WWL>Topics>>7-28 9:10am Tommy, should we legalize drugs?

7-28 9:10am Tommy, should we legalize drugs?

Jul 28, 2014|

Tommy talks to Pierre Gierach, a former prosecutor and spokesperson for LEAP, and Dr. Kevin Sabet, the Director of Smart Approaches to Marijuana, about whether legalizing marijuana would reduce violence

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Automatically Generated Transcript (may not be 100% accurate)

You say 88. 88. Heat index -- -- the temperature or is too damn high. He -- a -- game does not gonna happen to read food in my movement if you don't have ribbons or can afford to pay their rent. Memory and rent is too damn high guy at a when you're talking a minute about thank you David and I got to go to talk about -- This. It concerns me and I don't know what the answer would be because when you hear about the drug violence in Mexico that is being going on for a long time. And now the rest of central American and always has been there -- -- but they call a narco violence drug trade. As you'll fueling violence against citizens who gave caught in crossfire citizens who they perceive to be. Rats are not going along with the program and in Atlanta so many people coming in this country as of late. I just don't know what the answer is here I don't know if we're faced with the decision. Continued violence because there is so much money yet play. Or legalizing drugs and taken away. That -- on incentive for the criminals I really don't sort of talk about that. Henry on the north shorted talk about it I'm guessing. The lady that called earlier. Yes. Let me prep programs saying. Well on the site must think I'm not a weapons expert by any stretch that I've had occasion to fire at nine millimeter as well revolver. At far range. On the north -- in recent weeks. And what is that a concern to me is in with a nine millimeter type weapon -- type weapon. If you have a round it does not far you'd have to pull the slide back and it Jack Bagram. Now in the heat of the moment. I think a lot of people have trouble doing practically -- With the old fashioned -- if you pull the trigger on this fire if you pull the trigger or Canada and not around automatically comes up. You don't have to pull slide back and -- Iraq. And it's not easy to do on and nine millimeter type weapon practically new. Very few that maybe -- police professional something called -- to confirm about -- But I expression first I -- Henry M glad you called in -- get your take on this before -- to go and that is. Do we have a choice. Nudges in the country but in the world of either legalizing drugs. Or dealing with increasing violence because so long as there's that big money incentive. I don't see how it's any different than prohibition I really don't. But you're absolutely on target I mean a lot of people myself included -- good -- this for 2030 years now. I know it opens the door for some. Took some people to maybe try it who would not trotted before. But alcohol is legal and -- we know that prohibition doesn't work and until we take the profit incentive that nothing's gonna happen not an attack. I agree totally thank you for call and and I and it just seems like. Did they're going to be some cost to society of drugs illegal I fully realize that but I think the decision. We have to make certainly as a country and maybe. You know as the Americas is. Ari are you gonna. Deal with the violence is -- would you would rather have or would you rather deal with the consequences of drugs being illegal because I don't think. There's any middle ground Jim juror act joins us right now former prosecutor and a spokesperson. With lead which stands for a law enforcement against prohibition morning -- A good morning -- good to be with union Lesnar. Thanks for taking the time -- this narco violence for people don't understand that maybe we can begin at some definitions what exactly is that. What what is what kind of an -- all while. Built on drugs means violence. The war on drugs means Al Capone. The war on drugs means prohibition. The war on drugs means 101000 people killed each year and Mexico. The war on drugs means 57000. At children's flooding. The American southern border from Honduras and Guatemala and El Salvador because the bank balances will be edited -- level. Prohibition. Mean the United Nations treaty of 1961. That requires the world. Every nation that was a party to these treaties to prohibit an outlawed drugs. To criminalize the recreational use of substances. To go home and the pastor controlled substances. Act. Which mandates that every nation in the world who's a party should treaties outlawed books. And and therefore can signing the world and it's people on ending. -- says the kids by eagle with -- most valuable commodity -- the face in the you're which is narcotic drug. Things that have no value and Carolina plant in the ditch until you outlawed when some people want them and then becoming and the most. Most. Lucrative. Business in the world. When you mention all of the