WWL>Topics>>10-7 9:10am Tommy, divorce, annulment, and relationships

10-7 9:10am Tommy, divorce, annulment, and relationships

Oct 7, 2014|

Tommy talks to Dr.Karen Ruskin, a licensed marriage & family therapist & author of Dr. Karen's Marriage Manual, about divorce and relationships. Tommy also talks to Fr. Tom Reese, a senior analyst at the National Catholic Reporter, about the Church synods and annulment.

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Automatically Generated Transcript (may not be 100% accurate)

Got a hot conversation on David about marriage and religion and divorce and annulment. And please please listen very closely to him and say oh yeah it is an appeal an -- here and go ballistic -- or something else maybe you know I'm divorced I'm Catholic. Com I think just my humble opinion. That. Guide Jesus whomever you believe it knows what's in your heart knows it's in the other persons -- you look in the -- if you're honest with -- yourself you should know. And I think they have acted to -- the intimate details of your life. -- before a body of priest and be represented by a priest to determine whether or not this marriage was reality exists that. Tom I think everybody knows what's going on that being in Jesus knows what's going on your approval to a to a group of men that being said. And maybe it's laypeople I don't know we'll talk to the priest in a minute but that being said if I'm bored to get married again which will never happen not. Never say never I I would adhere to the rules of the church because I would think I was doing something wrong because I didn't go to the proper process so much so. Logically I think it's foolish. Blood. I guess because of the way I was raised -- because my beliefs. I'd still adhere to. I don't doctor Karen Ruskin joints right now licensed marriage and family therapist. Author of doctor -- marriage manual a friend of ours morning dot. -- I don't think you wanna strain of the religious aspect of this but. You know when it comes to marriages that are broken when it comes to kids that are involved. I find it hard to believe that. -- god would want every party to be miserable so I'd I don't onions and text from people saying you know you made a commitment to get honored -- lava. Once. I mean it's at times marriages just are broken and can't be fixed -- yes I know. Well you made a -- you write them I'm not staying down in religious -- from my expertise -- as a marriage therapist but it's not uncommon for couples to content and even an individual to come in you know by themselves and to talk about -- -- they're having with regards to one side of them. Want to leave the marriage but the other side of them perhaps. But the fact that they religious side feels that they have a commitment that they have to keep. And you know as far as the component with kids being involved that does make it. All look like -- a -- on because typically eat whatever religion you maybe you're thinking about your kids and thinking well that's better for the kids for the marriage to stay together. The larger question that America is so broken that they can't be fixed. Certainly there's some marriages that I would term debt that they -- still broken they can't be fixed. I'd rather -- circulated that. People are so calm and emotionally divorced that they can't bring back. There at their passion and desire and motivation and effort and it will hate in order to get their relationship. To healthy place. Because otherwise it would seem to me if every marriage was able bull then why would people ever get divorced absent. The proper counseling and then you would say if they get the proper counseling nobody should ever get divorced right well. Sometimes people get divorced not because it really it not because the marriage can't be improved its rather -- no longer have. The desire paction -- put in the effort on and lack thingy has been so hurt. That com -- so disconnected. From even feeling. The feeling you need to have for the other person and for the marriage in order to do what it takes to get their relationship to a better place. So how do you balance is a therapist ending and nobody in specific here but just generally speaking. Religious beliefs. With trying to fix the marriage with keep in mind there could be children involved here one person. Is very religious like you said the religious one or whatever the other one did that knows how miserable they are are. Or feels trapped as a therapist how do you balance on Latin terms of advice that you give people -- I guess ultimate goal is is still let him work through their problems and be happy. Well as a Pakistani. I tried to help them help themselves speak truth to what they're really feeling and that means access. On the sides of there green. Meaning. The religious side the emotional side being logical intellectual side. The you know. Parenting and -- to be selfish side we we explore. Let's look at all of those different aspects of what you might be thinking because what's fascinating when you're talking to someone is. That if you allowed them again to the journey to dialogue about what each of those sides of their mind would say about how -- -- -- And hopefully through really for the lines. What their overall spot doctor that way in Athens on multiple ultimately helping the person to help themselves make their own decision. Based upon clarity spot by looking at all of the various aspects of their mind not his job. Focusing on there. The league is not just focusing on their emotional fight not just looking at under their sides and thought. And we originally invited you on the talk about kids and save and a married and did -- kids necessarily help her marriage