WWL>Topics>>Robert Zimmerman discusses the history & future of space exploration

Robert Zimmerman discusses the history & future of space exploration

Sep 20, 2018|

Jason Hawes & JV Johnson talk with Robert Zimmer about space exploration, and travel. The history, the future, and the opportunities are examined. 9/20/2018 -

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Automatically Generated Transcript (may not be 100% accurate)

I cannot be owned by scientific method. You're six. Send him tall and. Creature that's been seen my many little life you know. And de Ferran good morning mining boom Herron online inning and news features and yeah me. He lying then yeah real mania apple is lying game. It also shape shifting mentioned you. My experience it's an experience. And I. Homes and help us understand me swinging your stick somewhere between welcome to be on an earlier review and meet Jason honestly it was awesome GG Johnson. We are going to blast off into space now Aysu it is that big obviously Vegas. We gonna be talking about space exploration. Not only what has been done to date but also what we might be doing in the very very near future wind sub Bob Zimmerman he's a space historian. In a speech journalist. And he's written a number of books on the topic done a lot of research on the topic plus as some pretty interesting hobbies and what you wanna call them a false start may be charisma that's a bad way to put it really it before he focused on space settler exploration as a writer. On yet another interest in where they're gonna talk about and number actually pretty excited to talk about that too when we bring a month. Fallen in its funny the space is something you've always been very knowledge knowledgeable in this subject no I think what you mean is it's like my head's just empty space that's what you're talking about one note that if you want it depends on the topic a when it can't protest a US a you'd definitely you know you have a lot of information and this is one of those subjects were and I was even talking earlier. I know very little about very little and it's all it's always interest in me but it's never interest to me enough. As like the paranormal or things of that nature so I've never really invested much time and effort yet listen about this particular topic until the moon's not real people of inciting the general I thought was maybe cheese I was gonna say well yeah you know the worst part is termite father telling me that when I was like six or five or six years old in upstate New York. And he told me it hasn't joked. And it was are probably believe afflicts 34 years after that and you know it was made fun of science class at one point because it's somebody and a and when culminates and brought it up he just can't believe you believe. Those that don't I think of a percent think. That that belief was probably reinforced a little bit by Bugs Bunny cartoons was third cartoon where he is a gambling Marvin the martian who he then Bloomberg generic European Peter trough moderate yeah that's a lot of them all the things we learned from looney tunes anyway we have a great show tonight talking about space exploration. And actually a tomorrow night we've got John protests coming on he's an author and filmmaker. And this is another very interesting topic we're going to be talk of a US intelligence targeting of ethnic. Leaders and communities particularly with the use of drugs things like heroin cocaine LSD. Ecstasy and even marijuana so I would be prepared. For some type of phone outage tomorrow night or power failure or something to the leaker us as we have this conversation. You know the worst thing is always as people out of the say now that's not true that's not true but there's so much evidence to prove it it is. So and we EM well of course will be getting into that a lot tomorrow the government doesn't showed some prior to that you can but I actually haven't yet this year head over to FaceBook dot com slash beyond that reality radio like the FaceBook page for us. And had to be under early radio dot com. We can find all the stations we aren't across the country. You can download Smartphone apps that allows you listen life catch past shows join online chat more. Or any night relied just feel free to go to the web site. Look at the upper hand corner and you'll see a listen bundle or in chat and listen bottom. Chandler Samoan connection on line chat earned GG myself immigrant community people usually hang out and where listen McChrystal has had listened right there while browsing the rest of the web. Yeah and you're you can also see on the website is the beyond really do radio coffee mug which. I think it might literally qualified to be put in if not necessarily the Louvre in Paris. But certainly The Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York City because it is really that much pork park. So late Jimmy and I always tell you make sure you going grabber monks and straighten itself out there with the respect it exactly so hey if you download the show from iTunes or anywhere else do us a favor and just rated for us. And helps push it forward and gets or an Alan that's what it's all about is trying to let people know where it is our right so waltrip a break. And when we come back bring Bob Zimmerman into the program again we're going to be talking about space exploration history of it. And the future of it and on the show tonight Harry listen to Jason GDP on military. The fans Gary Condit is right around the corner scare congress for the celebrities parties vendors panel discussions films brings in so much more scary con is the perfect way to celebrate the spooky this time of year although scare kind of selfish about spooky spirit come will be held at the turning stone resort and casino October 26 and 28 cents. Former New York get more information go to scarecrow can't. Dot com that's scary con dot com. Melody just is one of those just can't get your head ever and it's one of those that falls in that category. I agree with you it's it's hormones you it's so forget them so catchy and who is. Tumble warm up was the band that did