the Mexican. I casualties 101000 people a year killed when you talk about 57000. Kids streaming across the border parents wanting then escaped that. Hum. It's a -- much as marijuana are there other drugs or fuel in this. We need to legalize in Ctrl+Alt. Drugs that are happening in the people wish to consume -- because the drugs are good but because number one. Prohibition is the most effective way to put more drugs and controlled and unregulated everywhere. EU weekly when I was. Narcotics and homicide prosecutor in Chicago in the early seventies. The best heroin in Chicago and across the country was 2% pure. After forty years of drug prohibition we now have 90% pure and with the kid and welded deuce -- suburbs of Chicago. Overdosing on heroin kids selling heroin is making money and you know. Kittens who can more easily access care of one -- and cigarettes are typical because they're regulated. And control. When you -- something irony should give up the right to control and regulate it. It's the drug cartels in the street gangs to decide what drugs are going to be shall in your neighborhood house strongly. Where they're going to be sold what the hours of COR -- -- yet to be here so let them buy it. In error and recruiting kids taking them away significantly influences in and and and warping them but says that this threat to -- that the threat the the temptation of money. And it took just turned like planets and has had. Before we get to how much money -- we talking about clearly do as it relates to kids in regulation and I can imagine some people listening right now similar cancel just by an underage Natalee to a black market and -- I think where you started but. You know you gotta be of of X amount of age to buy cigarettes of X amount of -- to buy alcohol and there's no huge black market for that to. Underage people is there. Well that's correct them anytime you put regulations in place somebody make trying to circumvent that regulation instead it's the nature of man. But that doesn't mean that we can't try and control and regulate substances that are dangerous. But from the business standpoint -- there's no. Big black market and underage. Oh cigarettes for outrage people. Correct we -- that we put the alcohol prohibition in the Al Capone out of business the Al Capone to date have now. Appointment of these other substances which -- prohibited. You know at different times and in the world history in the sixteen understood Beckel was the death penalty offense first smoking cigarettes. During the Ottoman Empire. You know and then you're you're schooled by league decide what order -- America want there outlaw opium trade in 1912 people and convention. And then in 1961 the United Nations in and a 186 nations says what we're gonna outlaw quality drugs for recreational use. So you know we met them. Amphetamines. Big epidemic and internationally where the rate of Matthews is increasing. Two years ago lament and Yemen united nations commission and narcotic drug. They -- worldwide sixty tons of -- I'm in Mexico City giving a speech a couple of years ago and they -- and that was I think 1415. Tons of mass market we were there. And the guys from the United Nations and state with when he says we can't legalize drugs would be inimical to that the public health. And here is that an audience. And speakers collected from around the world. Book where assembled there because they've been chilling in Mexico is so big and so on livable because the United States. Spending 400 million dollars a year to wage a war on drugs. In in Mexico. And I in and I get up after the -- it it was you know you're worried about the public's help as we legalize drugs. Look look at the people sitting out here in this audience there appear here because the murder is absolutely epidemic. An -- in the area asking for a week so domestic physical act of the United Nations and tell them to repeal the -- treaties. They require all nations to do the same thing to outlaw of these drugs. And instead of control and regulate -- drug physical problem. Instead of the law enforcement and a militarized problem. I don't wanna confuse fiction with reality here but as a frame of reference a lot of us. Watch the the breaking bad is series and and ended one scene where there's uses huge pile of money in a storage shed. And I'm wondering just in terms of of money some people understand the profit motive. What kind of dollars -- you're talking about here again. And at the United Nations and other experts have estimated that the illicit drug business worldwide is 500. Billion. Dollars a year. 500. Billion. So. We're talking about one of the largest businesses in the world may -- -- maintained itself bank choosing to restore prohibition. To support that the -- And it -- poems of the world. You know we immediately have -- -- locked up huge parts of the world we have in the unit is based twelve point two. Million people behind bars the highest rate of incarceration. Of any country in the world. And and yet we have