we strayed off and this -- but it quickly before we let you go it as my first question is. Has been having a child to save a marriage ever worked out for any one. Militant known it and -- GE he can't have children if they even Mary. Because children are an added we. Stability and it doesn't bring the couple closer together back that the thought that sometimes people have. On children are added responsibility and it's really important that the couple had eight -- Court strained so they can work together at the parenting team. With the child the couple needs to be strong should be group co parent. The child is not supposed to place them. -- role to bring the couple together and that -- Does not work out because ultimately would have been going on within the couple's relationship dynamic becomes big activated when they added we. Well as a scene in Family Guy where where did Peter's taken story out of the bag sequences aren't little guy. It's up to you to save this marriage and it's a joke but I guess the point is it puts some responsibility on a baby to name and what they're -- The -- joke but indeed it it happens in a lot of fame is their children feel like they are responsible. For the appearance. There and that couple good health and wellness and the fact is that -- should never be put on any child but painfully that. This is sad that some parents are not sure. In net -- and realize the importance of keeping their children out of the marital. Problems and rather focus on what they can do to take action for the couple improvement night utilized their child is that there and. And although again although that's not your intention to bring a marriage together and I -- thank our kids. Is there any data that shows that having kids. Makes a couple bully gather bullet partners -- an individual case 'cause it can be an extremely stressful situation. I'm certainly is each and every individual case the but if you look at research you can see that there are. Studies that talk about different types of problems with regard to children can actually. Poll the parents apart you know when you look at. Health issues on disabilities. For far too many parents and that becoming. Difficulty for the couple of people said. Beat together and that's why it's so important that couples have children that have special needs. -- for their own kind of help because that absolutely can impact coupled with functioning. You know -- -- save -- happy ain't nobody happy annual Lotta men who. Even if they think their wife is -- and bad days in capital over the kids or. Is dead wrong in what they duty keep momma happy they'll go ahead and back mama. And what she said even though in their heart they think it's wrong and what's happened in the kids. They -- and right thing and wrong thing. Well I I think everybody needs to focus on. One another and around felt that shouldn't be about if mom is happy everybody's happy because sometimes mama. The need for happiness and what is gonna make her happy -- in healthy. For them vehemently that is but for some -- -- it's not I think really what needs to be looked that is. How can this family we have healthy functioning in our contractual dynamic and how each person take ownership of what they can do for their own mental health a moment and how they play a part in effect. Acting everybody else in the family dynamics we don't fit into that vacuum actually not we all. But our overarching rule is that funny joke of it -- happy everybody -- me it's not just about -- it's about everybody. Mile and -- and my corollary is -- mama's not happy -- Packers stuff and get out and I don't think Jesus rather theory. Any age is an idea that Darren. -- you know it's all about. Focusing on what each person can be literally each person plays in order to help but Koppel at Stanley the individual to get to a better place. And as far as my advice he can be very expensive doctor Karen Ruskin thank you licensed marriage and and we therapist. Other tactic parents' marriage manually go to doctor Karen Ruskin dot com they did not we'll talk to next time. You died 919 coming back on a -- the doctor priest and he'll marry and money here the rest -- or anybody else on hold. As well talking about marriage and religion and kids and more when we come back I Tommy Tucker you if you've been listening you know we're having a spirited discussion of divorce and annulment and kids in marriage and by the time Reese joins us right now senior analyst national Catholic reporter author of inside the Vatican the politics. And organizations. -- And are there. And politics and organization Catholic Church organ. Com for herself on the good morning you join us from Rome you know on. I yeah. And tell me about is citizen on -- going on what it would result of that about. Yet lower happening right now at this candidate this ships on the handling that we have this from all over the world. Coming to -- to talk with the -- and advised him. On how cute response have to relate to the beat the handling is. All over the world so it. It's an international meeting hit it's very multicultural multilingual. A lot of people coming with different background different experiences. How families are. Operating there are are not working. Around the world. So in terms of the the meetings one of the thing topic said is up for discussion aren't moments and I guess -- there's one who -- nasty to inject some facts in the conversation about the annulment process in the church. -- go about it and what do what is the -- philosophical. And theological concept behind it. Well. In -- in the Catholic Church the way you leave you with this is. If someone is Mary. And then get divorced. And want to get