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WWL>Topics>>8-4-14 11:10am Garland: on the EPA's regulations on coal

8-4-14 11:10am Garland: on the EPA's regulations on coal

Aug 4, 2014|

Garland talks with Mary Lee Orr of the Louisiana Environmental Action Network, Jim Patterson of LABI, and Ross Eisenberg of the National Association of Manufacturers about what the EPA's new regulations on coal will mean for Louisiana.

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Automatically Generated Transcript (may not be 100% accurate)

Welcome back this hour we're going to be talking about. Environmentalists. And EP AD and and business sore and but the tip over this. Player and to reduce. Coal fired plants. And -- pollution. That they cause. And a number of business organizations. Have come back acting instead. If we win this plan goes into that. When the appear you put -- and they new standard. Once -- basically. Out of the smokestack. Who wins in this culture estimated to be of 53 billion dollar loss in products and services that annually. I think it's 1161000. Plus -- job job equivalent. The review -- reporting 32%. Increase. In the health sold natural gas prices. So if it's good it's a concern that we often times here. When it comes to. We need to reduce pollution and we need to improve the climate. And the two sides fighting each other ever get to hear from both sides on the environmental side we have Mary -- Warrick elected director. A -- to -- -- arm election that board merrily welcomed the shore appreciative -- -- You -- in college pleasures here we keep thank you so much for having me. And or explain to me what what is the EPA proposing specifically. Are all -- -- do so. There's not a rule that's been proposed -- they're still reviews viewing via. Technical information so we would what is this about. -- about proposing more stringent national ambient air quality ethnic. For greater level. -- really into it and they make her. -- -- Cleaner safer for all that and I think as we get into the passion. And the dangers pollution and it'd be to be regulated. And industry seems -- I'll talk about money. And we -- talk about health care and health costs to people. I think I miss the -- what ever happened to the hole in the ozone layer. You have that other -- -- I know it's still there unfortunately. And and that's how we have to deal with the Carolina I've lived in an area that was not happening for decades. And we got Bob and I have such a tale to tell you because it's really meant something at the beginning industries that -- it was. Killer tree into. It was -- and transport. It was wild -- that would -- and imagine that it wasn't we unfortunately had to go to court we want every time. They can't lower the ozone standard and -- -- and other. I'm EPA push to lower ozone in that can only because for -- in my opinion. We do win we'd do it in other countries don't you -- Billion tons -- room we've done so so shows. If I remember month figured correctly. Charlotte is building a coal fired plant every we in that country. Do we make too much of a different trying to use cleaner. I think we deal I think for unthinkable to us as an example on it like to thank. And ballot and then compare. And sustainability and a better future here and hopefully when they see that good environment and the economy can -- together. It's been lowered the ozone standard and not catastrophic which is what it seems like the association of manufacturers and saying that I think other -- -- take note. But you know this is not Internet resources are fine. Looking at right now a lot of -- can't -- out there. All right let's let's take our first break. We're worth thinking about business lose -- suits you can do listens in in Korea than. Rules for we're gonna have ball on net from some -- human factors. Right getting good new rules by the CPU being drawn up concerning. Ozone pollutants come and of this -- to be reduced what do you think it was called -- 60187. -- anywhere in the country toxic sedated and zero itself. Our daily -- Oprah uttered jaguar opinion poll that sell or we asked. If EPA reduce the emissions from coal fired plant -- and take big economic hit and lost jobs and salaries. 100%. Did so for Thursday. -- -- Did you zones fusion business and industry -- something different. -- in the cultural human Dubuque took the three billion dollar walls and products and services through. -- report to -- 1171000. -- dropped the root for reporting. 