WWL>Topics>>9-25 Tommy, head injuries in sports

9-25 Tommy, head injuries in sports

Sep 25, 2014|

Tommy talks to Dr. David Geier, an orthopaedic surgeon & sports medicine specialist in Charleston, about brain injuries

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Automatically Generated Transcript (may not be 100% accurate)

David -- we're talking about concussions in sports injuries in the NFL and businesses. Against spawned by a former saints defensive back quite frankly I don't remember the man Paul Oliver. Remember life under an -- history but we're gonna look up and see when he was here Nelson played San Diego Chargers. Terrible story he shot himself and and and his wife and -- Nazis. Man the widow is suing and it's a direct effect of playing pro football and and the NFL's. Own report this came from the NFL. Says three in ten former players. Almost a third bargaining hand debilitating brain conditions. And that's twice the number of the general population. Three and attempt 310 and twice the number the general population suits the hard to believe that there's not cause and effect there. And here a couple of questions here duke players assume the risk in exchange for big box. Can a player not realize the NFL was brutal and ferocious and noses terms used in the suit and also when it comes Paul Oliver. The families and it has been going on since he was a kid and that nobody. Alerted them of the dangers and if it's going on on since he's a kid. Was is the suit alleges that I think everybody is a question. As to whether or not. You want. You're young man in the play football yeah. And this goes all the where you well you know the pop Warner whatever and you know -- high school the very beginning velocity and Manson force and bigger stronger of people movement faster Ron and any other just keep hitting harder and harder violence and -- -- -- the pros and as a cumulative effect on the brain doctor David Goddard joins us right now and orthopedic surgeon. As sports medicine specialist in Charleston, South Carolina and good morning dot. -- I'm I'm well thank you and thanks for taking the time witness. You know on I guess you can't comment specifically on the on the -- Oliver's situation but. When it comes NFL's players in general and their own reports saying three in 104 players in and debilitating brain conditions. Pretty serious. Then there's no question that was really an eye opener my understanding and I'm not an attorney that was a report prepared as sort of a worst case that area. But it still is one of the first time they've truly acknowledge the NFL -- has truly acknowledged that there is a link between. Basically concussions and blows to the head over and over again at football and the potential for long term brain damage so I think it is a way that you mentioned. What will be interest and he would not just the the effect on the current players who does that change. Behaviors that rule that will do the younger kids and their parents let the younger kids play football. Added that the source that I had for this said it was an actuarial table released by the NFL which I would believe. Would be the same as insurance companies and and there are there are no actual numbers for that but I think it's based on. Pretty reliable research -- but that's sort of are different day when it comes to. Kids in high schoolers in football and what we know now. I guess a question would be is it worse than it used to be or are there a lot of us have played football -- at the high school level it did a lot of it had not been. That maybe the headaches we handed the little bit of memory loss we have as we get older might be attributable that. I think there's the chance that that both of those. Those are correct I do think that that players today are bigger and stronger and faster and deliver far more force not just -- the NFL level. But the high school level that you global these kids are much stronger they deliver much more force. But I didn't think that part of overseeing. As well is that we're much more aware of concussions we've heard all of the information did the education of physicians and athletic trainers is such that we diagnose the -- So back in the game at least he's got to spell wrong there he added saying. We get really equate that in the long term headaches like we are now I think you're right did -- that. Symptoms that the former players have now probably more related concussions that they have we just didn't know -- at the time. Does it have to be. The NSA dollar view when exactly business start. Well and I think that would we really need more information on I think there's no question that the NFL the highest risk just in the ball in the event packed and headed. And the magnitude of these blows. But I think there's the real concern -- -- players the youth football high school players. -- note that the brains are more susceptible takes longer to get back from the same about it impact. -- lose their -- risk for a long term problems while we don't have