that and they knew they couldn't do it and they and they actually proclaimed we're not just a one hit wonder band and they sure sure were. He's certainly whoever I mean the minute you say that it's pretty much can you are Julia. OK and we welcome back to the program it's beyond reality radio ads Jason and javy rate on the phone number for leader. Two of questions or comments. And you wanna talk with our guests the numbers are 84468776692. We're talking with Bob Zimmerman he is a space historian. Any site science journalist he's written a number of books about of the topics. He's got a website is called behind the black dot com and wanna check that out let's welcome Bob to the program Bob welcome to beyond reality radio it's terrific to have you on its night. Hey it's up. A pleasure to be you know it let's talk about spaces. The future and good stuff like that. A great thanks for coming up yeah and before we get into space in the future and all those good things I wanna learn a little bit more about you because your story begins from what I understand at least the store but they're the kind of the professional part of it. From ask you saw a film that's considered to be the vet best film ever made tell us the story. Well all right yes this goes back to my college days. Early count data that was thinking I'd be right at the time. And I'll opt what late one night repeated. Late in the looks to be okay old loans who wanted to channels in New York can periodically they would shall feel equal to contain. The commercials and I heard it but I didn't see it. Oh yeah what has can't stay up late at 11 o'clock cult watch this bill would try shut up and I was like astonished. And I turned the dial because it was so astonished by it that's films that I had like an addicting critiquing something similar. And the same night I turn the dial and on another station they will be getting a feel cold grand hotel well. Which is not a full blown but it equally as great a film. And I stayed up till like. 2:30 in the morning watching this film and was. All the way and that made me decide I wanted to get into the field business which was my first. Only let my first Korea post. Cute is put into the federal government attempt again addiction college. To tell it like for real freelance career in the movie business had a much different things. A lot of very bad movies that are now or anyone kind to see including my own. It's eventually decided this is what I wanted I wanted to do something that would be positive and the film business has become unfortunate very sick business in the past. Point five years they've really lost track of war ought is about and and for that reason I just finally in the mid ninety's decided this is not what I wanted and I switched it certainly right about thing is that a positive because that's really what I like. Consistent thread about space. I saw and bad attitude and as science because that's explore that all but related to exploration and have some very big thing for me. I don't cave exploration gazelle like the idea of calling inaudible global format had the chance to do that. And and science. State exploration that both the same nailed it trying to push the envelope a knowledgeable. Actual weight humans have stepped. Until I start to write science articles about them that decided. You can't make a living like in the movie business by just freelancing magazine articles like I can just from the list social commercials than short films. And in decay in between things in the movie does she make good money entry Lance put in the in the magazine writing business. Hey you know after a magazine articles like Clinton's exact kind of write a book and so the first book I decided to write was. The bulk that's just been released now is an audiobook Genesis historic Apollo laid Ike. I remember in the sixties and growing up. During the Apollo mission and remember very distinctly that that was the mission. That changed the American culture that had the historical impact. It was not the Apollo landing. And even though that was significant. It was the Apollo eight mission that really shook the nation and our culture I remembered that and by the nineties it was. Mostly forgotten so I decided I should read a book about that. I guess it and we have coming up on the sixtieth anniversary of the books still available now and portable can it's you know it's still is the most important mission. Of the sixties space race in every way shape conforms as a picture. Bob we're gonna get back to that particular incident and that then discussion. But I wanna back you up because I'm not a knock him what you gloss over these bad horror movie should I happen to love bad horror movies. You can't fly. I'm not gonna tell you what they well c'mon now I don't well you'll lose you and LT and we privileges you papers you know if you got this fortune if you wanna waste time I'd have to tell you. CNET fairly certain these are not dead in a way that is entertaining for fun. These are bad in a way that is what I think is unfortunate. Palm's outlook for the Roger Korman a bunch of times. He made a film I was not the director I was the line producer on this thing and it's a local street walk in. It's. In New York City that trouble like health workers and Europeans. Com that was an experience critics came to work with him. But most of the films I've worked on. Just not work. Just. Wanted to redevelop that they could because I I stand at what she's site. Got tired of beating my head against wolf people just didn't understand what good writing and screenplays. Heretic it's. Bob I have to tell you I think this is Ed Wood may have thought the same thing about himself when he was making films in the fifties and now he's a celebrated B movie director obviously longer with us but his films are some of the most popular B movies made so I the other still hope here and I have to admit I looked on nine DB I was trying to figure out what films they were. And I couldn't find them there's a lot of Robert Zimmerman is listed and I indeed I have to go through the mall so you're gonna keep it secret from us that we