WWL>Topics>>8-28 9:10am Tommy, Common Core

8-28 9:10am Tommy, Common Core

Aug 28, 2014|

Tommy talks to Michael Brickman, the National Policy Director of the Thomas Fordham Institute, and Dr. Sandra Stotsky, a Prof. Emerita of Education Reform at the University of Arkansas, about the pros and cons of Common Core

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Automatically Generated Transcript (may not be 100% accurate)

Quick reminder that we have more James Taylor tickets to giveaway doing enough he at the end results are -- coming into loans November 11 over the you know Lakefront arena. And WWL of course as you tickets you can beat the box office and went -- before 10 o'clock and then two more chances. Tomorrow. And -- -- to do is listen for the eight. Point seven seconds of a James Taylor sound very tricky 82 point seven seconds. Examining is saying. Yeah it's subliminal -- you gotta finish the song right yea get a -- what. Song it is that we're playing incorrectly identify -- and and then what truly on -- years seating and singled -- But that's not -- -- -- that's not required we just like to hear if you can now last winner got away with it but this time -- is going to. Say that song down yeah. Numbers released singing or not so we'll see anyway it's coming up before botanic liking and beat the box office when your tickets before they go on sale. Friday's September 5. And he talked about that Brad hit an Angel -- and yeah how about that little deal again married in France finally let you did the movie where they -- away a hit man -- to get each other people the other I was there and mr. and mrs. Matthews NC not like not like the movie better when he did it 1985 and the culprits he's honored with. Jack Nicholson and Kathleen Turner pretty much same and it. -- -- it's you don't have Bradley in -- one of psychology. Gradually you know Brad Angelina did -- Jack and and and Kathleen Turner so I thank you David -- a move on here to talk about uninsured do much. You need to. You -- your business stewards and OK that's that argument not comment on terror I Michaels moved and Michael Britain joins us right now national policy director at the Thomas B Fordham institute to talk about this. Says that Bobby Jindal filed against the federal government you know and an attorney but I think he's on. Shaky legal ground here he's gonna say well now. A government shouldn't be able to time a the money that they give the states into the state duo and what they want to do the governor basically saying that the federal government is hijacked. Common core destroyed the initiative and force states into accepting it. And we just trying to figure out is any of that true in their pretty jaguar opinion -- asking you. Is the governor's standing up for our kids are standing on them to raise his political standing joining us right now Michael -- more answer. -- Did tell me if you will first again assured take on all of this in terms of the governor's saying that. The -- hijacked destroy the common core initiative and force states into accepting it any of that true. Well in terms. The politics of this -- I don't think we'd be in. Have this conversation right now at the federal government hadn't tried to penalize states. To adopt the common -- by. Battle was it was an incentive for them to adopt believe in just tires standards in Louisiana and forty states did adopt the common core. The thing with that is that. You know there was no car and of course the federal government mandates things all the time demanding things educational time. I like governor Jindal. Believe that there should be your mandate especially when it comes to time educator tipped it should be left -- to the states and to the local governments to figure out. How to teach your kids they figured out and the best but it. Let me let me jump in here there and Michael because I have a lot of questions and I -- listeners do as well. About standards as station because if you leave it up to each state audience and -- out with a standardized curriculum more. Because to me you know it glow comes down to testing you have to. Test apples -- apples oranges against oranges to see if it's working or not lemon isn't here. Well it's important to note the -- -- is not -- curriculum it's SATA standards. -- curriculum always has been always will be determined by local school officials and that's where he did you textbooks from the Tories that informs that elections there tartan. Others. In port decisions that are made at the local level. But -- -- like and runners are AP course where you can get name. In a regular course of Laura a in an honors course are and an advanced placement and all three days -- not saying. Well that's true and that's what gets to the issue of standards and standards basically articles it's where he wants students to be in the twelfth grade. And working backwards where do you expect to be again at kindergarten first grade insult. And the idea is going to be spending billions -- billion dollars a year every year and education. I kids should actually be able to learn enough material where when they graduate they're ready for college and they're ready for a career degrade after the military. Without the need for remediation. War additional training to -- getting -- a basic start. Whatever comes next and so these these standards are basically aligning those goals with what colleges expect -- employers expect. So. Again to get back to. The results or the what would you say this standards against not