We're still thinking about the police were still -- -- about the retirement of a liberal purposes please shoot. And the possible foreigners from Michael -- that those we should certainly -- -- visual book. When the bear suits possession is nine tenths of laws and -- -- important to -- we have Harrison. And have achieved that certainly secure is very good treatment position. We're gonna have a little something to the discussion. Election boat docked -- short sleeved weather which criminal judgment to doing. Well two. As a breeding. About. -- And -- as soon. Crime in New Orleans you know the gluten thing goes and all of which the relation to other areas that they the computer pictures similar. And -- album came up with the Rialto California. They have gone to police we're hearing cameras. And cameras. And I think they've been batted for over a year and so far more. The use of force by the police department as the club and by 60%. And complaints against police have declined ED 8%. On her -- quickly. About the going -- apart and so forth and theory cursory search. Is it's very expensive. Because you got to store all those images in the Cairo and and the only two major companies to do it is who right now. The cameras and -- bird experts about the report and books peace blood storage management of that data. Quite expensive and so forces can reported because. Doctor sharp again thank you state will honor what -- what do you think body cameras good idea bad idea or we don't know. Well that the thing. I think 11 invention police is that you can defend yourself against bogus allegations. In a lot of these two years or minor touching kind. Complaints. It's easier to defend yourself. The heart of the matter is what does it mean to have high integrity we've sports. And I think it's internalized the values are we giving up this is far away we don't trust him more troops to work for us. If we say the only we're entrusted -- monitor your behavior. Right and that's not a good thing. And the select. Police officers in training them to act with the integrity. Now you need in some cases checks you know and missed that. They were just giving up on character. Erode erode -- just form on. Integrity of the state of art through law enforcement and and that's what we concluded in a report. So let's talk about the giant elephant in the room braces. And lack of trucks combination thereof. You really thing I've been here it's in the rankings and if you ever really think we have please shoot you or police force that the black community. While. You know again in some ways I thought superintendent competence and reduced to some extent bring in -- -- there were other issues that. Some of the racial polarization within the department. In any very -- -- some black. And I go to parties and go to work for different. -- you know -- he'd go out there in touch for action on wall all shades of color. And I think you know hopefully Michael -- -- have that. Style. You know in the argument you know and I did the study and -- -- -- from the bullet. And police. African American police officers has no fears of higher rates who do we force -- conclusion officers some of that has risen to where they live. And you know through the argument that having an African American. Leadership. Will reduce deadly force you're going to be disappointed. And for a variety of reasons. And in trust based on race class and very short time. You know really does know and get all of the issues in this department. You know -- they were three cartels in the eighties. From the nuggets. The Internet entrants Jackson's friends and political -- was children. And when I started teaching you know in bad time 1995. I'm -- and say we win we France likes of this you know reflect on route I would stuff that I would you set the leaders and to those actions. So you know -- and you know the one of the one of the arguments against her with -- -- complete this. That in about 2000. He took away the take home cars from someone those cartels. And the racial. Main street called cartel. On cartel was -- real. You know -- well you know the department has been so racially. Segment. And you know in part of me says that it's great we have an African an -- absolutely. Colorblind this issue and I really think that. Having an African American chief with a variety of benefits that don't wanna see -- go back to. Internal organizational segregation. -- race and there is gonna call him for them crazy which probably true. But. -- -- show that was because that was the disaster. In a variety and detail its administration would fox administration. And and I think that was cleared during my friend Warren -- administration. Absolutely -- -- little lipstick break and then come back and discusses some more go to Baltimore led us to move would come back. If the police officer and Ferguson had a pocket camera. Would we be going through what we're going to right now -- -- up via. Pencils on. -- -- -- -- -- Are welcome back we contender -- -- -- we're talking about police were talking about the situation with the -- position that pollution. Talking about police and so on ports in the city. And a lower in pursuing -- -- real to California and a couple of other mediums it's cities. And they've put cameras on the officers and the use of force by officers and it's been their pro cup years. Has declined by 60%. And citizen complaints against police though 88%. Peter -- troops -- where the -- macro issues that -- in upstate new Gordon a -- yeah I'm done working or were hampered with a gonna put -- escorted -- -- I definitely will -- excited that there's dangers to -- room to go out on court street and really put -- on -- I'm really think. Go to real okay. Do you support them to a -- things over Q. Is up and and what I asked you this early. You know some pros and -- soon. If you put him well and he ruled -- and would. Ferguson have occurred if that policeman at the camera. The first old Rialto. You know the use of force the shoving putts from his moped off the pavement in