more violence more drugs more of everything that we don't want. The United States has 5% of the world's population but 25%. Of the world's prisoners prisoners because of this crazy line. You know what amazes me about this when you can if you wanna call -- narco violence narco trade whatever it is. Is the business aspect of it and I guess you know the trend in legitimate businesses are. For bigger ones swallow up smaller ones and NB even bigger ones swallow up those. Is there consolidation of either power or war. Control of all this with with that it would -- well run organization. Or did does 19 -- buy the other -- kills him and everybody that's associated with him her. I'm into business where they make up the rules as they go. You know what -- -- internationally -- it once upon a time it was them Medellin cartel that was the big Colombian drug great talent and the ones who -- -- business well. -- -- and -- distinctive drugs in the United States the largest consumer of drugs. So they admit that they've ruled them through Mexico. While now Mexican people see that -- you look at the amount of -- these argument that we that we don't need that. -- import these things from the air will get them from another source global -- them ourselves. And -- that is the transit nation. That the power shifts into Mexico. Some time now we have -- awful. A -- of cartels. And and ended that familiar in the Gulf Cartel this simple click on the word as -- held at Tijuana cartel. And and so that the power and shifted from Columbia. It's a Mexico. And I used to be the golden triangle it's it's it's -- if Afghanistan. Producing ninety's plus percent of the world's Carol. I've been hearing in Chicago. We we have torn down on the project buildings there along the lake front. And as a consequence. The organization of the drug business to be bank buildings of one project building would be controlled by one game and then next building by another one. Only toward these high rises down because they were so dilapidated. It -- disbursed these gang members from different buildings. In a little rise housing standards throughout the city so it is now estimated Chicago has some 200000. Gang members. With with no border or organizations seeking have met a gangster disciple and Latin -- in an insane maniac. On the same block when it was but who's in control -- crowd. So they -- they're shortening each other so we have splintered. The the control of drugs here in Chicago rather than consolidated. And it is made epidemic used biblically after the gangster disciples that at some 30000. I think gang members went with a annual revenues exceeding Walgreens. And and we have now now dispersed those folks throughout the city. And it's have a this is over the fourth of July weekend in Chicago we had 84. Let's see two people shot in 84 hour. This past week and it just ended when we had. We have two dozen people -- One killed one shooting incident. Seven people shot the same thing. A -- an eleven year old Russia and the cross fighter this this morning's paper with a three year old guy. That violence is epidemic and the only thing the politicians and preachers here in Chicago are talking about. As we need gun control we need assault weapon control we need more (%expletive) we need better education better teachers we're gonna put. 5000 people and 500 quarters -- the worst corner in Chicago to stem the epidemic. And what we have we have more violence. Because every solutions -- discussed or considered in Chicago. He export looks a modification. Of drug policy. And drug policy. Prohibition is the mother of the -- Jim and good but we're almost out of time and I went askew. Just being pragmatic about it being honest in and -- and politics out of it -- and you whatever. Kind of emotional feeling you have are our choices. Eat their legalizing drugs or dealing with more and more violence is that it so you got to pick one or the other and whenever. Affects either has to society. -- Thank you Chad appreciate your time ansari we hand him more and I hope will we talk to you again. Thank you surgeons here -- or prosecutors spokesperson with. Law enforcement against prohibition -- that love to hear from you know. -- 260187. -- creates XX and 89087. Are those are choices legalizing drugs or increasing violence. Is there anything in between and if not. Which would you rather have the effects of on society legalize drugs. Or more and more violence you -- colony know we come back Tommy Tucker WWL I Tommy Tucker -- WL 93327. And conversation continues. In nine games and -- here. And I don't know if you're kind of inflicted this -- you don't. Believe the premise of it but I think just look and added pragmatically in and actually in trying to lead the emotion out of it I look at it two ways we can either deal with increasing. Continued at the same level or increasing violence if you continue. To outlawed drugs. Or you can look at the effects -- society. Of legalizing drugs. Either way it's gonna have an impact and I guess I'm asking you. Which would you rather. Which is better. And are those your only two choices so I would love to hear from -- NT six -- 187803866. 