remarried. We have to look and half the original. Marriage. And if it was a valid Ackerman -- married where the people. Came through it with proper pain meaning commitment and debt. It was the true. Sacramental. Mary van. That that the permanent. Command and that's the permanent records that. Cannot be broke. On the other hand if we look at it and find out that the there were problems with this marriage. In terms of commitment for example suppose one of the party. Didn't wanna have children or one of the parties would have their fingers crossed when they got -- they were they were committed. -- it -- Yes yes you know but that your fingers crop and they well. You know if it doesn't work. To get into the war now you'd have to be committed to make this work and try. So there -- a number of reasons that we could look at it sometimes that the couple that are getting meters simply immature or. Where's the ball in the shotgun marriage where people work really read. Today you know when they were getting married to report in the merits. So there -- a number of reasons like this that the church can't look at it. Management and then through the judicial process. Decide that the original -- to really get. What not now and that therefore. The people that yet. -- This one out. In terms so of what would make it invalid. Father I'm having a hard time with this because you know I think it's so many times -- we think in -- subject of obviously and hey you may have thought ten years ago that this is a person of the year to spend your life with -- then either they changer you'd change or something change is about the situation and and they break their files of the other person does or you do and one way or the other be it infidelity be it. Not through sickness. Or health or maybe you know I get to nineteen year olds decide okay were -- Mary -- each other then. Ten years later they're completely different people and you realize well know is really isn't the thing we want how to. How do you determine what's valid and -- not. Well the the church has a whole process for doing whereby they interviewed. The couple days interview people whose -- at the time that they were getting merry. They asked him you know what what was your attitude -- issue where were you thinking when you got into the marriage and sometimes we find out they weren't. Thinking I -- thinking. Yeah I was feeling -- and think in anything. That's right and so -- that it. I'm -- I think. Yup -- ugly guys on the Baghdad and other congress. At assignment that. So. It is. It is a process where the church tries the book and see what actually took place at the time of the merit. Now that does. Some people don't like this kind of process that they look back into the like he just said well you know when we get paired with everything's -- we've done everything it. Gonna work out and in people changed. Does that. Not in in that knocked away. The church looked at it in the in the on the process would it -- the book and his well lies. The commitment and I understand being tense situation that the people at that time they got married. And you know -- -- happen you know you may think that the time that you were mature but you know ten years later. Her wherever you look back in he'd say boy was I stupid boy it was nice simple boy did I not know what I'm getting in here. And did a year since the end and then I think from the -- expert perspective looking back. Unit and you can -- How ill prepared you lower and have this you know you'd get injuries of the and it. And the what was required. And we're not capable of doing what the church require it in this kind of the -- amount of merit. Club -- learn better by example before our time runs out let me let me throw this -- Bob then and Betty get married and everything's great they both went into it way that you do planning it was gonna last forever they're gonna have kids. Everything they were mature everything was fine. And then. Bob. Has some bad news at work he goes crazy. And kills three people but he goes he goes imprisoned with and I'm not trying to be facetious here you would think that even though the marriage existed at that point. That change. Wouldn't mean that daddy those civilly divorced when we will get married in the church he -- Well I mean yeah if it. It was the truth sacramental marriage to the very beginning and under current Catholic. Church procedures and no I don't think. A numeric could take place that is one of the reasons that. Some of the -- for example cardinal. Walter Kasper are proposing that we take a look at what. How the orthodox churches deal with this problem in in that church what -- do that -- look at and they say hey. You know sometimes it happens sometimes bad things happen sometimes people mistake make mistake after they get married. And for various reasons it collapses that fault that. Under those circumstances in the orthodox church. If that if the people in command and recognize inning and repent of anything date it. To contribute to the failure of the marriage. They can be -- -- given date and then. And that's civil marriage. And -- after that end with that civil marriage they would still be allowed to go to communion. In in the orthodox church. You know Catholics have great respect the orthodox churches and Walter camp Cardinal Walter Kasper at saint may be that maybe we should be doing this all so. In the Catholic church and that's one of the hotly debated issues at descended. Right now. We have to go to news and again as you one more example because this text came in. Fred and Phyllis getting married. With the understand and Phyllis once this out alive kids that -- Fred did it doesn't hold up his end of his of