32%. Increase and household -- -- prices. On the environmental side -- merely moral of this executive director -- -- and environmental action network. -- thought to have some pretty big numbers. And has been able to -- our problem in. The back that. Well -- while running at what they're really looking down addressed that the National Academy of Sciences recommended that the EPA. Taking part the end result of ozone exposure into account. Was developing these standards but but let's get back there. -- again it's -- community people get really frustrated because -- have been hearing is tired old message for decades every EP tries. To protect the public in the environment with regulations industry. Sometimes our state government even -- that it will kill jobs and destroy their business. Police seen time and time again that not only that not true. But that increased investment debt facility upgrades emission control technology and cleaner alternative. Creates great jobs and improve the bottom line. And you can't put any price on -- what I've talked about over the years is public health because ozone. And it has so many health effects deep lung function decrease and -- the respiratory symptoms increased doctor visits elderly up and gas. -- and I seen that myself over the years that people also. Premature death Pakistan. Typical breeding and cardiovascular harm. I just a few things can happen when I was -- -- Dubai. Well he would go -- Missouri is I have who told her fourteen year ago published chart today it's so. Understand what good -- better news. Mentally doubles and a Christmas this confuse me it would happen after Fukushima. Germany. Said. Well. We've we can't pronounce nuclear. So -- put. Player in play for over thirty year period to do away with almost fall. Observe their coal fired and nuclear power plants. And they went -- tone of solar and geothermal. Wind and windmill. What's happened. You you can Google it and see it. Businesses and Germany are saying wait and that are -- cost of weed to we can't compete group. Your Joe's -- -- -- and from some treatment collection say in. We're losing jobs things are getting more expensive people can afford their utilities. It isn't an example of what we're concerned about because. China is in Indio -- Creating in the pure play -- after the big sold Germany easily. You love it that's at stake it bought Garland -- it. But I have to bring. Screwed. I think that's wonderful but we're talking about is positive change. Admirals on the whole field right we're talking about living in a place for -- unhealthy levels of ozone particularly on hot funny days. I think when he talked about Kabul where we're actually talking about a dinosaur fuel. And that we need to be sustainable. As a country need the -- toward -- renewable solar wind and water at -- people who are lots articles I am happy to say. A work in on those alternatives. I certainly. -- you say about the other places but I think today were talking about. I have -- can't remember what he'll PD. -- have a board members who have actually check and see if there is healthier and healthier whether or not they can leave their home. Still we're talking about an abstract problem we're talking about something that affects people every day that we have liked to have to think about. -- they have a respiratory problem yeah it was sick today comedic. And I don't have to tell any parent is that in the emergency room with a child has asthma what it's like and how frightening is and Posner. When it's high increases here probability of happening at that -- and so that's really what -- one issue with that. Probably is silly question but go over the users to be a Bruce said. With somebody in the industry that she liked to have little good communications. With and and suggested. That if we put the man in the moon a man on the moon blocked seven years. When boom we didn't even have a -- did -- and it would it would leave the pretty severe -- other than rocket weaponry -- It via suggested that better we all got together booking environment outside with the money raised -- industry's side. And slowly started. In building devices to lower pollution. We would have beens or new technologies. To create new jobs to sell to other countries like. Computers. In the steam engine and etc. Have ever been with thought. You know another great question is gonna come as a big shot and it's currently between the killer as I have a lot of the advocates and industry people. And and I respect them a lot and we have had discussions about lowering pollution and it like everything there's some folks are very I feel progressive. They're open and that's sort of conversation and then there's some politics. Maybe advocate -- the dinosaurs that. Really changes very difficult it's very threatening for them. They don't see how it can. -- have a positive effect on them yes we have like -- -- more that were hoping to do it. I think sometimes. You don't agree you as saying that they would want to sit down with the that's not true. I think it is a community problem -- industry government communities. And we need to solve -- together. -- and let me put your concerns that the use. I haven't had -- an hour and 26 minutes so this is between you and me. -- That you can -- either. At. The against the from abroad and it is somebody -- and reporter out there whether we have put -- warned. This sentence is one of the news servers -- in the Baton Rouge jury they have struggled for yours and yours and yours through and two million increasingly. Stricter or losing ozone standard. Have. Yes but again they actually happening make progress and I'm very pleased about that. I don't think between -- -- my second silent Portland disease and I. Brought