curriculum ranked. Right so you at some point you have to test. Kids see it in you know some people on standardized tests -- people talk about teaching to the test but. Did your organization auto oriented does research indicate there's one way wanted to or any best way to. Is C would be kids in Minnesota -- parlor are learning as those kids Louisiana and Texas and then seeing who's. What's working what's not who's better than the men who have who's more intelligent more successful young yet silenced someone around here Michael. I mean two plus two is. Four in Louisiana that's four in Washington DC it's foreign Wisconsin. Matt and basics skills to learn how to read which is. Really with a common course now about. Are that much different from state to state -- fact and a lot of cases they're exactly the same but that doesn't mean that the way you teach. Is going to be exactly same anybody who has multiple kids knows that they are different abilities different ways they learn. Different needs and so each teacher. For a clash in the last year even. From child to child is going to teach material. Different ways they're going to use different strategies and that's the beauty of innovation and education hopefully. They can find strategy that works for every child but that doesn't mean at the end of the day that we don't want our students to. At least meet a certain threshold at least be ready when they graduate from high school for some sort of productive endeavor. I let me ask you this way then how do you knows that they each. Meet. At the at the same standards there each of the -- and an equal level if it's being taught differently but it's not a curriculum but it's a set of standards. And it's a little lady if you get to testing somebody when they're eighteen then and now all of a sudden Arizona's way behind Mississippi. Right and most states has. Beginning in third grade and then. Most of the years between third and one student graduate school. Teachers will be informed them that. I information will be able to. Adapt and make changes and identified challenges that students are having kept them. But common course oppose teach critical thinking is an honor that's the idea minus. Definitely it's it's about focusing less on. You know broad conversations. More on -- critically being able to use evidence. If you're reading -- -- -- writing about it and how you feel about something that actually using evidence and. -- point. So -- each ten each state. Have a different tests and innuendo prison with the results wouldn't mean anything. Well there's definitely an advantage to use states having the same -- because the -- compare apples to apples. There are a couple of different consortiums that are out protesting insertion. And that there are state they'll probably use to test that is outside the consortium. And so that -- muddy the waters a little bit -- really important thing to have a test that is not. Dumb down many protests that statesman for many years -- We completed past and that means just telling teachers and telling parents that. Everything's just fine when in reality students are struggling and any additional well. I I get a couple of text here may be can they can answer a mom and what is some of four plus -- is one of many questions my five year old has stance in the first week of school. This is common -- he doesn't even know what some means but I presume at some point. I don't know his four plus who would too advanced for a five year old. I you know I I think it. It's important start developing the skills early -- students aren't able to -- But what for a post it is nearly grades. And by the way. Not just be approach that -- calculators and actually. You know the -- Cancer from memory they're gonna struggle or coop -- district in algebra. How -- vocal skills so. You know is certainly every not every student is going to be ready for them certain scale of the exact same time. Except teachers to have -- students are. More advance in Lebanon had more quickly in -- students were struggling a little bit more so. -- -- -- Play I think it's just important to understand that just because wanna make sure that students. -- I'm getting to the same and point. And that doesn't mean that of course that every student. Does the exact same. Skills and has the exact same ability when they graduate from high school that's that's never going to be a case but at the minimum. You want students to know -- not agreed not to do basic math and that's basically common course and. So hand him the Fed injected. And they destroyed. They -- and cool initiative. Well Anders. They certainly made. A greater political challenge and I you know I I agree that Bobby Jindal I wished that. The federal government and again involved in this and never encourage states to adopt -- higher standard because that's their business. Com and -- some states did not adopt the common course -- states have made changes to the Concord Concord. Are quite good but they're not perfect and if there are specific ways they can be improved. That I am completely support of that by it. The legislature in Louisiana has spoken on this site ready they like the importance that have been -- ready to see how they plan in the classroom before they make additional changes. -- governor general's own. Education superintendent. And agreed with the legislature wants to see how this plays out. And I just don't know what sealing the Obama administration really going to accomplish -- for pushing back. Federal overreach very