data on app that you lose of the follow up for -- for reasons. We suspected or worry at least that these are actually potentially bigger problems that the younger football players. -- I remember from Howard Cosell a long long time ago and as a kid watching a Monday night game and you know Howard was known for different expressions. But I went down with a knee injury and Howard says that in me always the knee. And I mentioned that because I presume there have been advances in equipment and protection are the number of knee injuries still listening. It depends on the specifically. And that the injuries ACL rates have actually gone up and there's a lot of factors based on that number of players. Ended the demands of the sport again there's so much faster so they'd -- play at their foot in terms of much harder. But generally. It probably has not escalated to the rate is like concussions like we're talking about. Would it be an accurate statement to say that the you know in terms of physics I guess at the size speed strength of the players. Has now distance. Far and away any improvement in in equipment to protect them. Look at is that -- some of these injuries there's not a whole lot of equipment can do and making the elder a great example of that there's no real deep race. That definitively lower your chance for an ACL there. Maybe it's slightly decreased risk brought into the deep that the blinded even that is somewhat debatable. And -- technologies had another good example. We don't some of the newer helmets being reduced some of the impact delivered but -- -- decreased risk of concussion. So. What that leads to a little bit as a sort of ball and the security. I think the injuries are improving and it's not that I'm opposed to keep looking for better technology is just that. Technology in and of itself that the answer. It is so the answer is what tackling techniques or and all you can avoid knocking heads plan. -- one of the challenges is that if we in a sport like football you're going to have concussions and I think you can do things to make. Said that the rule safer you know eliminated from the targeted things that we -- where you have intentional blows to the head. But I think more important is education about. Besides the symptoms that proper diagnosis you don't let players back on the field with these quote concussion like symptoms of these things that are really concussions. Where the brain is still with acceptable they get a bourses serious injury. We take this much more seriously. Because that's when you start getting the recurrent injury -- current head injuries that's where you worry about of these long term. Issues with a brain the long term brain damage. The big. Stops -- you brain doesn't end and that is does that happen every time there's a head to head collision even if a concussion is not involved in the damages still being done. Look at the great question did and the short answer is we don't really know I just wrote an article about that the that was the theory is. But there's probably linked to towards multiple concussions but it's hard to prove cause and effect. The other side of it is we need to -- it and people -- not full blown concussions but these repetitive sub compartment blows. These players that hit the line don't you can -- but they get. You know fifty or so of those blows per week that takes -- -- over time does that play a role you know we've seen these. DP in some of these other brain issues in members of the military and some other populations so it's more than just isolated concussions. But there's something about the cumulative effect the cumulative impacts to the brain. And you re -- head because as my next question is as a a football issue is this a sports issue a societal issue. Well it may -- football and in issue in the sense that that's where we're seeing at the boat -- actually first recognized in boxing. It was a different terms for boxing but we've known this for decades in boxing. We see isolated cases that DP that. Dubbed arrow cognitive decline of the deterioration in the brain wheat seeded -- describe united soccer player couple star players and hockey. But we're not seeing -- in the numbers like we're seeing it. Enough former football it's really hard against the determine cause and effect that you can only really guy knows that's for sure. On a player's death after autopsy and so we're still working wait to identify players at risk for that. While they're still playing is taking steps to minimize the effect. Is that punch drunk that they used to refer to his fighter ends. Yet the technical -- that was the key to lifting dementia but yet essentially that's what you're talking about the repetitive blows to the forehead. That was. You know basically causes. Not just BP but essentially parkinson's and alzheimer's in the different -- cognitive decline -- some of the former boxers that. Mohammed Ali for one Mike before we let you go and inform people -- kids involved in Peewee football right now pop Warner or