Thomas. You know it's my friend. Exactly periodically I get very frustrated with the driver it will award or Emmy winning. Space exploration blocks I mean major awards she's great spokes to reach for the general public for the high school level above. You know it's a good and then based on magnificent achievement and more like France. Mean about the harmful to expect. Click Obama account confucius is set up like that that I think we look this is well invigorating. More exciting it's really. Space exploration is a lot law. A lift clean and also amazing. At what. Movie's producer even that could feel even as a Citizen Kane. Great movie actually grand hotel greatly actually when you compare it to it astronaut. Going to the mobile. This could be it but it gives you some perspective in your pocket again apply it sucks that that that's what we. That SI it's a good point. I'm but I want to ask you voucher years is night and it would be considered spoke wanting now. You are all right it's good question and I'll answer that very bluntly. But it's okay. Based looker is somewhat of a cave for a rescue. When you use the term you've revealed at a time okay you've revealed how little you know about sport that's okay. Well most capers still uses. Usually they are the people who don't know a lot communicate without a helmet until we you know what they're doing and we have to help them get out. Hmmm I don't a lot of K explorations. In the United States. Miles of virtual passage. I mean miles because a lot of because nowadays. When you Feinberg capacity who immediately after you don't just trying to hit it looked cute it's it's conceded. Poor taste summit got a packets that you do it that we can see it I know for a fact is that miles. Of urgent passage. And I do have a cut cut prefer actually to locate maps four for these projects that he really spectacular things that. Most people would not get an opportunity to see this you know like I help that are taught. Well you're you're you're right about me not knowing anything about the sport and. I don't mean edit and no I don't doesn't look people just don't know much about this it's a very few people. It's it's an unusual sporty you'll love it or you don't and most people are comfortable with the idea that's. That's what I was going to say Jason and act we're actually talking on this program a few nights ago about the fact that neither of us neither of us would feel comfortable climbing through those passages some of them on the big enough. To get your body through. Or even in not easily either so I bet you're actually right that's not on the night I would do and I commend you for your bravery for doing that's amazing. I will tell you dictators have to change that the most dangerous part of any tapes trick is to drive to and from the case. And that's really true it's very safe sport I actually had claustrophobia ought had had spelled out of it in tight spaces and you know bought as a part of the fun of it is working through that and not letting you. Most of the case and he can do depending where you law can sometimes be walking to I would say the least doing a project. This earlier this summer mamma cut title one of the problems that could take down there and recently where it's. We had started this giant rule. About 300 feet across. And I have full survey teams working with me in the middle can like fingers moving down the passage until we get it done in the days just so. We stand fourth day's work you know wait till this gigantic lose more than a thousand feet long clarity for quite soon the whole way 300 feet across. She gigantic formation everywhere it will walking away between these powers that's illegal sentenced. Truly spectacular claustrophobia was enough problems and the flight if it was just but it just stick Britain's. I think my biggest issue is somebody's buying either my way of getting now. And at that's what it is it's just I can't handle it. It to a commercial okay. Yeah yeah I think you know it is. You know I mean you love most case it is refreshing to beginners most kick experiences some Koppel can be comparable to that except you don't have a rampant betrayal. I grills here at Atlanta and you have to kind of do scrambling over Iraq and so forth split. You know as a tip we do that actually have a good time since I have to say it keeps me no you know. All of the old personal trip and I don't care how that they don't notice some of that and I don't either have a have a great. All right so we're talking with Bob Zimmerman tonight we haven't got into the space exploration discussion yet but we will I promised Britain about the history of it. Cameron talk about the future of it and what it means for mankind there are a lot of consequences a stake here there's a whole lot to come you listen and Jason NG yeah. Great show underway here beyond reality ratings Jason TV phone numbers 8446877669. Wu we will be opening its phone lines and our second hour. Of our discussion with Bob Zimmerman Bob is a space historian and a science journalist his website is behind the black. Dot com he Bob before we get into talking about the books and some of the researching ideas that you plug discussed. What is behind the black because that's in your website is gonna have a meeting. Yes yes in fact the meaning is right on the front page. Over the web site in the banner at the top. And if you click on the menu and media helped. Did it definitely can actually. Cold just behind the black it is still containing long behind the black and click on the Rio or longer if ever about this essentially. Black sky. That the national. Could see in space that is the typical sky you see in state it's block. During the daytime talk about visible problem why we can't see them because such as soap right even without that. So this kind of black what's behind the book and only in the last half century as the human race really gotten. Its first glimpse at what's behind that black and that includes the entire universe they are great mysteries. It includes all things we do their great mysteries. You know I think it's the endeavor of the human soul to find out what