them little com he's wonderful now but I was voting is more susceptible to. Ammonia and other respiratory problems that actually correlate that to read when I became involved in this issue and I said I would do -- for six months I've really got involved. About air quality issues that I found out there was unhealthy to breathe seventeen times that your mother -- him on the level honorable intent that you know I've adored. I thought like I had a decent and about it and and work on the -- consent until late eighties podtacular I was twelve by the way. It I did so well you know I sort of I've been struggling and had they done it in the struggle calls his. -- job as soon it will -- I think that's sometimes change is scary threatening to people but -- -- They probably at -- their award I don't know struggles to right -- it's and we had a good quarter it was with it that way. And then what did you -- they were able to move forward but we are pleased that we make progress it's really important for everyone. Workers aren't here in the special safety box. You know two communities don't have a magic fence around an industry doesn't have a magic sense. So we really want everyone to be safe and it really -- about unit -- it's not about the bottom line is how many dollars and people want jobs apps so that we are by they would say jobs. What job that they feel like they're gonna go from and it -- have a long healthy life but we were talking about life expectancy it would appear. -- there and -- we want everybody to lift the 8486. And the very healthy way. The question does this mean compute to. This brings concerning for a acting a law on all four from the bright and should be and there are big picture -- scored. But tangible contiguous or. They're been -- for years and they're welcoming. A big assumes no tangible says he has and the drills goes through this -- the exact or for. That abuse -- his concern about. And probably more importantly to everybody. If everybody gets to do -- Britain's brings wants to do. Our natural gas prices will go. Back won't. The question means that the organization helped communities to leave that unity and take him any -- We're helping them. Educate themselves make your decisions and they don't want fracking the majority of them do not seem to want fracking in. Think -- -- we're here to back from lot and that -- for bodily effects of your -- raised its southern hills not proper. I'm really concerned and all I think people think about for acting like one and well. It can actually look over in north Louisiana Shreveport area there's more than 3000 well. And I'm playing devil's advocate I have people who say. Within their organization to talk like them not to concern. Other people that are very concerned and Josh -- he did gasoline and wanted to get -- their job I recommend everywhere in the -- Is a friend and he really good out there at the risk and the price that she can pay for fracking a year community. And could be seen that I think it's pretty sobering. Sellout where happened at -- -- vote is as much as we can't. You know but can't. Come from was their decision -- -- -- -- -- Earlier -- always. Pleasure to have you on the show thank you so much for into. A light thank you so much -- report -- -- with even further from the aids is now. Are covered right back or get the industry's side of this talk to -- in natural selections from the men factors. And Louisiana. I think to only be coming up. Our arrived here moreover figured about they had loaned it to Louisiana since lose billions of dollars in. Economic activity 1002 jobs 80% of the -- coal fired plants will be forced to shut down. All of this sued the EPA lowers the federal ozone pollution standard. And these were reports coming I'll. National association of manufactures. And -- here and groups whose fusion business and industry. And shrinking up we've Jim Patterson vice president of government relations for -- Jim welcome to shore perjured stunt. Good morning on my attitude -- -- Eisenberg. Natural association -- factors vice president of energy and resources policy. Ross welcomed the show. Jim let me start Gibson do what looking at the EP today. Hasn't proposed rule yet that. No it is not but it is contemplating one and it has suggested this idea. A part per billion as low as sixty. Currently it -- 75 and as has been indicated bite the -- Study and report -- this would be devastating for the state of Louisiana. And had Ross -- argued. So yet it's this is real Matt hey did this week we we actually did what we believe the electorate. Analysis of this regulation -- on and and the real problem is that. Most of the low hanging fruit to control that we put in overtime has already been done that's what we. And -- that I don't have that much smog anymore and that's an hour at a point where we really don't know frankly EPA doesn't even know what the controls -- the -- Actually implement this standard quite as well and it stayed -- -- Louisiana. Extra extra hard because opening act and bring New Year's state hasn't cheap energy and things of that nature so. It's really really bad