8890 -- having my opinion is that. Those are our only two choices. And I think. Rather than an innocent people getting killed 101000 a year in Mexico 57000. Kids fleeing across the border. It would be better to regulated. Taxes just like you do with alcohol. And I think that would make the violence -- -- just like it. Did with prohibition and alcohol of course there are. Problems of society a lot of families torn apart old DWIs. -- lord knows what else with alcohol but we've deemed as a society that it's better to have that legal. I would guess then I have the violence Kevin. So -- joins us right now director. These Smart approaches to marijuana Sam former advisor to three presidential. Administration's -- morning cannon. I'm I'm well thank you you heard. I guess my preamble there -- and -- wrong with a premise to have a faulty set of conditions there. Well look I mean people again and cricket ball like. Economy. Drug at -- actually legalize or cursory. I should reject well. The issue -- legal age problem with that and up by more than one race. Yet on the issue of violence actually want market pretty -- Carol less than sticking -- -- the cartel. Oregon because. Frankly we grow much better -- -- -- US. Are expected to much by the issue. What it would do you really create another commercial industry and other big tobacco industry and I think about it from that we really watch out for. We have much our heart and are without all back won the world we want illegal drug and it. But I guess that's my question are people. Use and drugs anyway they can get them in and in terms of our problem solving yes you know and trying to create a false dichotomy and to -- in my opinion. I thought between increasing violence narco violence if you wanna call it that. Or legalizing drugs because of the so called war on drugs though it was were our choices so tell me how. Actually not weaken now we know -- institutions in the other -- education but -- -- the economic. Law and order. That's going to be a lot better than legalizing cocaine or -- or are well I remember is to an -- to this country. Note though -- are the idea that they're still -- not they're not gonna -- in this country we legalize are gonna come at a much higher rate. Less than 9% of Americans use -- you're right people get -- beauty. 9% of American you're used you couldn't look at drug occurred at 60% for alcohol 25%. Bigger well. -- -- legality of the law to do would use and I don't want a public health disaster here just because we think we're gonna take a little money from the cartel the -- gonna keep going there under the legal right to tell the people the government won't tell your -- delegates met with ten year old they will. Armed they're gonna diversified illegal Haitian relief -- -- bullet. Is it proper presented at a local. ELA and selling a ten year old is certainly a dramatic example -- -- -- any numbers on how many ten year olds are using crystal meth now. A back and -- minutes to open a -- like a little bit more. Why are legal battle drug alcohol tobacco even -- age even within. OL campaign telling kids not to drink for the 21 and -- not. Really ever even with that the rate tribute among kids are much harder than -- okay. To read it. Just how many rather than legalization education would be the key to keep in two weeks off the drugs but you got you just said we have a lot of educational campaigns when it comes out all the kids -- I pointed out during a good job that it happened. What we do government. And still we have the hybrid tribute that Michael or even with the best education campaign to draw the legal. Commercially available -- Campbell being marketed at a and -- sharks. Good luck to what what are urgent he went with our road safety net for. And I'm not trying to argue in China and -- -- but it's not legal. For people that are underage so I would ask you gone back to the ten year old accused in math that's not use and it now but what if it was legal. It's gonna be regulated by the government they are and cell and I'm just trying to -- to the -- here they wouldn't sell it to a ten year old. But the black market woods. Ed in the ten year old -- now. -- it would be normal like that no they don't but it's legal they're much more like what he or at. It's normal life bachelor -- a commercial like we'll look at every sport major sporting event. And she -- cultures are mean and what a normal life and your culture this is something that become. Much more likely for people to use and so what I worry about it -- addiction start okay. That you youth trying to find me an -- to started using their current court. Further developed after each 25. And -- But -- the start young legal pot and the point is what it is legal. You're much more likely to use. And it's going to be left or right to young people we've seen what the tobacco industry to -- I don't think