those mysteries law. Of one of the things you have to understand the universe is generally not obvious to us. It's kind of like game. Some things we take for granted today like this earth revolving around solemn. And it's a part of Lanka on unequivocally that's what is going on. It's not obvious. You know it can cook actually he accumulation of knowledge to finally figured out that the sun is. Is not revolve around here is that the current goes around to it and that's just the an obvious example how the universe makeshift Claude. And it only rated. Bob worked so what you consider to be the beginning of space exploration is it when the first stargazers. Pondered. Oh on what they saw on the night sky. Or was it when we actually left Earth's atmosphere for the first time or something in between. That's a really good question. Mean you know a strong commitment human to the looking at this guy animals and the planets for thousands of years trying to figure out what was going not. That exploration. Any kind of trying to get an answer to something that you don't understand that's exploration exploration so. You try to distinguish between the urge to explore. Hasn't been hectic. Exploration of space I would. You can't separate exploration permit exploration of space but you can determine when space exploration begins. And that would have to be in the 1950s. You can say it was the start nick but you know there will be two rockets in the during world what to. And then the US use these two rockets in the late forties and early fifties to do research and actually did get. Cameras into the space to take shots of the earth. I'm so. I would say it in 1915 is when space exploration. Exactly began because that's when human beings actually began to do. Before then it's just and it's urged explored it's all part of part of that whole paradigm. In a week of famously know the wind from Star Trek you know space the final frontier. I'm I'm assuming that you probably take those words to heart I think they're pretty they ring pretty true for anybody who has an understanding of what we're talking about here. Yes senate want to get if you go to the link behind the black quotes. From the afterward reform iBooks two universe in a mirror. Quoting beginning courting congress felt the astronauts was fixing Hubble on its very last mission and if I were I talk about this is that until. On the calendars in little boy enjoy around the earth. Human race ahead there was no limit to. You know that right in line was really something you could you could reach for nobody you can keep going. And it was so easy eight future place to explore and then Magellan circle the world. And basically closed loop and there was no longer limited to those limitless exploration border list without limit. Arise it was close to us and so for the last five previous Magellan. We get it we trapped in the New York calling it the quarter we attract that we can't we we don't have a little visible exploration anymore. And what. What each Star Trek. Opening words. Represent in the sixties in the beginning of the space exploration began is C recognition and support as well you know again that the black. That we will once again pushing that plaque on known and will be able to call places that headed the limits of up to that possibilities. And in the sense that with states like State's final frontier because he he's intended unlike the earth. That that their stories is that for a forever receding horizon line. Will forever be pushy we will never we shall that is an expiration and that is figuring the human race if we do that we will will we we will make us. Definitely on now. There used to use the words that the universe is limitless. And in that is a concept that is almost impossible to get to mind around and Jason. Paid me compliment before we start this discussion say I have a lot of knowledge. About these types of topics in a but I just feel personally dwarfed. By the what I don't know and Powell just unbelievably. Mind blowing the numbers are when you talk about. At an endless universe and you talk about billions upon hundreds of billions of stars and solar systems and these are numbers that are. Almost impossible to grasp. I would only say it's something slightly different it's not almost it is impossible for human beings to craft that it's just impossible but that doesn't mean we can't push. The limits and try to find out more and we know you know. Fifty years ago to have imagined then the human beings and only fifty years would be. Controlling multiple rovers on the planet hundred plus billion light years away on a regular basis every. Date downloading pictures and moving the robot around. And we have been hard to believe a person born in 1880. No cause no electricity no planes little television no radio no phone. And look at the world today and it's it's almost within the span of a single lifetime. No limits. Limitless but that also applies as is or how possibilities that this took. When you make great point it's it's incredible that were able to remote controls something from here so far away. But then again embrace of the question that I can't walk out of her room and my remote controlled my TV works so it's just amazing. How far we've really come. With technology. The banality of technology you know what it's best to work in the flying test can go there and make sure gonna work. Assume and accept a lot of money to do it but whenever making a remote phone for us you know but that thousands and thousands. And software for if you end up with windows and I won't have to go in close. Earlier today we're gonna take a break right now is so I want Rich's top do we get back in wanna talk about a couple of Bob's books. I'm in a little more detail so stay with us we've got a lot more to talk about. Who are reopening and phone lines next hour of as take on the number it's 8446877669. Dental free at 844. 