you say it. All right. Both for a get into one through three what's your overall. Look at it should optimistic. Pessimistic ordered -- in between. People. Elude the experts to respond to your question that we acting in. We would not talked about some of the previous reports we've done -- work. And the third totality. That response it is. These are gonna change a lot of technology that inevitable. And the direction of changes it pretty. Obvious now for the people who are immersed in the business and stuff like that. And they break apart we can't -- questions about what's it gonna mean what you gonna do -- and there are quite credible. Cases that that they make cabinet in some part of -- -- gonna improve their good things that are going to be -- maybe -- things targeted. -- more compelling. About that the way unit and it there's Wednesday it will help us get to our -- a little bit better. And there are equally compelling case to be made to other things we'll -- -- and don't dispute. Did that will be efficiencies and and helpful aspect that the Internet but analysis table what about privacy what about surveillance what -- -- digital divide. And this particular case when we were asking about threats to the Internet. There was such an interesting group of response to that basically that don't assume that all the changing the direction of change is inevitable there are big questions about who can get away. And the Internet act and that's what we're worried about now in and if if things break wrong. It will not be a pretty picture. Early look listen one through three number one. Control and means less Brigham actions by you'd taken by -- nation states. Maintain security and political control lead to more blocking filtering. Segmentation. Balkanization. Of -- and. Yet Andy do we get this survey -- starting around Thanksgiving has only open it up and be completed in January oh. Very much on people's minds as they were answering these questions. Were I have a series of developments in the past year about countries. Egypt. Russia China. And places that it has. Figured out. The technological means to shut down parts to the Internet or to be tightly. Monitoring what's going on and and getting rid of the people who were saying nasty things about the regime. So there are all sorts of -- now that these experts protecting. Authoritarian. People have -- Power to protect. Thank you can can use the technology to. Block certain people are saying certain things day progressed this year ideas and certain domains. And and there -- are quite worried that. The open Internet where everybody in every place sort of that equal access everybody Elton ideas can be. Abundantly shared that thing is compromised when -- the -- sector create their own. Version of the Internet it's. You know only available in their countries. -- Lil -- -- get a couple real time innings to lead into the second concern. I'm sure you wrote about washing -- couple of days ago came out and says that while law in Wednesday. Whenever we. Read about or look at. A privacy service or story about -- there watching -- what it's. Watching privacy services online even if you visit the web sites to read about their services. Your IP address has been collected and stored by the and -- said. This is according to a top secret source code book wrong units today. Also. Good -- Cuban. Or simply breaking news articles about these services. Published in. And breaking news and magazine like American scientific and wired. And then today. New York Times Obama administration comes out and says. The agency routinely filters out. Communications of Americans and information. That is of no intelligence value so not to worry. But doesn't this lead to number two in what you've -- our crossed regardless of whether. NSA is telling us the truth. The media has exaggerated the report that trust is about -- And trusted -- huge determinant of what happened on line you know you have to. Believe the 40% -- an email or before you want to browser start roaming around her when he tech query into a search engine. That. You know it's -- relatively much in intimate. And that -- people. Aren't necessarily watching what's happening or machines are captured it happening in and did certainly. Did people opted -- not being misinterpreted. And so now it's it's. You know big -- to these experts. That. That that -- it. Pervasive surveillance it's been described in intimacy. -- leak this Snowden links and other material. It is going to make people have doubts about the sanctity of their emailers have doubts about whether they should type in a certain forward to it search engines. And but he wants. This sort of basic trust that people had shown online begin to evaporate. Then the business models breakdown. This social benefits. That people think they get any Internet breakdown. That people watch you know their children they just found acting at the same way and -- and not necessarily a good thing for this environment according to these experts that we talked. And and finally in this was the biggest prize committee could. Truthfully I read probably a little over a hundred with the testimony from the port 200 plus you have. In the report. And I was surprised at how many academic commonly technical times somebody CEOs. Said what bases and what they worry about. Is that. Company's corporate America. Once television. On Internet. And once they do with they do the lure of money in dangers the open. -- our -- we -- question was the Internet was designed for maximum sharing of ideas without. Entities are people getting in the way between one and user and and other user and so we headquarters some of the -- that she did you worry about. These experts talked about a couple of things first the architecture the Internet itself if if it's possible for certain companies to. Privilege some kind of contents and integrate other kinds of content they're worried about after the date of net neutrality is sort of it permeated a bunch of the characters. Then there are other ways that they -- to think about intellectual property companies that are very insistent that they own ideas and they own material and may only your media. And world and are very vigorously enforcing you know payment schemes and and and take them schemes for material that they think it bears and they think the whole. Legal culture are around that and and all the commercialization accounts are mad as part of it. And the final thing -- get. The example would be and social media easier shared stuff with your friends on FaceBook where on Twitter or something like that. And the companies have stockholders and that they need to be