we should be doing their marijuana or any other -- Because I mean we should be -- people gala opening mean we shouldn't get treatment we should get them all by keeping it illegal actually helped her for -- -- 84 shootings in Chicago over the fourth of July weekend we just said some New Hampshire you're very familiar with -- James Chirac on. He says only need to get this sand is so legalized in and regulate drugs I would just askew again -- trying to create a false dichotomy ages. Think it through I don't know how you get from. If you talk about the drug industry of 500 billion dollars a year here that was his estimate I don't know how you get from. The violence that they're -- over this. -- without taking -- the financial incentive. -- first. And that. Doesn't mean. Streak -- it. Less than 10%. From 9% of Americans use the truck. If we legalize that we can expect the -- two rival -- to back. You wanna do something about you know I don't count in the sky and an extra. Year. One and education. And -- on top real. One so you know access to adequate I'll call eight. Go to these communities the and directly. That they think that more drugs or community. Actually look at liquor and out legal drugs right now. We know the legal industry's target -- that's what we -- and liquor stores. In pork communities of color than we do. It in the country. Because. It's because. People don't open market order or aren't. Addiction because of the other life much -- are dealing with these issues and the the legal industry -- so. I really don't think -- America's interest legal cocaine. Industry just because to. Lower violent other -- And were injured in lowering it should we do that is going to be like market that even legal. -- black market lower. Hey arteries it indeed for people that it. 100 and the and the black mark under a legal right -- your market were brightening in Colorado. You look. Is legal there are going their. Way governor. Can win big on -- it was legal everywhere and be seen in the home now. But what. Like what they're put away this circuit in their local talent that would be you know becoming an. They wouldn't be a future they would continue to be the electorate -- on it won't be able by the legal market. And undercutting the legal price it'll bring all public health problem helping -- other kind of you know. What are we gonna handle the election are we going to be able to deal -- -- schools were trying to get it to you or your school and yet we're gonna say well actually here 820 want you know. We're gonna mixture into drugs are legal interleague. It unfortunately the product for being called -- -- economies of prohibition. Incarceration I think we can do better and I think there. Have you ever done heroin are meant. To. Would you hand it was legal after you were an adult. How much are probably not to let I grew up in the -- were legal -- would -- it. -- attribute to -- I'm sure but look a hundred years ago for drugs were legal. And how -- drugs were used much more regularly including the opiate by the way including cocaine cocaine would give it aptly and and and and proudly advertised by Coke company -- -- hundred years ago -- actually -- to prop up our what we are normal at. Earlier you challenged needed to come up with -- -- to news. Developed a substance abuse problem before their brains reformed and and damage to think -- in terms of street violence and in kids that are making a lot of money with no education selling drugs is there anyway. You can make the same argument that in essence there addicted to quick easy money so it would be hard to get them interested. In an education nor in Houston or -- be paying on the finish because I always and I think there's a problem in that. A lot of kids look at it is poverty or you're going to be. A rock star movie star and have fancy suvs -- -- and you know fifty grand 92 decent. Like if you trying to write papers aren't Republicans. Well I don't disagree -- fortunately you. Complete quick fixes the -- -- I don't agree. Commercial culture unfortunately as -- you know it's superlative start define America and younger generation back. That's another reason why would legalize these things would be more accurate and are now. Thanks. -- -- error weather -- in the you know kids are off and after that we need to. But that's not a reason to give up on our educational. And then but you know Tuesday and saying I don't think that the -- to -- You know well we don't focus on. You know education -- culture housing alternative activities. I think when when when -- those were a lot of those kids would actually choose that unfortunately right now -- -- -- -- -- -- Ted and I appreciate you time and I appreciate you entertaining an answering my questions. You -- become -- on Kevin saga director of Smart approaches to marijuana is as it's otherwise known Sam a former advisor three. Presidential administrations so you've heard. Both sides tonight and you know I don't know that there's a right or wrong here I think -- -- He