and out is not at all and they it is community. And that would -- about the coverage with Ferguson. Is the legal standard for gently forced -- tooth in his. -- -- -- Law case offense in the two cultures that are going to tell -- circumstances force with a reasonable not at best. Alternative. And the second is congress ten -- which has realized its danger. Or no interest in that for now here's where it gets tough. Can American go inside your -- the standard is reasonable. So how does the camera. If you execute someone how does the judge the reasonableness of the police. Now Newton police officers used force. So. You know it's not a -- ready to get in there beaten it yet. That the camera. You know and cameras. Law depending on -- -- prospective. You see different kinds of things with that noise I'm an expert in the series courts thanks. So you know so there's a limited utility. Now yes the question. You know would you do prevent. It's an assumption. That the officer with this outrage -- rule would be deterred from. Where you'll. The the other view is a complex interaction occurred. In the Indy shop thing was for reflects. Now with a -- guidelines or not. That's not -- term greet the news -- -- and -- therapies. And nutrients would deter meaning that if you and your term and you -- real bright but not deterring. He cares if you're like danger you can guys can kill me. Or another week off. The bigger issue there if you -- the supplies -- hoodlums. Is two million cars and police off this morning very experienced lieutenant great point. And he -- chocolate -- disarm the -- -- -- one dollar store. You know that if you have two off. One. The gentleman would not have you know he'd do and certain deterrent too much less likely to. Complies with the -- Requests. And the second thing is having them back or -- critical issue. More than cameras might be better deterrent. To. Excessive use of force. Might be a better determine who we have cameras and police cars now and that doesn't seem to be a problem of getting into policeman's. Group. One that's going to attack them. Washington the silly video shows on television the reality shows seem to show pretty clearly. Whether policeman hit somebody perch or somebody who completes troopers -- it it just seems like if I'm thinking about setting your -- own fire. And you pull out your iPhone and start filming. Even if I'm doing is Joseph Cora doing it is I don't like Q I -- second right. Read the isn't that good deterrent. And and and again you know. And there are some argument forward but the use of cameras and its ubiquitous to -- Rodney King case for those -- first time really video was the alternative story. But. You know and again and the the bigger arguments that false accusations can be dealt. It also dynamics of the influence retraining. Can use that as an after action to swell. And you know I just worry about yeah we're gonna americanize this and you know aren't these cops can industrial workers of these simply. You know we're gonna watch from like Burger King you know we want from that concern ma'am before they give me your hamburger. Or -- repeat pickle how to please soliciting right now. This week Peter appreciate you being orders but we think that screw right now yeah that the public can. The courts and what ever watch shows like hawks because their perception is like across the world. Right against the wind going out for years. Demonizing the points. In Central Park in nine years away that trials -- two you know 2010 quadrant and there. And the political establishment has contributed to. So you know was -- excludes these these issues -- writes for the point. But at the -- gives -- political football. We. Alternative bullying them and then through a fund that reforms needed. So there's -- on this issue of trust your raising I think it's profound. I would go a little different road and we're gonna come back with -- Strange question only about two minutes. There is an organization called a non us 75 million people estimated it all over the world. No leader no headquarters no like the it's and or keep pace movement. Very. Cold in the truly public option -- That he blew up. The web site and so the whole community. Today threatened to put the police chief's son daughter and one page photograph. And the whole approach all the way. They decided okay enough with the police -- can do root for you'll -- identified the identity of the shooter. They revealed an identity it was wrong one. What I'm saying. Well our growth in this for bond -- We wouldn't -- known Ferguson was happen. 75. Million people around the world wouldn't have known burgers and it happened. Somebody's standing with a -- could -- take in the picture putters on instant Graham and have a -- world -- Can we at least we you weren't you are talking about concerns about it. On the verge. Of some -- and every little. Movement. Can be taken orchestrated by X 35 million people or at least an organization that side. What are we going as far as being able to control. -- we're trying to do well. That's great question a couple points one what you tell me it's a -- quite it I -- I don't know like -- Oh OK for assault in the Kerner Commission says of the riots in the sixties and seventies. 