making money. On off off the engagement and says there are ways that. That commercial activity advertisement to get placed around some of the things weren't there are sponsored ads or there are ways in which. In the commercial. Imperatives sort of enter that space that many people loved because it's sort of that intimate social. One more question no problem with. Them. I read this in one of the tennis motor wannabes and consultant to. Who was -- one porn with or -- at the -- insert. The biggest show in some more positive Internet use -- in creating better intellectual in question the skills. Starting school and gone. Lazy people can opt to draw us entertain themselves and permit others to dumb them down and exploit them. Dot com that is -- surprising concern. Yeah what we can do you -- -- if you want -- -- -- interest staying. A -- banter about to that question and other questions that basically they would got to step up our citizenship. In order to be good participants on the Internet there's so many away. That epic can breakdown there are so many ways of people can be awful to each other -- so many ways that people can. Make -- really catastrophic mistakes of the dumbest reasons. And we've just got to be smarter it's almost like in the senate liberties that we have to happen our life. To master the technology understand with the technology is doing understand. To use and not be abused by a you know search functions and and other kinds of things being able to sort out the charlatans from that from the good actors. They're all sorts of -- emotional and and and certain. -- -- skills that these experts which are worried about -- and they think their talk really well in the schools now even the teachers are. More anxious about -- than anybody since and that's what's gone on in India to secure. -- I know you're -- copper and what true do in your profession. But I can tell you made a huge moves that I've I've got to him today saying we could -- whole show -- So I -- have you back. I'm I would love that you know that if this is -- great that. To ponder. Well. The book things you guys -- church. And what -- learned I would submit 90% of those would never have moved from were doing and so thank you so much of the time and the report. And double talking to you -- in tiger shows some. Thanks very much taught him I don't know -- via. Director of pure Serb center's Internet project. If you get -- chance to pull it up -- a reason it's. 14100. Of the world's. Most learned experts. From a technology. Standpoint from a journalistic standpoint. Prominent academics and point. And they bring up concerns. And some -- Two things that I guarantee. -- that you nor -- Ever thought we're talking about a new study by a -- surge we're wrote talking about the good about it -- -- probably. Don't have the time to plow through the results of interviews with the over 14100. And experts from them all in the world viewed as some. To retreat from search. But they pointed out they're going to be about five billion knows -- to have debuted in -- to stay in and in the next decade. So they went to the 14100. Watched experts and so what is seen by the year 20/20 five. And there it is it gets highly complicated when you read. A Brit probably too little bit over 100 of the interviews. And there's a lot of different parts topic came up with -- three main category. And we just spoke to of the Euro author of the pew report. Overlooked enough to have a professor at the University of California Los Angeles. Legally -- Leo welcome -- the short Pritchard bury him. Thank you -- glad -- -- it. 11 or veto. The refitting the puke came up where the incidents. Control means less freedom actions they combine nation states to maintain security and political control. Will lead to more blocking filtering segmentation. Balkanization of the unit. Wall Street Journal today -- headline. Russian lawmakers pass new bill restricting. Internet. Huffington Post two months ago a trying to building a wall against the unity that we know it. Or won't what do you get from this to oral or we're looking at let's freedom. Well I think -- at the present time anyway I think we are in. The middle of the period where. There is more closures there is more locked down. Mean. What we pick up the Internet talk there's back to the late 1960s but the world wide web weightlessness now. Only about inspections. Early ninety's. And what was so revolutionary. What was so do. And and what kind of upset a lot of industries and established businesses but it would decentralize its -- -- you know if -- immediate opening for publishing company. Who ever. We don't have to go through these central. Authorities should approach control places you. It'll work out anybody can really you know that the intent of anybody else can share what -- now can create things. That was. But now. We're moving back it's kind of like that the pendulum is swinging back court central station and now more. Organizations governments. Industries. Are interested in locking it down restricting what people. With missiles and I think. -- or we're into a period. Kind of swing back towards centralization. Certainly. You don't have to each pulling the technical side this because. Malawi technically true and I can actually. Turn the computer all and end term and now we -- -- after -- I don't like Brett. -- and so does the question is -- like China. Build. And enter the ball wouldn't want to say and mean today. Just block of Google and FaceBook and they have their own or. How does that -- do does that mean Chinese people can't get too and worldwide. Information. It means that in those places where governments or sometimes in private sector that -- mostly in the -- They can in October what is coming through their system from oversees. That contract. And then they can elect and choose which streams they're going to shut out. It's really kind of flies in the face of the whole reason the Internet was built in the first which. To make sure it at any point -- in court so. In the Chinese expert in them on the changes raised. When we say that they can't. The Chinese people can't see Google. Really true because Google was willing to. Carry information that Chinese authorities want to -- And what they do -- years. Find on the transition points. From outside where that information as well and they can block. Interestingly. Even here in the United States law enforcement in some places we've seen it -- -- came -- light air here. Couple years ago. More and more authority law enforcement want what they call kill -- Two vehicles shut it selected parts. The Internet or information flows. Publication that the -- So