says it doesn't come down to either that the violence or. Legalization. I think it does I think so long as it did there's at financial financial incentives there. That the violence is gonna continue and it's gonna get worse. So I think the question is in my mind at least are you willing to accept the cost society of the violence -- are you willing to accept. The cost to society of of drugs being legal. And I guess the other question is. Do we really have a choice I know. When it comes a bath salts and so forth we've had DEA agents Ellis. That is the part of the problem is actually when it comes to China because the financial incentive is there. That they'll make one illegal and then these very Smart although misdirected chemist in China. They're just the formula she just. -- a word tweak but that's what they do ever so slightly so that chemically it's not illegal and they can continue to -- I'd like to know do you think -- to 60187. -- 3866889087. In part of the discussion. If they are legalize drugs do you think it's gonna lead more people. To do it do a Mars they're forbidden fruit and -- -- -- we're well it's legal it's it's a -- challenge coming back to the W. I'm -- -- WL talking about. Legalizing drugs and the violence narco violence is being called those kids streaming across aborted their parents. I'm sending them to be safer 101000 people a year are killed in Mexico do drug violence and after the war on drugs that cost 400 million dollars a year. The quality of heroin has gone from 2% puritan 90% year. And I never in my life thought I would be say you know what you got legalize drugs but. I don't know -- do I really don't -- seems to be the exact model of alcohol. And if I get into news. And any Ambien selfish here because you never ever nobody if you think that your kids don't have access to drugs. You're kidding yourself you're fooling yourself I don't care that is the most exclusive. Private school in the city or the worst public school in the city either way. If they wanted to -- get it that's why I feel as though the the defense has it come from within and not without. And I guess my my selfish rationale here is. I don't think my daughter whatever -- drugs because really she was raised although you don't know and she could get them now she wanted to. But I do you know there's a fear of her being hit by -- stray -- seat tell me -- Mississippi hi you're on WWL. I got it going good. Until they disagree with -- it it comes out a couple. If you leave alive. Did you actually pay out more money on -- And and it's obvious that the crown would work what -- And Clinton and another bank to the -- If you look at it you can. And I'm not saying -- give you what about which you know you can give out that it's -- -- you should you shouldn't out wore a -- if you know if that there urgent. But I'd tell the difference. It is a textured says to and that's what drives me crazy about this as you can find any numbers to make any argument what it says did you see the spike in teen homelessness. In Colorado since a legalization of marijuana people and move and -- and I am not working and I would suggest they're moving their because it's legal. And they were getting high and not working at home so I don't know that you can necessarily attribute that to drugs music. Right and and and you know and that you know you know we need -- -- and and that's. But you know it's obvious solution is like. You Cold War there it again oh yeah you want it really and keep -- as it is gone into that you got a bit. I just think if you gonna be logical about it. You have to say well we have two choices we can either legalize it and take away the profit incentive for the criminals or weekend. Deal with the deaths that are current violence result of but I don't think there's any middle ground I think our side which one you want you -- and a tolerant and the next -- And one more that you can't legalize the -- out of Iraq and you know you can. You can -- -- without -- and and LL OK PX KB Africa so you don't have -- -- rabbit. And -- of what to believe. Well they did that with cigarettes you know back in -- day with the Marlboro man and everything else and would be interesting if that approach go into what one of the guests -- an -- remember. If they take that approach with alcohol if you. If you would take the commercials off the TV that make it seem like it you know I can't be a party can't be good looking in can't be in a pool unless you drink beer which is probably just the opposite. Mark I appreciate you -- really do. Thanks list and have a good day will be back under the W I Tommy Tucker thanks everybody for your calls and your texts. And garlands coming up next got a great think tank you'll be talking about buying an electric car. Will be talking about maintaining the new flood protection we have around the city can we afford to keep it up. Thanks so we will talk to you tomorrow morning at six bright and early years that it W.

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