6877669. Elicited Jason to. After the show it's beyond reality radio I'm Jason JC don't forget tomorrow night John protests will join us he's an author and filmmaker. Re talking about the US intelligence community and whether or not they're targeting ethnic leaders and communities particularly. With the use of drugs those allegations and made for a long time. A key focus will be on how this targeting involved various drugs including heroin cocaine LSD Ecstasy in even marijuana than Friday of course is a best of next week William J. Hall in Jimmy pedo meego. Who were authors investigators and researches researchers will be discussing their book called phantom messages. And then Tuesday will be talking with Daniel de ski. Which. And author already talking about. The holy wild her book and women. Wolf threes and three keys to liberating the witch with him so it's going to be interest I'm excited too because and I know that's what is the caddies working on getting on. Mr. low ball back at some point as we approach Halloween a research watching scary movies and we've had him on the program a couple times to talk about. Which movies we should be watching as we approach the Halloween season. What's generally only to be normal and that's always at the top of the list hasn't been anyone coming now you know medium winds hit. Two words that ninety to Smith has come a pretty soon Jamie and criticism that it was skeptical and say its final confrontation and then as soon isn't that it depends on how much money it makes is Michael's Michael Myers guys and every now and as it comes back to threaten anything. Our guest tonight is Bob some more truck about his books they there are many of them and if you go to behind the black dot com you'll see them listed there. Some of them include Genesis stories Apollo eight capitalism in space leaving earth and the universe in a mere. And about our take you back to the discussion about Apollo way in this segment because you put a lot of importance upon the Apollo eight mission and I know that most people listening probably. Don't know what each Apollo mission was about. You know get the numbers confused. So give saluted her background about Apollo in general and then let's talk about why Apollo eight. Was so important in your. It offense of wanna do quick reversal of that and doubt that. Anyone who remembers all live to orchestrate anything about the column that I felt the sixties space race Apollo missions. They might not remember the numbers but it fight day this was the Christmas tradition which they ripped from the Bible on Christmas TE if you know that issue that. That's what makes it distinct. It'll be Apollo program was the final. Three step program that that NASA had put together. To try to meet Kennedy's commitment to put a man on the move by the end of the decade and bring him back safely to earth. On the that was part of a very very intense space race. Which was talk of the cold war in the 1960s. Between the United States and the Soviet Union. What hung over the United States at that time at the beginning of the sixties was. The first that the Russians the Soviets appeared to be head of policy in terms of missile technology and it's based like considerable amount. They have leadership to a Khrushchev who was blatantly going around saying we will bury you this was not. Very aggressive and they were dictatorship. And oppressive. Did not believe in the concept of freedom which is a very fundamental idea of American culture that you should be creatively bureau license file legal drink. And the Soviet concept is now the state comes first it dictates what you do. So American tour very frightened and so Kennedy decided. In the Cold War battle he was going to announce. A mission to the mold but not to explore space but to demonstrate hit a free people can do it better that was his awards. We stand for freedom that was the point of this speech which he made this announcement we've got to demonstrate to the world that freedom is a better way to do things. So policies affect stepped in that. And very clear plan with Apollo mission. This is the rocket satisfied and Apollo capsule which is gonna take astronauts to gamble and land use and little. Module on the and then come back with the Apollo capsule. On the they take decided what to do this step by step to test the capsule habits that protests the little actual little bit delicate tussle at a much higher orbit. Really fossil or if not a little bit that would fly around pummeled. They were going to be in the world that we feel for the module that will land finally step by step be trick was to do that. The idea was that call mission would leave earth orbit without a bootable actual look and act as a lifeboat. To redundancy of the Catholic supplies you've got a little might actually detects. Supplies and that's exactly what happened about Apollo thirteen a late addition when the service module on the capsule. Failed. They usually little module at a lifeboat to collect and get back to earth. So they're ready to go oh they do the first Apollo mission in early October. And by that point they reliance should bite the summer action before that mission they were life with a little Marshall was going to be ready condition the Apollo eight mission. And guys NASA George Lowe decided. Well you know a lot of. We don't have a remarkable we gotta be something we can just got probably can't we if we're going to be put back around our ticket for the meat companies think about going to bowl. It was out of my actual we asked his engineers he has to include people to get the extra. And they also had we can do. And so they decided the first time they were gonna put people. On the Saturn five rocket first time people want this five rocket it would send them to the loan. The wife of Frank Borman commander Susan Bolton was scared she thought for sure it was that kind of passion. So frank asked is says. To and state job it's. Can Christopher Kraft to come talk to. Solution to peace of mind and he did at a party to a really good friends you know it's very small community. I think of course can talk for a while and Christian admiral licences and it's okay we were they thinking we got a good chance. Think the odds of success you know 5050. Most of the national. And so they went to 155050. Odds. And the magic of the petition is it