the bargain he got to quit school decides take a minimum wage job because that's what he wants. Phyllis is dreams are not pursued although this is not about spirituality it's about economics does. Anybody have a right to an annulment here. Well I think. What this I think that my first answered is this is is always when someone comes to me is. That don't talk to me talked to a Canon lawyers I did someone who -- Bit. Field very well it's like you know it's a legal. Procedure and process and you need to have someone -- who has studied this and that's particularly. But I you know -- and usual circumstance does something like this. It sounds like he was not. Maturity was not honest he was not forthcoming. When he entered into this. -- let's say he thought he thought that he couldn't -- get the stress of of a job that that was very high paying would give Phyllis ever think she wanted. And then he just couldn't handle and he goes taken minimum wage job it would seem like it's on and get into father real quick. You know -- is that this is a couple that I think need counseling BM. Before they needed or. I mean that's another thing here is that you know. When when when people run in the rough spots and everybody. And the marriage. You know they need to support system they need. Counseling they needed help to keep this marriage calling and they need to learn how to negotiate -- compromise. To. To work out these problems. Rather than just decided well I'm not getting my way and now I'm and. Father I appreciate -- time I really do you have a great trip back from Roman and enjoyed time there won't talk to you again. You -- time for -- WL first news more when we come back right now -- David Blake you know David talk of the good father just now an anesthetic -- in camping and coming in for a reason very educated man. I'm even more confused than I was before BR does not know if you're immature. When you go in a marriage that's not necessarily. A function of age however do you think. A twenty Euro. Port 21 year old. -- really. Understand the commitment that they are making at that point Mel. I don't think so it's not I was out there that are just hot and heavy. Am in loves him and -- but as the temperature of the building there we'd have to do with any. I've liked that. No but seriously because in united somebody tell me this along time ago. Little late to get this kind of feedback gavel like but you should look at it as twenty -- thirty years because. And I think this is driving when you know you're 1920. May be hot and heavy. And you looking at their last year life that's ponies and rainbows and you know Koreans and hearts and flowers. But if you look at it's an -- concept but if you look at twenty years OK you're twenty now when your forty. This is the only person. That that you can be with there when you're 5030 years from now it's the only person you'll be with the only person you'll ever view with being in -- In a physical way but every day you can live together unit due this year do negative are you sure this is the only person you want to spend time is spaniel light up. Where are these are qualities are these the I don't know someone that can make the commitments that you can look up to and you have to look up to your partner I don't you know I haven't you gotta respect him and I think you gotta entertain each other because they think when you stop entertaining each other. That relationship goes out the window that is my personal opinions out of there should be and and age limit on gay marriage had been married to people don't mature out the same level another dog there are -- before he NB less mature than somebody that's twenty years old -- It's a tough situation and the other thing I don't get and love to talk to you about this is. If god knows what's going on why do you have two and a -- it was like a civil action. Why do you have to. -- column argue your gnome encased. Before a group of raised and some people come in and say a text in rather isn't it ironic that failed marriages are judged by priests who have absolutely no experience. On the subject I mean understand theology we do we have on the lighter note David Drew Brees Domonique teacher that would give away and little bitty bit. When you -- Drew Brees Marianne god bless you you're the most patient woman and a world. -- you're -- before news that nobody's gonna remember so let's start all over what happening you. While I -- that Hillary on an appointment this. Back. Not Catholic because. My. Husband what a member of my church and applying the guys. In any that was the sacred to Catholic league you're Catholic. While I was. I can't he was. I was there that your to a private demand and I wonder Mary a cradle Catholic and I had it is not only can Mary -- Catholic there. I got -- from the previous marriage not him or not. And ahead. I think California. They're interesting -- -- literally -- the operator. It was highly irregular. Within six or seven months because. My first apartment that no children. And I there in the 45. When I got it might there. It's time for kids -- but he -- he never did don't think that. No -- were given to you that the that the normal we've ever issue. A -- payment yet. It was a -- figure out I forget exactly 45 figure amount and I would like to make payments and we get debt and talent but the City Council. 