you're looking at billions of dollars in lot gross state product candidly about. Over a 100000 jobs that are hanging in the balance there 2300. Dollars that. That that the average -- -- -- in Louisiana would otherwise it. And not food and other things that are going to be spending comply with the regulations and an -- that it AKA can impact at 80% of the equal part out when the collapse. After all the other regulation not most of the rest now so. You guys you've got to hit extra hard by -- and down you know -- manufacturers. We're right in the middle that's one numbered account back and we want to make sure that that whatever regulations are put into place. Yet they should protect the environment we all clear it clean air clean water but you gotta. He got to preserve the economy is -- we either one manufacturer now. Did on stage with the EPA rule is that you know how to do this suit -- did understand that our legal right to rules. It's down to -- because it really is so in that nationwide. And what our economists did actually win and it looked at all the daddy peace plan out there EPA overall nationwide has recognized about it. Third. The controls that we would need to put in place. Actually comply with this thing. The other two thirds are what are called unknown control that would EPA ultimate calm and in control and it because they don't know what they are. So I'm really what you know it an EPA did announces that a couple years back on this one than and they say Iraq at the same place. Where we differ from EPA is they just they kind of global the cost of those under control but we had our economists view was. OK let's let's that you take a look at what that really really have to do to get that. -- that ozone man up and down and -- run out of options pretty quick hit it really becomes just shutting things down though. Power plants factories. Then you move in that trucks and -- trapped then and farm equipment. And and then of a eventually did some light trucks -- cars I mean you really have to go to bat speed. And start scrapping thing. Before you can really before you can get some of the that -- the environment where -- level the national parks actually would be in the penalty box. -- for a -- EPA does blow it in the figured out. Joseph little of it take governor Rick can work come right back of the -- brigade seven mortified to reopen. It's very good pursuing we have book. Two major organizations. Loser and so institution of business and in -- for and we have their friends whose -- human factors. I think this is is and a government and so -- tell me of these statistics are right. If the EPA. Comes in and and and and forces or not forces they draw. -- -- laws that hurt our energy sector. We could be losing billions of jobs here in and literally over a 100000 jobs. And in Africa for a utility bills would go up so. Considering -- considering this abruptly considers this is an energy state. A little double bureau pretty drug war opinion poll and outs if -- reduces the action from coal fired plants. We'll resume and take bigger economic hit in Los jobs and so -- 79%. Say no. Not that surprising to me and granted. Definitely enough it's the Big Apple definitely -- official -- we've Jim Patterson removed from only deal and rolls Eisenberg. Vice president energy and resource policy. National suits fusion movement -- -- also duke when I look at this little purple. -- wonder. If it. Part of people are saying you know. Are remembering the beginning of this and our middle movement manufacturing. Businesses can kill and -- -- it. The car manufacturers. Said these regulations on pollution gonna catalyst and it didn't. Do you think. There's a little out now when when we see these scanners that -- You know why that's an excellent question and I think 1 of the am one of the things that worked against manufacturers over time that we do it. I mean we have been able to adapt -- the same time reaching. We're reaching. A point with these regulations where they really are going too far and I just don't think there's much we can do about it that the example of that though. The Mercury will be enough for power plant a couple of years ago utility man actor Matt. Mercury toxic regulation. EPA the time and a lot of the same thing it did it that you just that which is. Well you know initially that the industry can hurt too much in an and they never ride in it that way around 85 megawatt. Coal fired. The deal will shut them. We're now look at the numbers that are about ten times that. So over if he -- he gave a lot. Called by capacity across the country can put that in the regulation. So while it happened right in the respect in the -- Pretty recently been very very wrong and understating economic -- and activist. At the big reason we did this study we we actually act that the EPA on Thursday at that day. You know we're doing -- -- -- that the look at the -- that caught up at in the look at. What you EPA need to do it make it the better record -- come out the better regulation. Ran against regulation is one of them at the balance between economic protection and