ended up they've done and the tech talk about Genesis start Apollo way decree like. The significance of the year in the 1960s was of the 1968 was one of the most cultures difficult years of the second half of the twentieth century. Politically. There are many things happened and assassinations. Kennedy Robert Kennedy all the king pat protest Democratic Convention you had to Czechoslovakia. Two Russians the Soviets invaded Czechoslovakia. Protests that the holy it was a very ugly year and that because it's yeah Christmas week Apollo eight flexible. And in orbit around Wimbledon they're going to. Yeah definitely up to questions like just go to you know. Stay in orbit around the moon and dry in addition the press guys at NASA. Also Frank Borman and says you know hope Altman. You guys are going to be doing the telecast could prime time Christmas Eve. You're gonna have more people watching you at any press conference has ever had tickets something kids today. And Goldman. Responded to the press can't look comic check tightlipped test pilot of an engineer. I don't know how low can you give me suggestion. And Julian she is the head of press for NASA in 1968. Demonstrate how less societies change what he's hit he's hit it is not my place and working you'll walk out. Ask at this Uga I think it's okay. They could hit that little story of how they picked up to read the first twelve verses of Genesis is a long story at that time now. But nobody NASA knew that was what they were there to do except one person. The management. The politicians. Nobody knew would be able to do until they get it because they were free Americans having the right to seeing what they wished to day. While they would do little. And they went Detroit was to try to take something that would be. Express good world for the entirety as many people as possible they take words that foundational words for the we get the most significant life religions of the world it was trying to include everybody you know they weren't trying to be religious. In particular way it was trying to piece spiritual and magnificent way and that's what they did. Have at mission has significance in a lot of ways I know running low on ties the Stewart's face candidate. Looking at the earth and the Malone has significant influence on our culture. The pictures that bill and this talk of the earth rise. The most significant pictures taken. Maybe at all history decreasing influence power culture in India and the entire environmental. I can longer but you can read the book at planned out bull supports. Fascinating okay we're talking with the Bob Zimmerman we have another hour with Cameron opened up the phone minds as well for your questions or comments at 8446877669. We had a lot more to come in the next hour you listen to Jason NG EB RL. It's it's there somewhere between the unreality review with me Jason honestly feel is arson Jeannie Johnston great conversation under. Will be with us to discuss US intelligence targeting of ethnic. Leaders and communities with the use of drugs key focus will be on how this targeting involve things like. Heroin cocaine LSD Ecstasy in the even marijuana. Which is typical. Friday night for Jimmie and every Friday his a best of B unreality radio it has to be Ian is genetic. No but I seriously every Friday is a best of beyond reality radio some sushi tuna and in the next week we've got some great shows coming out. If you haven't yet head over to FaceBook dot com slash beyond reality radio like to FaceBook page forest. Then had to be under reality radio dot com he can find all the stations we down across the country Melissa's consciously being a kid it's a check in Austin. You know also download the free Smartphone apps. Or at their from the website which allows adolescent life tests past shows join him online chat more on the ago. Into Dallas show from iTunes or neuroses to us a favor and rate at forest oaks pushing forward makes Easter people find that's where it's all about she's trying to get the were ago. Our telephone lines are open by the way if you'd like to comment or ask a question about our discussion here with Bob Zimmerman 8446877669. Bob again thanks for being on the program we appreciate serving your time so what's the next step for. All of us when it comes to space exploration. I wish I have written about the success of the hour right at that it's almost a daily base of behind the black and we United States for the last decade and going through a transition. This one of the effects of Genesis. Still Apollo missions. Was that east and the Apollo program was he convinced Americans that the way to do things is these Soviet way beleaguered we would try to prove. Capitalism was the way to do that freedom but. We had a government program that's going to be at a program. And so we pensions for fifty years after that we try to do a program all the time and it would go to kind of circles and not the shuttle going where. And I think that the and in the last decade Lee in transition we're going back to the American model. Which is not a program might think toward space program I don't want a program. I want a chaotic. Really battled really Rollins. In history of individual Americans and companies. Pursuing their own dreams for profit. In chaotic time. And that's what's beginning to tell right now and in the process of that. We have private companies to actually doing things that nobody said could be done for decades. Decades I heard. Managers and engineers tell me repeatedly that you could not land the first stage of the rocket. Practically or use sit and if you did you would never enough fuel to get dish satellite into orbit. They said that well I think you audience. You guys know that SpaceX has demonstrated that was so absurd and the attention multiple times if question could we use U the first stage landed vertically and you say it again. You couldn't. Make that I can now live. And every used to dragon capsules and the doing this cheap and quick in Kenya as they went from a company didn't exist. To a company that has the largest rocket times due to anybody in the world of the building need to