I'm not an engineer even after I couldn't tell you what those specific. You know what they've built our it is a matter of being able to. Monica this stream trough selectively parts. They want and as a technical matter that possible. Arab your member of wind and it's a revelations with -- -- appeal. First appeared. President Brazil found out we were spying on her and she's -- call votes to. South American countries and applicant countries. To divorce themselves from the quote American Internet. Throw -- wall and build -- in their own countries China is already done this Russia today had a -- of parliament that. Settlements do exactly and a -- to control via net more. Two drug talk about is we were lucky enough for the first half hour to get one of the directors authors with the pew of church and always have -- professor University of California Los Angeles. Legally broke where this. Professor. Probably news a little strange question. But in the a couple of the scientific and technical magazines. I've read about something called -- to block in what it is it's. All the -- simple app. The lips anyone encrypt in the thing and it and it basically says all purpose encryption file. Bid to a creature Regan opened sorts browser plug in designed to let even. Lewd acts of the -- -- and technology encrypt and decrypt while with practically and practicable. Cryptographic. Protection in seconds. Let's just say this does work. Do you foresee that becoming more and more part of the -- Well I think that. It's been true for a long time and especially in. Engineering community the technical community there's always fall if we -- Simple encryption. Program. You know my mom could install our machines. On the people might take a little more time in little more careful about thinking about their communications their personal nation. And I am trying to do something about keeping that Al. Prying eyes of whoever you know like me. Government has been on the case with Newton and with Brazil and also with Germany model or -- But it also could be commercial ventures who want to know what more apt to want to do we're talking. So yes this is penetrating for a long time did you know. It hasn't been picked up. And I think one of the things that -- block that they're betting on is that they can simply make it. For people to install kind of thing is we built up com mentality. Come on -- social. That people are going to necessarily. Protect themselves it's -- not enough people to really make a difference a week so far what. Now it's true. Most of the corrections. -- -- And that is that we have out now are difficult and they float out the sister and me. -- -- spectacles -- less convenient to use. So if it works that would be great I think a lot of people would. Get a shot probably but at least so far. Most people aren't used to the idea of having to. -- Their communications. With each other. To keep them from prying eyes and so it would mean a change of habits personal. The -- that we interact we use. Our communication devices we -- Nothing against her mother but didn't pick should be me. You were you one basic. Non understanding -- the -- All right and your ears -- second thing. That to me is the most important ago -- than the go back to a couple of days ago to get to what they've reported. Well it was WIRED Magazine Washington Post again that came out instead and they say you really watching it. When ever we try to get on things like the little lap I just talked about something called. Tore the onion Robert. Result quarter of that and enabled online anonymity and resistant to censorship. This as they have cold hard evidence that is in this city's own evidence. That says even if you go read about it you're being ahead and and logged in as a potential threat. And -- same time today. New York Times Obama administration comes out and says we do -- and routine filtering all the time it's of no intelligence. You. Let's go as far as saying. The president and and his people are absolutely right but the fact the questions are being Britain's allegations being made. That we're doing what -- troughs in what happens after that. I think that's armed. -- a couple of things about encryption in particular Agent Orange. Others. I think. You know remember that part of this -- and revelations and and what is coming out subsequent. And all of that is that an -- in some of the other top. Law enforcement and security organizations. Are in fact -- evidence -- -- actively undermining. Publicly available encryption. Software like war. There's been a couple of them -- where they have to take out of service because in fact it did. Disrupted. And they're not exactly sure where it's coming from the early. There is good evidence. This is one of the efforts on the government's part chooses not only in one open access. Two of these streams in the nation tour. Patient but anything that we might want to look like -- defend against. There Islam. Some disruption. We this is -- difficult you know and when we hear things like that is to say you know this is one of the danger findings in the -- It -- study was that it is -- question trust you know people are beginning it will. What do I do about actress patients we're ago looked and talked. And and that's really. Kind of what -- atmosphere. I think that this. Locked -- sense that we have and cultural a lot of places are not just corporations and government either. It's we knew -- parents and teachers and cultural groups say you know there are certain -- speech or there's certain kinds of images or others that this activity. -- That we don't like that are threatening. It would mean world out there we want somebody to stop we want a way to turn aspects call on when you've got political groups. That -- suppress certain kinds of ideas. They disagree with. We're -- find some way to sabotage is to exclude information that they disagree with what it sends them. I'm more when you have commercial interest that built what they call these walled gardens like you'd get inside. You are a customer can only by her. They are software or their content in here. There web site or in the commercial. Area all of these. -- all of these block all of these things stop. It is information stop people from being -- to inquire and ask can find out what -- walked out. And in that climate is ready to see where people begin to get a little cynical and just say well. You know. What can we trust in the become kind of positions. And they -- getting very introducing professor. I think I'll learn something in your class thank you so would with the content. You have ever have a great day in California. A -- you will double them.