whatever it's called an area. Is zero point alignments been determined where you know if it's. Kids -- fifty pounds is no big deal with their seven it's not the once he gets in the hundred pound plus level it's a problem. Anything under high school would not really be an issue. It -- -- there any been any have there been any research done along those lines in what would you -- is a doctor parents who have. Young men that don't play football. There is. Ongoing research about that Virginia Tech and Wake Forest have. Definitely. Pursued the concussion testing and and using the centers in the helmet even at the youth football level that's where you're starting to see more and more movement either towards starting. Tackle football at the high school level and older war. Limiting the number of hits per week likely pitch count the baseball going to hit counted football. That's hard to regulate which he has one or two week stayed collected on contact practices. From a parent's perspective I think the key is he talked to your kids. And you make sure the coaches are well educated on this as well. That you picture that you can't let you know that there having headaches or any other symptoms that they don't try to push through it. It -- is that they can be tough and not let their friends and your teammates down. But they let you know what you poll about you don't want -- back until they've been cleared by colleges. The bit about the risks that these concussions happen sooner and earlier and what lessons must trauma. Thank you doctor appreciate your time though we had a chance talking again. You bet that David guy or orthopedic surgeons sports mandolin medicine specialist at Charleston. South Carolina and on over the phone lines right now and talked to yell at 2601878. Till 38668890. Waits at any given everything you've heard. Deal what you kid playing football. Where do you think the lessons they learned I think you can learn a lot of lessons. Are worth whatever risk of head concussions or head damage they might have brain damage and -- And some analyses said in terms of limiting contact practices I could see that is a double edged sword where. It prevents the number of hits but it may make them less. Able to protect themselves on the field. And if you played any football let me know if you have any brain injuries and of course the big question here this lawsuit. Is. Does family have any standing they entitled to anything horrible story. Paul Oliver Reed he was with the saints not for long and and it's a career with some of the San Diego Chargers. Shoots himself and head on his wife and kids. And should they do players assume the risk winning on on the field attacks comes in and says do you think Drew Brees. Would say no take as a take this hundred million back I just go work at Burger King so I'm won't get brain damage but if a player like that not necessarily Drew Brees. Does have brain damage later in life. I would think they would try to go back at the NFL Tommy Tucker back in a slash WW Tommy Tucker Paul Oliver. Player that. Spent a very brief time with the saints and played San Diego killed himself in front of his wife and kids of widows doing. Saying that he was never warned at any level of football. That he could suffer brain trauma. And that question is -- players in the interest in exchange for big bucks on is different. Than a knee injury in a way because you know. I would think the average person would know that if you if you run into. -- and get a concussion and repeated concussions that dude has issues later on indeed just as -- -- does come with a big salary dean in -- -- at W good morning. What state dominate you adjust that it would not tell -- have opened pandora's box. That is never been seen before the fact that anybody. And that's irritates you so much the fact that anybody can say. Oh like don't call me about it or. -- elbow in. -- playing -- -- that is probably more contact than any other sport that we shoot outs. Well let me interrupt you Vince Lombardi the noted quote it's not a contact sport -- as the rest of it. It's a collision sport. Absolutely. And the bottom. Is that. Assumed that -- we gotten anywhere and she's. You want guys gobble it all in all but each shot and it has absolutely. -- It's ridiculous. Ridiculous lawsuit -- for this woman and children but. These guys go out -- it -- -- got -- -- a bit like the form. And they ordered out and now. I'm not trying to be called on in shall we bailed out all it's all up late. We. Okay and that was never. -- coach told me. -- Or some like you can watch. Charming guy distorted body weight in at Compaq. -- all right well I think you're right we get that stupid straw. -- -- started into -- you know deflection or else. If you gonna do that just eliminate did want because it's a -- it's a -- and actually aggravates because nobody. We'll stay -- of his son dean Stephen selectors named to watch 55 for the lions want to do in his sect Danson. And blew his knee out for the year and right on I don't know if the next thing is that ultimately told me -- my answer is Germany I don't know we let tickets like little. -- will. Not. Sport that are. And it's just -- get along of people in a situation where players contract and be able to take that. Frustration. And she lived in such a positive way -- we had good news. Are limited but I -- Stephen -- cars on hold only citizen front of his -- out of football talk to him. When we come back and allowed to talk DOT 601878. Till 3866. 