take a rocket now. And they intend to take person. To. In fact the first estimate was announced just this week the first customer and a Japanese fashion guy he's willing to fight these. Pictures the first flight upstate X next rocket the big falcon rockets probably mean that it's a pretty good name but that's beside the point. Building that rocket rocket is of course they say about five innings to tell. That's attempt the cost of after this attempt to build its space more system pockets at senate last. Which can cost about fifty billion dollars before it's gone and. It could take more than twenty years to build SpaceX would probably get their rocket built lesson about five years. Central private enterprise and competition is now becoming tomorrow the US beginning to use competition is a wonderful thing. Freedom to want to thank kick it forces everyone to do look at a job it forces innovation. Now suddenly all the companies said all the big rocket companies is that the issue couldn't land the first stage. At all now singing the usability song they'll try to match it. And cut debt crisis could still losing business. State sexist crap billions of dollars in business because everyone's satellite. Companies need things launch to going to spend it's like SpaceX has all the capital which you can use to build a new rocket defense making so much money. And then making it Elon Musk the guy in charge suspect next he started this because he wants to go to bars. The picture anyway want to do but he ability to make a living and it did it make profit in the trees going for. It's not just can't get these two guys developed Amazon probably the richest single man in the world. He's investing a billion dollars of his money he's got a little rocks out. A year on his own company blue origin with the idea of doing double covered. To take his own reusable rocket that will be cheap. And affordable and capable of against and the people elsewhere while the federal government that's. Is deleted the old big government way of doing things like shuttle in the ISS and. It's not happening very well until witness says the United States we did not country's weak Cold War going on between. Between Al big. Hoping it's styled government program. Bureaucracies and they are projects. And freedom and individual companies can't I would I would bet my money. 100% untreated every time they were in the sixties and middle war. Well I think the proof is in the putting and it's certainly in the numbers and it's certainly in the accelerated timetable that as SpaceX has been able to demonstrate but are there risks associated with the as well. Only to risks. I think are risks the risks so drew a big deal I would say this SpaceX because there. Accredited competition and a private company they've got to be successful they will get customers. Like businesses that have recognized that he can it affect you as his space seconds ahead. It's hard load those in the process of building a new rockets and they do not run away from it because they think the quality of the work is good. So that's exclude interest gotten past freedom I'm not overweight from wrist that's what we want to be ticketed. Think sixty remember what it will only take risks in the end that you get Dick do you get great results on I should say that. Hold up I can remember so that's helped him. I was gonna Odom you've picked up on this idea of risks and no one of the risks that come to mind for me. When you have a private company with such sensitive technologies it could be influenced by foreign investment or. Foreign operatives in some way shape or form whether protections against that. I have to tell you that the United States government has really tight government. Restrictions on how rocket technology can be used can't do anything with the Chinese right now from. I would tell you that there is no different you confess up but it kind of rule system anywhere you want. It's not gonna work either the government or private enterprise people architect personal responsibility and a moral position if someone in the government wants to test that to a foreign government. They'll do it and that has happened in the past we cannot government agencies if somewhat in private enterprise want to do what they'll do it about a what laws you passed. What the crisis personal responsibility that's. Freedom to get. Can't have a collective. Well rule what Soviets wanted and expected really to work it's not going to. And while I like about competition and you know that profit is. He's determined by keeping this technology somewhat proprietary. And it won't pass it around because it looks SpaceX want to be terrific to build a date fixed. Falcon Rocket reusable first and second stage the whole thing will be reusable if they have. Knowledge from their use first station that nobody else. No one else has had a first stage could studies so close is they have definitely Prius that because if they do they can get away their advantage. So I actually think private prize competition he protects us better. Good point. Umbrage at breaking just a minute and wanna ask another question about this next stage of space exploration travel. A mortal things it's always baffled me is that when that we went to the moon we went on such what we would consider now to be. Archaic. Technology. And technology has advanced so much from in the fact that we don't carry a phone run and our pocket and has more. Compute your computing power than probably all of NASA in the sixties. Oh Albright former that the computers they use for Apollo eight. Look comparable to. Eight simple calculator watch the duke who bought from Casio about twenty years ago. So with the advancement in technology plus things like the ability. You know for remote control devices and you know them in the there's a very long list of technological advances that we see every day it seems as though of that effort to get back to the moon or Mars. Would be. I am sure this is no small task but it seems like would be a lot easier than it was will be dated back in the sixties and it's surprising we haven't done. CNET did just win NASA's space