7220. Ethnic riots were precipitated by use of force. African American perceptions of these incidents in Kirkland conservatives -- countries different. They're very different than caucasians. The issue rightfully. The issue of the -- -- You -- these videos and people's interpretations. The chance of second wave of violence which I think everybody's worried about. He's really there I think that. The won't force that's much more sophisticated about. The youth of social media wanted to counteract you know we do a lot of press reflection. Reaching out people but the real the issue is how do you change those viral. You know perceptions. You know and then you you create a perception please let me be very unfair. You know when you look at number in this city and number of incidents appeared in one way in the -- investigative. And it's totally thought that. Let me take bring your work come right back cut by twelve and under our hero afternoon honoring Henry there -- to bring these Hedo you went to. And continued conservation about the cameras because. Because of cynical just. About complicated world issues. And how instantaneous. Communications are. It's a still argue promo highly uneducated pacers just cut you. Bit different policeman can show. I was straight from Y four. Thought he had colon or whatever. It would seem to be beneficial compared word is now. So often occurs. A bit keep my identity. Total confidence to get a movement family. And how -- approve. What happened when nobody was there would the end of the tunnel right -- rule double to America. Welcome back. We rug continue our conversation about least we've been talking or. Couple hours about ropes or -- it's. Police -- resigning yesterday potential. Michael -- some. Lieutenant commander of -- and -- possibly become the please shoot. Start to be sharp bill and Condon a stay with me through criminologist. With two and and we've started a compensation. About. Policeman wearing body cameras and we're gonna bring into this kind of solution Marjorie and Georgia's oh. The executive director of the infield you -- museum remark drew welcome back -- sure appreciate -- time. Keep -- elected to be here at elevators. A larger area -- -- When when there was talk computer before him on. And -- -- -- -- who's been doing this for a couple years police officers small cameras. And a forced by police officers declined 6% and citizen complaint against -- throw 80%. And -- would you tell me in the real -- California. The worst thing is -- that could Marines who rent and all the -- -- Policemen showed it was terrible -- not exactly like primary. Mark what are your thoughts about the cameras on leads. Alliance that you and I had this conversation before and I hit it. Many times I think. Police camp are. A wonderful way to protect both public and all for the opposite. The more information. We have about any interaction between a police officer and a member of the public. The better we all now. That the offices are in fact doing their job correctly war. When things go wrong will now. Yeah we all had this terrible concern last week when he turned down. The company turned off the body camp before she shot somebody's hand. You know I've been saying all girls -- good that people actually using them and and the risk is that option it will effect turns off. Before they do something you know and that is that the clear violation like -- come on. As long as it used properly. Stated. The way that we can all whether. Mean who who provokes lack. -- the police overstaffed or witnesses say the officer was in fact in danger the only way you know that is is with the so I think I think it's wonderful technologies on the -- proper. A lot of times. I think -- and you that fuses and trials whatever. If it's -- out that something that occurred was not in the pouring. Something off camera. I initiated what we heard but the camera and yet it is certainly appear that that that the camera. Use use to either and die because it -- and sure enough. The victim or the police. It always believed that any kind of record during complete. -- nothing is perfect. And feel like the camera can't chill -- absolutely everything is solid going to be something outside the range. Us and you know that's the risk of of any kind of record keeping. You know there's always something that's not included. But still. You know having me having the image is is better than not having them because they show more than what you would feed feed -- -- Pump blood to police cameras on the dashboard. Have those been. The bill object to vote controversy anywhere in the country. Well I can tell you that then you know what's been controversial somewhere else in the country. I thought maybe -- sealed but who. My government at all until it. This thing. The more information we have. The better off everybody is. The community. It -- this community confidence in in. It in the only eighteen now and it's the all jokes that will be record and it protects the officer if they'd say look I was provoked looked at first then you know would would charge again I mean look they have a weapon. It it director of it and everybody knows what really happened without that -- what you have is sort of the classic he did she says. And nobody can prove any. All right let me take low -- and liberate -- will come right back. -- to get a -- to a police camera it's all and policemen. Evident students mirrors of the country -- it's been very effective. And I think there's talk of bringing new year to this bleached apartment. We'll come right back she told well and doubled to what do you think about that and more after the are walking backward thinking about body cameras on policeman in a couple of places here in the country more than a couple of appliances. It's been implemented now having so improved to good results were booked these shore where this. Criminologists. Would two in the mortgage real Madrid's record rectory -- field you orders over the listeners votes go to -- -- horribly. Q you're -- -- Marjorie and -- Yet thank you call it like as you get this. What -- it. About. To want to go more than two months ago more Howland was stopped by state troopers. -- -- -- because the show. And dad is -- what happened. And Friday at the -- colonel Edward and gain more and dad. What happened. Now they have the least that there. Would still. But yet we not meet its if -- -- really what have. EE. ROY. Other light but what that. Marjorie you -- -- what do you make of that observed in the way that video verify. Sues film's true. -- -- Well on this kind of back to what you know having had an inmate is -- and not in the image. He had pictures aren't -- line. You have to analyze them and you have to understand that there may be something that took place off camera. What -- -- will always be at least a better