supportive of his moves to push back against the Obama administration when they came in and try to tell. Louisiana had run its school choice programs and tried to that. The choices for kids so. I didn't think we should push back against -- -- -- I just don't think this really -- categories. I did and Michael for so thank you are suffering this fools so gladly but and just trying to get a handle on that so. The federal government overreached notches in Louisiana but in other areas. How wind and do you regret. Then getting involved because of the political. Push back or because of what they actually did. Well mostly because of the political pushed back with with regard to the common core mean. You know the federal government issues so many mandates -- so many requirements but I didn't -- any. Which triggered the comment corps you know they they are coming and on and other issues related to education and school choice on. Telling kids what they can eat in their school lunch on. School discipline policies these are all. Very legitimate examples of federal overreach with their mandates and there's intrusion. That governor Jindal has in part push back on and other people should push back on. By the -- of course very different from I think it's caused a political ruckus with. And certified in states encouraging states to adopt standards. That states are free to do whatever they want in and standards and I think bleeding has made the right choice to stick with the -- -- courts. When they have heard is some. That did parents object in -- object to. Current eighth graders current sophomores in high school currents decorators. Heaven this new system thrust upon them so is there any way you could. Somehow transition differently and say OK as of this kindergarten class or pre KR every wanna do it. From now on this is what we're doing even though. It's going to be you know -- it would have 81012 years until you really see differences. Is that not plausible plan who would it help politically to get it except in -- -- to help practically. In terms of parents and kids understanding what's going on. Well yeah I think. Think it would help politically. But that's why pretty important -- important things important reforms take political -- sometimes. You know where I don't think the people -- -- wanna wait twelve years for -- to be reduction. In the student who need mediation -- away. Longed for calm in her graduation rates improved job placement agent with the current economy all the things that. You know the concourse and an accomplished called by itself but it should hopefully make -- difference. It is so in terms of did the practical aspect of this. Be because it's a it's new from what I've told one I'm told I don't know that it's a radical change. Say from what his sixth graders learning now or has learned all the way it can be successfully implemented even though. You know a -- been in school threw for 67 years. Absolutely and you know I don't think it changes as radical as some people are making it out to be. The bush and that's not just the opponent has some supporters to make the -- to be this match changed. You know this is about make picture -- the expectations are high enough for students that. They congratulations and not be unemployed it and not have any prospects. In fact the Louisiana reevaluated the old standards before -- Court and the English standards were halfway decent but the -- standard has some serious liabilities serious things and need to be fixed. On the basic arithmetic and on higher level map to and so the -- course about fixing things against if there are things. Specific things in the standards that. The legislature at that size of the Department of Education that sir you know anybody else. -- should be corrected distinction be sexton this'll be a process of continual improvement -- Teachers have been working for years to implement these standards to -- higher. And I think pulling the rug out from under them. -- completely without an alternative. In place. Religious can cause disruptions that kids. Appreciate your time Michael are really do help I hope we were able to shed some light on this for some people and notes that some terribly confusing subject matter. And maybe we make it that way by calling it things like common core of the federal government. Incentivizing states and and overreaching in areas where they shouldn't that has absolutely nothing to do. With common core again Michael Eric aren't yet Michael bring in a -- rather national policy director at the Thomas B Fordham institute thank you sir for your time. Take some calls we come back and are ready jaguar being people. Is asking you with the governors in the Obama administration is he standing up for our kids or stand in on them to raise his own political standing. Back in a flash and evidently well thank you David Blake we continue our conversation about common Corning governors suing the Jindal administration and I'm pretty jaguar painful -- yet. Do you think he's doing it for his political aspirations -- -- he do on -- for the kids a Louisiana. In case you voted Debbie WL gut common. I give you the results in a second one here from -- to a -- 601870. -- 386688908. Set -- as it stands now. But 63%. Are saying he's standing on our kids of furthers brutal political ambition. As opposes standing up for our kids now this is what Clancy -- said to say when ninety's spoke to channel -- -- Nabil TV yesterday. He and governor has every right to change his mind about common