"The Think Tank" with Garland Robinette
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7-10 10am Garland, NSA leaking

Jul 10, 2014|

All of our personal information vacuumed up by the National Security Agency--illicit sexual liaisons, mental-health crises, political and religious conversations, financial anxieties, personal photos, etc. BUT, if you have not done anything wrong, you’re not worried…right? Will the latest revelations about the NSA devastate people who defend it? Garland was joined by Joe Sylve, Co-Founder of 504ensics and Dakota Wood, Senior Research Fellow for the Defense Programs at the Heritage Foundation.

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Automatically Generated Transcript (may not be 100% accurate)

It's our only to be asking news second it's. About a Washington. Post report to I think couple weeks ago and there and it's the latest. From -- it's no -- Edwards moved and revolutions. And and what it says it is the -- -- say National Security Agency. Collected and stored intimate chat apps photos. Emails. Belonging to innocent Americans. And secure than -- poorly. That reporters all the -- the world can now browns them at world. So will will talk to a very conservative organization heritage for an additional man. And emotional talk about that this up hour. But a more brings something that helps up we have borrowed jewels still will -- co-founder of five. -- of oh. Foreign six. Joseph welcome back to sure appreciate call. Government background or. Not -- book security experts in the past when we don't. Shows on the news -- Revelations and and other thing we've learned about government surveillance. I'm always says will be his report where there is an industry. That grows jobs. That allows office to take control of our information. No word hazard others so much talk about big Brothers so much talk about being watched constantly. It would seem like to be marketed for. Office the guy on the street the businessmen and to take back some of the control would not all -- And every time I've been told well you know it's nice thought yeah. Were up against government were up against foreign countries were opinions. Experienced -- But I want to go over a number of news articles that Adams to work over the list problem and latest it is Politico. And -- what they didn't. Billy. Did review. Of industry in the big edict industry. And they go -- last lobbying on cyber security and privacy you know the date has its iiroc. End. Doesn't obeyed the troll forums. That that respond to individual and small groups end. Established industry players the the big legal and political world in. -- warm in Washington. Are all so -- during what they call -- red hot market. And touting their top recruit from the executives. In legislative branches of the federal government. Does that suggest that what I had to have in the -- house may be the least part of an idea and -- Well. You know pretty free market dictate the law and -- One of the positive things that came out of its these two weeks. About it which I didn't really know the stuff what does. A surprise to. You know security researchers and an expert. But it did start the conversation a large element a lot of people to be a little bit more conscious about security. -- on the other end of that in some products that are ready came out. That they were. Of Lubbock it was one problem where which allowed people to secure cricket email. Addicted easily use it and sent around. But the problem is. Then be -- at this shut down. Their service because the epic contacted them and told them that we want to we want access -- this criminals could be used in the stand and support them. By law to -- -- older. There could and she -- All our Porsche. And eight they chose the shut down and and -- know what happened and actually at the in my apparent -- -- trouble that. Yep they're definitely a market their privacy but will the government allow it. I'm not short because of course criminals could use use the same technique student to buy patents outlawed for. And dog -- something big collective would please read Wall Street involved. Might be the -- same thing you think. Bill threat from and -- It's it's certainly possible and there's been there's similar thing came out there very. Well used encryption software. Called TrueCrypt that. For years is open source free or consult where's that everyone in the security industry. Considers it really really get well. Last -- some time. The developer. Released. And in order to the developers so they can't really be questioned but they released a release only allowed you to decrypt stops and not encrypted anymore and that don't use this anymore. And that's kind of still round ground mystery but it's one of those things that are a lot of people just assume that he got he got the same sort of letter. Thank very. We want the pakistanis. To back toward equality practiced. But in a car that's just speculation at this point that the doctors not certain what. Triggered speculation. And questions -- what was announced Tuesday is there ever gonna be marketed to deserve a new device or devices. Better sold them we can get -- that we can take some of our privacy and responsibility. Towards security back to wants. And better understand that whatever had talked -- technology. I called drew so. Vizio co-founder probable -- role of foreign -- And Joseph wanted I mentioned rug -- we took the break WIRED Magazine. Had a headline be evident the all for a simple up the -- in the one encrypt innate thing. And it's called me in the walks in this what they say about it. Practically. On likable and encryption. Protection and second it's super simple approachable. Almost impossible to get confused putting it together or of downloading it. And download so for a blow more than 750. Tells have you heard about this and and is that. Something else NSA's gonna call. Children don't -- -- that people who today. I'd better not do that and. Yeah also. Are hurting but many and I'm not sure it's out yet I think -- got like an early early demo. And this is definitely gone in the in the right direction right it. Encryption right now kind of a difficult thing sure people would do all the really advanced users can do it in the problem is it's only really useful people you're communicating also. Uses it so for. Even a technical person trying to communicate securely and non technical person and it's very difficult. So lose something like this that allow that you literally cute you know drag and drop something into a little square and an editor somewhat. That that would going in the right direction and in in it makes it makes it easier for for all people approach. And there and if you did work to -- wired says the thing to work and if people did start getting as all -- world. -- what do how many calls and -- say in May have read pretty hard blocked it back down wouldn't. Well unfortunately. One of the things that we view we've learned from the from the leaks come from Edwards note is that. As security researchers -- things that we thought -- the care and the beginning of the week. We're we're on an idiot they are secured it doesn't seem like the NC at any sort secret way to break the action that we actually -- secure. But the problem is that there seem to be attacking me and points so for example the mini locker. It is. It seems like a plugin that you put into your group cool chrome browser. Well rather than try to intercept the encryption and and cracked the encryption at the NSA was targeting an individual. What they would do -- they could do to strap a piece of malware on year on your computer and just. -- -- -- up from year from your browser itself. And then look forward to actually -- at a hydrant at your end or at the end it petitioning to after they've decrypt it. And another thing we've learned it is. Just by using correction and it seems that the and it's saying world. Me me me me Q a target bill bill's story your encrypted data indefinitely in case ten years from now they and decrypt that. Part of the bigger using encryption you might have something. And you know without. Really laws protecting Americans from that that it's nothing and stopped doing. -- introducing so. -- -- where this device wild your typing whether reared typing it's not encrypted -- -- send it. Exactly. And and I mean for -- for those vast majority. People are actually being specifically targeted. You know campuses this is doubly more secure and discipline -- stop. Any individual who might be able to get into your team now. And then and then look for years here -- -- like get your actor but I they're not going to be able to read any of this stuff so I would not discourage people from using encryption. I think encryption is good thing. But we just need to realize when you're dealing with you know government level organizations that have more resources than than most in the world. There's very little you can do actually keep them out. And movement will breed reduce showed -- -- -- Explain to people what -- or use to you war. Tour is told as a built a new year and then basically. It's it's it's goes to science -- connecting yet university and and he. In the in the movies when they're like -- I'm bouncing my connection out of six different servers and and makes it makes it more difficult to track. Both tours is is actually. That's actually what it it's -- it'll take your Internet connection you can use in specific browser. And -- sponsor connection awful several different layers of encryption there are several different boxes all over the world. And kind of masks your identity if you're using proper. And just like Q mergers said -- this device on wired. I've I've read core I read other things on a regular but it specially women do shrew like those. And the U. Not one article would mini article a broad over the last week. Said that the government tracks that and -- -- -- -- click in and read it that was all part of a Washington Post revolution -- the leaders node and catch. If you just click on and read it. Your lives it is possible -- Yes so of course like anything. Any privacy tool could be used by criminals from the very purposes. Same reason I would assume that. There is registry for anyone who's who buys weapons in the -- you buy a weapon you're automatically somewhat suspect. Possible criminal activity get fingerprinted and stuff like that. And it's a difficult problem Raikkonen who -- who -- -- -- we we know that there are absolutely criminals out there. Who you know are using that stuff for a child corn and and and other things and I don't think there's anyone who agree that these people need to be able caught it should not be in the tree will huddle we pal -- and privacy how do we say just because I'm using encryption doesn't automatically mean I'm guilty. The and that event comes back to something we talk about on the show all the time you know we can point to. Buying a gun and they know who you war and it should be you would cry to bug and at that you know. But that's -- more than two or -- repaying. We're talking about computers. Were talking about. Hundreds of thousands of things that the contract -- the -- of Cuba who can -- illusion. Something colts -- as -- me it's. FaceBook plan. Not pay income and there's this is just an app that's coming on the market. Playing to provide -- way computers sell your own online David directly to advertisers. And others of your -- -- -- focusing on helping you collect analyze your social media data through this mobile out. That connects to multiple social network. Giving more and sighed in how boost things were today. Taken ownership waved from FaceBook and others putting is in your hands to b.'s sole. Could you possibilities thing. -- it's an interesting idea. Of course you're never going to -- -- chip away from from Golan reached -- here in Twitter -- that because when you're using their service for free. You're agreeing to allow them to use your identity and so it. And -- and it. Relatively and on -- way. To advertise is to -- -- that make money. So the the idea over the future identity is being salt advertises anyway you might actual be directly prop profiting off -- that is. Is interesting that I'm not sure. You know how that would work in practice I'm not very familiar. -- Joseph. I get a feeling and Craig moved whose real new wrong. Concerned about privacy and -- over the goal and. You know what we can't we can't just give up and really what we need to do is that there needs to be laws and laws need to catch up. And not just electorate -- -- constitutional laws that you don't have to testify get yourself and it doesn't automatically make sure make you guilty behavior you're completing the senate amendment there need to be. Similar things he cannot automatically assume someone is guilty just 'cause they're trying to decry that. And you know and the technology need to catch up we need. You know and -- security researchers we are actively working on as we need to have everything encrypted by default and then when everything's encrypted by all. The encryption doesn't stand up. We're -- or your businessmen and always pressured you're Gibbons and tons of them veterans in these issues. Again give people a -- you'd company unit. Somebody has a question about cyber security -- to -- call. Absolutely. Companies named Bible forensics labs we're local here in New Orleans do digital forensics computer security. You can get more information. Article four labs dot com. -- as always appreciated I'm sure we'll talk again. -- Series. Recent live from Washington Post. Latest revelations from Edwards and opened in the reporters that -- put them. Now say that the and yesterday in. Collected and stored in -- and shouts photos and emails. Belonging to innocent Americans and secure -- so poorly that reporters can go browse the ball would blow. Worldwide. There and -- groups who what do experts think a bottle that we've got decode -- who's given some of his time. Seen her church felt important programs at The Heritage Foundation -- welcomed true. Print shoot talks are to be blunt went -- Terry Collins. But it seems to be you know social order mentality doesn't mean you know that during these broad sweeps presumably against. The legitimate targets they catch. All the things that you just mentioned you know these. Very private to on non. Broke problematic and ark restaurants conversations -- reduced or destructive part of some fear that. Oh waiter on made that might lead to something and so they wanna have -- -- for scored material that they can go back and sift through. To see if there are linkages. Weren't apparent to -- when the information was collected that seems internally count for. To the all optimizations that they were provided. And it certainly I think the broader danger. Abused the power situation that states it is is news that the roads to trust between the people. And there government and that leads I think to break down. On the Internet social order and Serpico. Responsibilities in this trusting kind of relationship did that that that -- -- As day Indian details that -- -- things like transcription. Of school children and young girl soon religious dresses. Outside of them now Moscow scores of pictures show infants toddlers and bathtubs. Sprawled on the backs being -- -- the mother. And so among men -- throwing all of the proceeds of -- women and launch written it is that can read and as -- playing. That when they've vacuum all of this stuff up to protect. It's in order to go back and two dimensional and they just don't have the ability to separate the -- out from the week. Well yeah it's like if you had a conversation this -- the conversation with a relative you march up one topic of that conversation goes down different patents. -- -- posting things to Facebook's. You know it might be a recipe it was on one today. And then later in the next days it's it's an actual conversation about its business related so in this vacuuming effort. All of this stuff it's poll -- And I think the NSA is saying -- it's its two hour this would be their argument. Two separate. You know that the wheat from the track and so all of this stuff it's up to open there and -- an extra going to do you like conducted in -- news media comes and and looks at things you can pull out these innocuous items that have nothing to do with the national security -- Barbara but it's it's a result of the vacuuming. You know approach that that the university has -- has adopted. You know of concern that everybody is right pointing out his wife's story wise it's stuff in there which you've got to dedicate manpower and resources. To it and delete things. That are national security related managed haven't got to that point we don't know it was -- their intent to get to a point and that's why can't use that to mr. Order mentality collect collect collect. And you never go back and call. And get -- of things which you just don't need. Well it's good to have -- for a bit the picture. Let let's say okay here and include. You got me I can argue with the we need our depends. About what government moves to do. You were doing and understand you have people to liberal walls of the -- shouldn't. But it is is it also raises the question of security yeah. Reuters today reports that Chinese hackers. Can do computer network. At a US government agency. And their targets. Or employees. Who have applied for top security clearances. And they and there corruption there numbers. If they're allowed to vacuum. All of this stuff horribly confident on the off to keep it confidential. Do it it doesn't appear so we've seen repeated instances whether it was Pakistan. Health records. Social Security