environmental protection. Yes absolutely it is the it is. The balance and I think to that there did need to be recognition on the part of of your listeners that will we moved from a 75 parts per billion dollar level. Down to something in the neighborhood of sixty. It puts -- Louisiana's. Areas like Baton Rouge and New Orleans. Inning non attainment position as the EPA calls it. Quite frankly. Baton Rouge area has been struggling in terms of a meeting the 75 parts per billion requirement. And only just recently has been able to manage to do that I think we've been very fortunate that we. We had a fairly mild summer. So that we've not been -- struggling like we have in the past the can't count on mild Summers. Going out and and essentially if you bring it down to say it sixty parts per billion level. Then the entire state of Louisiana. Becomes a non attainment area. Not payments zone. Right now the best. Area in Louisiana is somewhere around Monroe. And there at 62 parts per day and so they wouldn't be able to to meet the requirements anymore. When you can't meet those requirements. The result is that. A lot of times the EPA. How would start to impose much more expensive. Permit processes. For the for the companies that are seeking to locate their plants there is going to definitely be an impact and it's going to impact on on jobs. Often else's question to both sides who were -- duke with the environment goes on in the percent power. Where and when you guys talked to environmentalists when you've talked to. Government officials and particularly EP day. Did you ever say that would. China building the coal fired plant every week or every month. We could stand overheads and producing energy. And between China and India would make any difference. I didn't drop I'll take that so I actually said that to the folks in the White House about three months ago. They'd kind of shook their heads is that there's somebody else trying to deny that this is -- problem and to look. I'm not only might not denying that the problem I actually believe we need to do something about it but we need to do it on a global scale. And there didn't seem to be the same sort of recognition of that and I would've hoped. If we it would seem to me -- we couldn't read somewhere in the middle we could come up pushing new technology. That could make some money where it -- and then. Do what everybody wants but the only -- I've heard with the troops that I have talked to on the show is that -- were gonna set. The example. In the in the world follows. But Germany -- after Fukushima. They didn't Wear -- seventeen of their nuclear power plants. And they decided they were gonna reduce emissions by 95%. But 25 day. And they're getting killed business wise and industry wise. And the utility bills are going through the roof. Did does anybody reported that is okay it's been tried. I think that's think that the very very good point Garland and and and it is the problem is it. As it brought said that you know we are trying. In in the business sector. Not to do what we can't we want to we want clean air clean water just as much as as the next guy business people know that that's important. But it's about hitting a balance and believing -- somehow the rest of the world is going to follow suit just because we're doing it. Is that I think a little bit pollyannish. And -- -- -- go back to -- my first bush and a -- the opposing sides including the government ever sit down Wednesday. That if we could reduce water over. At the same time is making new widgets. You'd get what you want we get a new products that bring more jobs and big or economy is that just. A naive thought. Well I think it does go back to that the point of Ross made earlier about the unknown controls in this is the big problem for business. They they ought to reach a certain standard but they're really not sure just how to go about the -- getting there. And and I haven't been real good quite honestly this administration. -- sitting down with business and industry to discuss the things in advance. They have a certain goal in mind mania. They are going to be two to achieve it. From 2000 -- 2013. -- Garland the the EPA. He's -- seventeen. Of the thirty costliest. Rules. That that have hit business and industry. Seventeen out of thirty. And I think it indicates that that this is an agency that is is is may be operating on steroids. It has a particular agenda. And it is a problem to the business sector because. When they come out -- they -- we think you can fix this with some some of unknown control. -- that it paralyzes the business community we don't know how to proceed. We don't know what those controls are going to be we don't know how costly to going to be and it's very difficult to plan and again. And -- -- you appreciated the call in Thailand have agreed. Come right back double BO brigades ebony and more the -- Well covered the actual -- should French Quarter residents. After daybreak extra cops who protects citizens and tourists and more stable. A video games -- -- moral -- the -- that.

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