845 figures who where it was a decimal point. Two front and right. Couple it was I think more than a couple and I quote it like and he and it is in eight that -- -- in the yeah. Eight. So what I wanna say Marion was editor some announce a point you went to make. I love your show like as well as saying my current. And I haven't anniversary this month of 34 years between two beautiful son. Well congratulations I'm glad you're happy. And -- Thank you Mary -- and good wishes and agreeing kids you don't have any yet 99. Predicament thank you to six a 187 -- -- 86 exit 890870. Larry Mississippi good morning on -- Have you know Khatami actually enjoy coach. Tommy been married 38 years and gradually -- Well thank you and and they started out as a unicorn in the roses in the girls in those -- thanks. Pocket chart in early years stakes are marriage we honestly they were making a -- Just to be clear what I was saying is in terms of looking at a timeframe I think sometimes when he Urals can't. If forever is an abstract concept for the rest of real life is an abstract concept that's the ponies and rainbows and unicorn and I think if you look at it as. When you make in the decision. 203040. Years and -- -- you might get a more realistic viewpoint that's follows. Well that's true -- outbreak. Historically women seemed Ulster to mature and -- and and just become more mature their commitment they've been most medals damage. And fortunately the palladium married most patient with me Chappelle lobbied -- the year are going to be getting out of my -- stage. And there weren't at our compromise to -- all as the president percent earlier. That that -- it that concerns -- about some of the called an including that the priest that I spoke to a moment ago. It at all and the church most importantly -- it and they have other way she and -- that broke. We'll wait explain explain that which way do they wanna have written and much other waited in -- haven't. Sure. Old and they should come -- been that way actually recognized. Marriages that happens in the church. And the brokers are taking out before god you're making a commitment to god first and the church back. Well but -- can you say certain money they get out of this commitment you -- god and church. July it tested I don't think it's I don't want to get hung up on the money I think it's more about well and case before men. Their children born to marriage. And in the church you know married then I -- early churches and church the marriage never took place -- -- reportedly ordered illegitimate in your pace we all -- Well I would never that Larry but I -- -- pledged at the time Nicole and right now I think you can hear somebody we all recognized I got Tommy Tucker right in the morning lightning like we usually do -- try to get as many calls I can't -- first let's gradually Jane Hall. -- as the winner of the Drew Brees nine Brandon dumb and domination T shirt from every conjoined drew in the domination movement. To buy a domination teacher go to your neighborhood Winn-Dixie your shop on line right now. At and it's not the numeral it's spelled out in and he branded dot com nine brand dot com for every T shirts sold. A dollar goes to a great cause which is a second harvest food bank. And who dat nation -- forget every weekday morning between saxons and another lucky fans gonna win and domination T shirt. And on Thursday morning said domination T shirt is autographed by Drew Brees. He himself the breeze family and -- WL. Care talking about and ailments. And Japan and I think when it comes in marriage and he adds that it may be what we're talking about years. Winning is it time to wave the white flag or is there ever. A time that's acceptable to wave the white flag and go you separate ways and give up. And and -- -- yet to prove that a panel of -- -- -- Catholic. Timmons -- -- note thank you for calling -- and evidently well. Yet tell me it's a matter of let's face it unfortunately convenient. Well on the Catholic side and the problem and so I am. Normally. A Methodist. And I've been. Even nominally a note the word means client through what you are quote all the way it basically CO practicing Methodist she just don't make the games on Sunday is that it got -- got -- Well so solid -- in the Baptist faith now Protestants have been you know I -- at a Catholic as -- Prompt that you they saw the doctor about -- I am. If so what's the difference -- that take too long to explain. There are many sects of the Protestant church look for member. The English for deported. From catholicism. Falls the question of marriage and supremacy. And that for an unrelated bailed out. Because of that and and then you know you talk about it indulgences is amended the person who ordered them everything else and there. All sorts of problems well bothered by. The Catholic so good there can be you know on the one hand you have to have devotion to -- inside and so sort and children. And then divorce is extremely hard to get on the other hand many Protestants think the same way about -- charges. -- -- -- Boy here here early for from you know you're sure -- actually have very strange you know -- real Art Shell and free thinking liberal was. And I get two things 953 coming back under the W. -- boy an interesting morning. This morning and Sean Payton -- -- Braun join -- joining us we had a spirited discussion about who and then not boo when those Super Bowl champion and then. Boy not a discussion about marriages an annulment and statements that are Garland is coming up he's got a fascinating three hour. Gonna be talking about new study that says a number Louisiana residents outside that -- the system. Just maybe -- luck also talk about a broad central -- -- -- -- like humans aren't. And new development in the U lawsuit against -- -- something organized. Sounds like a well informed interesting show pretty much the opposite of what we do here every morning. Thanks to Jordan shelled and David Blake and Ryan Newman and you all for listening and taking part we'll talk to tomorrow morning at six.