core. But he has no right to put Louisiana's children at risk to pursue his farfetched presidential ambitions. And think a lot of people think it's not about common core which the governor's aborted at first it's about politics and about. You're Clancy's say far fetched to national political ambitions doctor Sandra Scott it's not ski joints right now professor. You married of education reform at the University of Arkansas. -- we spoke NT RE -- we not doctor Sandra yeah yeah and tell me a yes first off I guess. -- In terms of the federal government in common core of the case could be made that. The public in re in studies and surveys supports it when it the standards when they're not called common core. That the pilot that the federal government might have a political problem. The governor may have a political problem as well because he might be due on it for what he believes but it's hard to get past those. The the mind the change of heart on his part and also the national political ambitions. That is one possibility but at the possibility and think about is the fact that common core was apolitical. Set of standards to beat Tommy -- political. It was. From the very beginning and I was uncommon -- validation committee and in case you that they were puzzling thing about it from the very beginning. Handle a lot of people were fooled and if some people not -- I don't know are there others can. Mean there is a problem with common core and they changed their mind dear to be applauded no matter what they are. Until I make this clear I am not arguing with -- and just trying to get information so when you say. Omelet earlier he says there were some questionable things I would say a couple of seconds ago I wrote you liked what town -- NTELOS like what. To begin with the standards were developed mainly by people in the testing industry. Why the media didn't pick up a net I'll never understand that. Most of the people in 2009. Who work. On the standards development. Committees. For English and man where people for the most part connected to the testing and the. I can tell me why that to -- in Iraqi Dokic is I got to understand this and I and I think if I don't a lot of people listening to -- That's bad because. Because they're not the content expert. -- the very two major groups that it should've been on committees. We can at high school math teachers high school English teachers. College level English teaching faculty college level. English -- -- man teaching back. And -- and this is where we wanna go how'd we get there. You have those groups involved. In commenting. Openly. On these so called college readiness standards and -- state board. Invited. These two major groups of people. For part of a public process meetings -- couldn't even do it passages that. A case so and again I'm just trying to understand this when you have the end of the the testing companies -- anything do with AC TE RS eighteen. They were connected with eight CT. And see American college testing group. PB -- College Board. Actually. Which developed can't. And has been involved for a long time and that and and CD DR -- group national center on. Education and the economy which had people on both. Areas English and why. Because he would agree recipient of the gates foundation money. But what where at -- people -- Hold on these committees developing. National standards that they weren't the content expert people and why it was the testing industry. Eager to shape. -- -- National standards. Nobody ask these questions. And people were suckered into buying. Oil. They were given it is but I -- to the top grant incentives. So when I hear bill and Melinda Gates. Does that infer something nefarious on their part are they backed an incompetent organization. Your racquet or it is. With no accountability to the public. Know -- that group that developed the standards and GA national government says the Asian. He's the epic -- council the chief state school officers. And achieving. Those with a three group. Private organizations. Supported by 84 private organization. The gates foundation. To develop national standard that we still to this day. Can't get any public records. Why these people were put on these committees to developers standards. Why the writers were chosen at no relevant academic credentials but the job. -- experiential credentials. We don't know we can't get a hold any records because these are private organizations doing at all. For our US DT is a huge collusion. There. It needs to be dragged out into the light of -- on daylight into the sunshine and nobody can get direct. If they if they were dragged down. -- are you implying there's some kind of nefarious activity here or it's a bad process. We don't know until we see that records what -- these people hire for. Why they hired what was the rationale. For having testing industry people. On the standards development committee what was the -- We now quietly ended up with no pathway. To calculus no pre calculus standards. Mean there's some -- English standards a lot of missed the net standards why many groups. Asked to produce. People on these committees we don't now. We don't know if there's anything nefarious not someone who ride around in black helicopter. And I don't Wear tin foil hat and I just. Want information and academic researcher and is no information available I was on the comic book application committee. And let's professor pilgrim from Stanford. We could not get information on what country we were supposedly benchmark two we