89087. -- You know -- dean said something there about there's no other sport that builds character team America. Fortitude -- Sadr and and I ask you that is there are less dangerous sport from which you can learn. The same lessons. I don't think there is really but. I'd like you would you think right now time for -- WL first news for that we go to deeply. One more pair of crime suffers -- well tickets to giveaway today and don't have some more tomorrow and from an instant text here about football and injuries and com. You know I'd like to know in cases like this. Like Paul Oliver I'm sure he would go back and -- will if football -- it is him. Rather than shoot myself and hand in front of my wife and family. I'd did not play football but then again. I don't know a bomb at that time if you asked him that every you know hindsight 20/20. It's always old cliche right our -- If at that time and I don't think you can ask after it's all over at that time would you give all of this up vision and have trouble down the road. Hunting people what and now isn't it made him a very good living while he was exactly and I know if I don't think this applies to every athlete because there have been some very successful athletes have known wannabe Dennis beat doctors beat. Engineers be beat and that that's the only successful professions but three on the mind and some of these players I think know that they're gifted in that they are gonna play in the NFL so they don't really bottler another trade. So that's really all they hand and make that decision and I don't know if anybody would really turned down. In in real time if yes and now when it was going on. It would it would G-Unit serious issues down the line do you not want to do exist -- you back away from. Contracts worth millions of dollars and now because if you think the NFL is your thing how many times a year. From the Q well is driving a truck got another chance came back it never seems like they leave. -- successful. Job with a lot of future to go back and the -- very few of them. So you know. And get a -- they work in another train after suffering from brain damage. I don't know that that really is the issue here because. You try to make your money in the NFL and you know. -- blow money on a night of back trouble. Who knows what could happen I don't know -- suddenly you separate that from head injuries. Because it causes dementia later in life now may be -- case may -- case. In the old days data in on dangerous it was but if you knew you risked your knees your hips you lay your arms shoulders everything else and you did. I don't think at that time they would have made a different decision because they knew it. Cause brain damage. Would you think that with all the technology we have and I probably -- be working on and as we speak. That something down the road may change dramatically in the pads and helmet. You know about that -- the entire unit. Yeah well there's the or abuse that we head on says no not not likely thank you Dave to leave yet -- In a car we go a senior and evidently on the morning. -- really -- Asia. Yeah that's interesting I've -- Euro let slip and think about plan tackle. He has very good at another. -- Star. It. In the movies. And keep it. He just Holland is Lee and and shockingly his parents pulled him. Tackle pat even that's an eight Euro. Because. Basically he would and eat an apple. People -- then it was at the bar -- this is the go to. Guy. And apply so base you lose you know. In 08 that came. In and day. What war and basically speaking at that age just you know probably three or four times more than wired country so. And they pulled out. -- Got to change it's -- -- and goes 'cause he wasn't excited about it certainly. -- -- There -- about it's probably as a coach on another team now. Wait that's and and they made indications that streak. Com. Did you play football. I take -- just wonder in what. Tom. -- they did dean said something about it I think his name about. Hum football teachings of the lessons that no other sport and teaching man just wondered in terms of less potential for injury if there are other sports ENT to same lessons is that game can. -- -- Like redeem it today saying keep it right a lot of respect -- do not plate baseball he played soccer. And bet I'm very bad discipline -- -- practices. That responsibility. Teaches. You team -- you know. At least an on day. I think it's it's pretty much saying I don't think it is to be bow -- me. You know. You know and coached joining routine making practices making gains