account information. The class horror clearance information and where that information itself this class apart -- has to go all the stuff that's. That a person in the open public domain to get information -- do that went on becomes course apart but all that is out there. And it's all subject to human error you know somebody you know -- so hard drive in the back and all our you know. Or they sure parents were with the co worker packets you know obligated to work they pick up. An email and click on going that they should have clicked on and that introduces some kind of malware into a system. Which is what to yeah but in the cyber world with the Chinese with the Russians and -- to mark on a regular time so. These promises that nothing would -- be compromise searches fiction because. People are prone to hear the whether it's because they want to go through things you know kind of this voyeuristic matter. But -- just careless and through that carelessness you know it creates -- windows of opportunity. -- -- competitors in -- -- -- -- to to do that so you know it it it brings September you should contributing that the war. The government stores. The more opportunities there it is for error and four on intentional release refer exploitation. By people that you just don't want to to have access to information. Later it's a cache of information from Edwards you'll know pointed out that the FBI is targeted. American Muslims problem -- so Roy its leaders academics. Better numbers stores suitable warriors play an owner and suing the government over the surveillance. -- Dakota would Wear the -- senior research fellow for would be -- program that The Heritage Foundation. Because it continues soon the government. The -- concerns that government if you can make a case that some kind of constitutional. Restriction. -- has been violated so under normal circumstances an elected government official. Cannot be sued if they are operating in accordance where there -- position. It's the institution itself to the US government that you could follow suit. Against an the federal court and that that's why we see cases that come approach Supreme Court where it's. -- the US verses on to perhaps so I think there's possibility that there that it showed that their constitutional rights on all assertions future. Our personal privacy issues like that was ordered. -- wanna go back something you mentioned that we do. A lot of truth -- crossed. Probably. 456 months ago. Important bordered on the poll we did today we have more cobol Prodi government -- program and their redemption unscientific. We got a pretty big audience -- of goods and and we bet if you've done nothing wrong. Do you care if NSA or the government. Has your personal information. And I guarantee you the first. Twenty of these we did did you know it's almost a 100%. Today it's 71%. Saying yes I would care. Which to me. Is an indicator of of losing trust. It is one thing to say I don't like big government it's one thing to have. To say -- that -- would like small government as possible. Well what's the in game if we truly lose trust in government. I I think this is the most fundamental issue did did you bring. And it's so important to -- and I really applaud you for doing so that's the week when you would you trust and you know marriage or friendship and business and bar or at you when you trust the other person. You you you give them all -- attitude to do things because you believe that they are. In general operating in your best interest and -- -- -- -- tree you you know and so. You can give up passed a whole lot of things that and I'm not on trusting relationship would automatically make use suspensions. And now with our government is such that it that it has won some powers. Local state federal levels. It it is able to do the things that you just -- -- against individual you know the -- -- -- point having accessed or financial. Or. Whatever that might be. Bitty -- trust that the government is fighting in your quarter as opposed to against you chip and ought to -- auto we waits. To do things that are in the long term best interest of the country. But when the when the behavior that government or government officials is so large that it violates that trust new QB trade. You now become suspicious of that things that it it's. You -- what I wanna give -- -- thing to the IRS for local law enforcement of portage what have you if now on suspicious that they gonna use that in some manipulative way. Perhaps years down the road outside of my knowledge. And it's gonna come around and bite me you know. So on this erosion of roster ethnic usage is destructive. To the fabric of American society. And and creates. A gap widens the gap. Between the public and it makes people cynical. It makes them not want to be involved in the political process. And that. In and of itself or results in ever greater power in an isolated kind of sense. Of activity on the part of the government. Two and it just it leads to road to road to ruin nation and and I -- we applaud you for bring in -- That -- I would assume whom we only have thirty reported five seconds left. I don't assume that if we get too extreme enough of and I know this sounds ridiculous. There could be some form of them -- because they're non. But well you know use -- other countries where you don't trust government to do to look at behaved responsibly and the resources you store on reporting taxes -- hiding information. It creates a distrust cross society -- or urged. And it's not a -- that the United States wants to be on that the public officials continue to act the way they do you'll see contemporary prints that you mention. Well when six were so acute that says is in the thing and reviewed terrorists more -- I appreciate the time and -- to you very much. -- -- Our double bill bill -- Sibley a moral 53 get them.

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