were told. Over and over again these were rigorous standards benchmark. But not to us and we couldn't get the names of the countries. These are research based standards that you cannot find one piece of research that shows you these particulate standards. Especially in English language are that are based on. Solid research that people would back out. So we disinformation. You know it can make public judgments but state board did did he get this information and now they're complaining. Is your concern primarily about the process and always use or the end result. -- -- It was a secret process I had to be -- town meeting in person by growing up. All England -- with open town meeting. And living in the community where I would be represented town meeting. Member -- years but now like we trek deep of forty. About that the procedures. And this was done by private organizations. Who. Made we're on confidentiality. Agreement when we were on common course validation committee. That we would never talk about whatever the committee did -- said for the rest of ally. Doesn't that make you wonder. So in terms of a private industry in the government. Some could make a case for cooperation. But you're saying it's more collusion. Because we don't have any record. -- keep that are done in practice. Then -- are our national standards in copy righted by the way. IDs private organizations. And it you know mechanism for changing them State Department but -- -- wanted them. And state board that and even governor who signed on to them. All wanted them and yet there's no mechanism. For changing him anyway if people come up with things that are -- in them -- don't work. Or there are missing standard that should be part of -- can't. That given. Yet you yet maybe it did he present -- if you wanted but no more than -- States were killed and if you do it more they're not going to be on common course -- So this little incentive. To teach to that 15% more. And if you -- change the state -- -- state gave up there authority. Local districts have been told they had no more authority. To do anything they want even though they do have the local elections. In every state for mobile school boards. And yet most of them are be eating like -- so we the media to ask how did we give. He writes we had tightly just a little -- but for hundreds of years because that's why you can't locally elected school board. Just good old times. States would still. Doctor were at a time and I didn't say where the media is in this case -- pointers in magazine -- a -- trying to do right now I appreciate your time. Doctor Sanders stats -- president America professor America. And education reform at the University of Arkansas will take you calls when we come back. Honda VW well. I Tommy Tucker moments away from more Prejean sailor tickets and whenever I have this common -- discussion. I wind -- more confused because. Then when we started because with the professor -- now. If she -- like the results I couldn't really find out what results she didn't like. And if our problems were with the process what does it matter if you you like the result I don't and still confused about all of this Marty new loans higher in -- WO thanks for calling. I agree with you. I wasn't -- consumer -- -- really. Oh. -- -- -- Do what they they're used to it politically. I also believe in this particular. But this particular situation I think it's the right thing to do however. Because of that. Chair he's still kind of politically. Ago or so to stay there but on the children that we. Watchable debate that. -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- of those to be done -- and I'm trying to figure out here. Courting is that there is Marty there is some nefarious. Plotted words here way trying to accomplish its -- again. It probably is Bobby Jindal that much any that it isn't -- it. So in the -- but I do -- to do for what it was. Really -- -- isn't it -- and as this whole plot it's. Been about church and something like that and you know. An -- and the along with this kind of pick it -- get with. What the purse some like like where art teachers. That are getting aid and that sort of small and he's. Get -- and a run I appreciate you call Marty and who we're out of time here but it. I Tommy took a while would find a real local seafood restaurant packet delay the blue crab -- strong emotional book brings it all back. Fresh all dealers to the man showed stuffed flounder and seafood platter. -- new loans favorite you gonna love you come to those who shuns which your favorite drank. Join me in the blue -- only cure drive where I wish them regionally -- with the launch and then on -- Jerusalem the blue -- rush front you know reasonable. Hi Tommy Tucker -- WLE -- Jeff McDowell knows what song that was dear Jeff. Carol -- I don't plays and years and and you read it not been -- how -- that you. I mean here we go. -- -- -- -- -- Well done mentally prepared to get to see James Taylor James sailing concert Tuesday November 11 that the you know Lakefront arena. Tickets valued at 210 dollars an -- go on sale till Friday September 5 that ticketmaster's it will have more chances for you to win. Tomorrow two of them as a matter of fact Garland Robinette coming -- and he's got a great show planned for you as usual we'll talk about. Coastal erosion. You'll talk about no choice but the consent decree as it relates to the police apartment. And out kinda an Israel like coming up with Garland next.

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