given you that. I think it's pretty much the way. There's. As you friend have any trouble coaching. Kids in the game that he went zone did plan. -- -- He's -- go to Oprah. -- -- Join. So I don't know he's -- football coach thank you Steve I'm glad you called when -- done it. Genie in -- -- -- aren't at a W good morning. Good morning. A couple of paying key port. -- sport and sticky camaraderie. Mature they -- And -- any physically feeling and -- things very physically demanding as well because you got to push yourself and push yourself and push yourself and not quit. There they are. On another. It's not the time being covered. The article op. -- -- -- -- Earlier. -- hit me and later that would. Have -- -- right now I -- in car. I'm not letting me yeah that. Much happened in the proper. -- -- -- and I. People didn't see it it was chilling because they had. The picture of the kid and he says the last couple of minutes of his life because moments later he was gone. An act and any injury -- your -- opening week. After. And -- -- and another action and that happened. There. Are another clash junior. Year I worked with doctor Gary -- On the North Shore -- what -- Cool all. Thought. I'd like. True trying. To be changed to recognize. The right people get out. Candidate but personally. They -- Euro break. You know. I'm I'm pushing the track. And it. Well. -- contact. Sport like soccer and like what I'm going should be talking to them at TD people I am a college. -- people. I can help kids at all. Diploma and cry and you only get one school going to be your chance to beat me. A -- luckily luckily we get one. As we -- people don't want it they did not thank you I'm glad you called and measurements since mentions track and field and what this sport that'll teach you to push yourself to the absolute limit of physical exertion and I give up we'll take more calls when we come back. To Tim and Baton Rouge we go who. Says -- on football to him. Now I -- -- -- Am college players only say a little bit of football and a -- -- is that they do well. Well -- -- The you know. They're they're like no. I added I just know I just find it interesting and all college players and every year's Mosley a little bit of football lately to the collegiate level but tell me why you cult him. Well make a comment on these you know the your actions and any and all. A year ago you -- all these. -- like to speak. And the ball well and -- -- all. All of the not. The actual. Play and I elected to guide at Detroit -- that -- in his first Downey makes sack of Aaron Rodgers and he's trying to. To mimic that -- discount double check whatever it is blows me out for the season and you gotta wonder if if that kind of thing wouldn't be shown celebrated of people would even do it. But right. I was. Just think it is. Immediately it. Despite. Be an option that was. Like and like that. Tim do you have any problems any need banking elbows shoulder -- finally gonna bring trouble and I don't sound like you do. Well get them. You like may have a different opinion. But will it be any. Trouble and read that -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- When. Will -- Be. Pushed all the. Anne O'Neil of the NFL same thing you think everybody you can turn a corner a -- you can't thank you and ready tell him a great day. You got to listen gradually Debbie dingle she and a friend. Are gonna be our guest -- crime -- part of all heroes and hooligans costume gala. -- Saturday night a money grow world if you wanna know more. On a crime suckers aren't involved -- 378477. Or visit their website a crime suffers GM no -- award. And -- listen males have more chances we don't win. From WWL. Tommy Tucker great conversation on WW well the news talk since Tommy Tucker continuing a conversation about football and head injuries and Tom an Amy went to be part of an eight town. Yeah. -- -- Almost all and in principle do say that there's something that goes all the in the -- the ball. It probably killed more brain injury in alone on footballers are good and Hilliard and say town I really thought about it. Exactly LP would probably could come from that it does one would prevail what would -- century. He gets out alcohol damages -- brain cells that you don't get back with the proportion is good. Aside that's not a bad point I'm glad you called have a great day a couple of -- that come in. I played all sports and the reason football is the ultimate team sport is because it's the only one that you're actually going in the physical battle with an opponent. And you were literally trusting your fellow teammates to have you back to keep you from -- seriously injured. Depending on someone get a base hits he can score from second isn't quite the same and and another tech says curling is a team sport. Yet -- Canadian. Garlands coming up get free saints tickets for you he'll talk about rebuilding the coastline. Immigration to new long ones and a great group of entrepreneur lowers. In candidates when he fifteen entrepreneur class he'll talk to.