record of what happened then not having any video at all. You know it's like any other record it only is good physically challenged but it's better than not having -- Well accomplished -- one is that you know. Just wiggle room with -- these comments. Are these studios to spots that -- I think it's part of an investigation. I think it's fair thing is in this is a huge issue. Is is currently in police officers couldn't have a paradoxical effect of doing two things one keeping the officers in the car. You know whose wife your house and get sued or fired. Or go to jail if you don't get the car and I'm hearing from supervisors. That that's an issue you know in the since you -- The cause and in part because well intentioned. Control. This is -- went from a difficult job to impossible to. And no in between the the you know if you if you wanna style armed robbery in progress. This is an surgery. You know I mean it is. You know you're running you're sweating the adrenaline going. And -- is who's gonna take trillions of getting in the middle of armed. Combat. Or rolling on the ground. In in in in the most highly scrutinized environment we're having trouble with the recruits and people argued the that. You know the procedural justice -- more important happened bodies in the street. I can get a -- -- I think we might have going over the top. On and attempting. Well intention to -- through these threats from nuclear arms in the techniques. And ignored the realities of street police. -- be simple a cop who's gonna stay in the car because. He sees a couple of suspicious people because of that the current surge fugitives said. But -- citizen corps there. Spousal abuse or robbery I think his -- and Gibson and what you stay in the cork more drew what are your thoughts. You've gone you know. There they are saying it a police officer has to do it. And and and and remembered they did it. These deep -- records all -- protect the officer is the officer is acting according to protocol. -- -- protect both fine. And so -- I don't know why an officer who is doing their job properly. Would object to having a record of the fact that they did their job properly. Little -- and a short period. Marjorie if you're police officer and you saw that Lee. In the quarter earnings got a -- in his pocket. Would you and there are cameras. Would you take the risks. If you wanna -- stop the -- in an effort to. Check it -- Well -- I think that's a really bad example because I don't think there's anything that having you know enhance security or anything could have done. To stop what happened on -- street. You know people that go on broad street all the time with say he described Belgium in their pockets. And you know we have lost a better -- that permit people to carry weapons in public. And you know. And and the police now are not allowed to just stop insert somebody because they appeared that they may have a weapon in their pocket. So that included any inappropriate. Stop and search unless there was other reasonable suspicion that had nothing to do with this guy appearing to have a weapon. They had and in this city and and publisher sports forum in Portland. You should -- concerned about digital camera -- -- because they are you big public. You know take the Mother's Day incident with the two guys you know in the shadows the market's very tricky. That conversation. This -- pro active we've. It's it's just yeah you know we're -- thirty week you know 14550. Murders. In people my friends from new York and also some here. You know how do you balance the reality of death by Milan. In the city -- -- Probable cause due process for me. Actually I'm very through them Marjorie and computers starting done. That's sort of these -- there and and to be police officer with limited education you're clinging lawyer. But you know that's that's the rough -- of all time points. It is very last job and -- nonetheless we have constitutional safeguards and an and we've weakened hand. Compromise on those globally because we may have a recruitment problem. We can't say that was colonial now. Illegal -- Just because he has a law officer who who doesn't have vPro -- It is the job of the police department. To provide the training that it says that officers know what they can't it cannot fit and the fact is. There is nothing. That additional. Officers or or scrutiny could have gone. To prevent what happened on Bourbon Street in a -- that would be in they'd be in legal. Peter it's great moment Greg comes more ahead of policemen plural. Suited me all up all the record obviously did general use them you rob and -- you can be and you've destroyed -- image you use -- nobody crosses because of what used the media's done. The black community doesn't cross those at all let's say there absolutely. -- -- well in that true enough elected to be a policeman. Public wrong. How important elements of what went wrong and because Garland I don't approached you to say -- I don't approach fielders to -- that approach he'll lose to broadcasts. I want over the and so what went on that an argument for the care. -- -- -- I feel -- the you know the majority. Of police officers who are working hard. Doing nick. Doing the right way -- -- today because act with everything it's the bad news again create tension not good. And -- you'd have not you but I mean -- collectively the media. Have not really hurt the reputation of the police -- anymore advance publishing any other events story about anybody else hurt them. It is it is our job and it is absolutely true is that the good pay for the -- that's the reality of life. And and that threatens that your own fire is so in the open. View. Reputations. Doctors so it is true you are you're really good together I can't wait to see you -- Our -- thank you might have a good day it would come right back a -- of the. Or -- don't go way out Dinka scoot is still sitting in for Angel hill. But the have been trending show. At the first hour and a lot more coming up stable. Alberto bureau -- celebrity immortal 53 yep it.