launch system and the Orion capsule is embarrassing. Because they like that basically building an updated Saturn five rocket and Apollo capsule. So that just started this project approximately 2004. Law. It's now fourteen years later. They probably will not launch the first manned capsule until about 20/20 23. That's almost twenty years to build a single capsule. And a launch a rocket I mean they got an unmanned mission but that's pretty embarrassing I think because they are basically doing it upgraded Apollo. Patient. And that is just embarrassing that it has less to do with the technology in order to would be. He picture of big government and the Soviet style system from the top down. President price consideration. Traficant SpaceX went from ten years from a simple little rockets can get a small satellite into lower pulpit. To having falcon heavy which is quite pal from any other rockets in the world. It's privately owned and privately some it'll for available for immediate technical something if it would be more powerful that could bring a hundred times. With the refueling Kamal. The more hundred tons what's that fight against it fought it. And so that's just speak you know so is it should be easier it should be easier in the region if not easier not to do with the technology has to do with the lumbering. Bureaucracies. And walk and politics that's the nature of any government run system. And that's why we went around in circles with the shuttle mean. How is it should journalists space journalist for years. You know you read the press kits from the shuttle missions they work to make those Prescott kept pouring in as possible. Nobody would know it was not exciting tour changed its advantage to do into the excitement like exploring the solar system. They would show this pork. Yeah just to keep the jobs in this division in the in the agency go into they would get budget didn't have to accomplish all things and that's. That's sort of thing special for the realistic twentieth century and it watching it launch carries risks. I think has a lot of risks to but if I can just keep building the threat they keep getting three billion dollars a year to do. Do. Your parents we're gonna continue the conversation just a moment. Are you listens listens even beyond. Props tonight check out his website is being on the black dot com. His books are listed there there are a number of them all very interesting including Genesis the story of Apollo way capitalism in space. Leaving earth. And the universe. In a mirror trim and had a chance to talk about this is kind of a short segment Bob but I wanted to bring up something we haven't discussed at all it's really not unnecessarily directly tied to what we've been talking about the kind of cause its work you've done. On but I saw something on your website. That you said see anyone who has or just in talking about climate scientists and anyone who says the science is settled. Has likely not done much research in the field and when I read that ice you know the bells ring went off. For me because in this little controversial for some people. But I feel the exact same way people who are talking about global warming and climate change and all the stuff and the man is responsible for it. To meet. I don't know that anybody can actually know that. That's correct this moment in time that's exactly the stated. Anyone claims sent to keep politicians cannot climate kind diddley squat. Great crowd helpful police. Problem this science right now is extremely unsettled. I spent a lot of time if you go to our web site look at the menu at the top you'll see a badly out of he had put up of the research I did a few years ago. Actually actually do the research but I haven't added that they at least could get a few years. Had some extensive research into this this this unsettled science and they don't really know. Cup exit the trade to get in the atmosphere even the models that exist that don't depend on not that it's topical black site causing the warming. It took kickbacks system the car increased complex site creek and make the real global warming component that you walk out walk in the atmosphere according to the old modeled. But nothing has to match it hasn't worked in the I can. We can have a whole show if you want to talk about this and he can separate about this. It extensively. It's unsettle minds that doesn't mean I think global warming and that humans aren't going to. Exactly oh. And that's. And we will have you back can have a whole program about this because I contention when I argue with friends about this particular top and I'm not denying it but I'm just saying you can't possibly know. It's tax tax. It's it's it is immediately gets translating into you'll look at dying below. Ten Mino and as they. The Jew who lost people there and holocaust so they use were deny it deny here two can chew as similar to a holocaust and iron that's. A prominent factor in the war sort of way science is skeptical. System and every side is that the right to put out any results. And that's how we move toward deed it's Morissette helps. Stay held its universe is significant game it's tricky at all like you can't figure out what's going on if you don't allow people to question everything. And in this case. Science of climate is really and it's unfortunate crept in the whole field would I'm going to get dutrow partly due. It's crept in the fields also cropped in politics is it's crept in the way we vote it's really kind of the Seamus how far it's been taken but we will. We will dedicate a hole showed this conversation we'll get some dinner differing point differing points of view we do that parcel to go back and forth on that. So and when we come back though I wanna I wanna tart she just saw something posted on the site about the sunspot. Observatory shut down and Wyatt which shut down and Judy and I were talking about this yesterday trying to figure out. What was really going on X there's mixed reports and everything else and all get into a lot more than you listen Jason Giambi on morality revealed that it quick break up. Jason GPS yes right Thompson and the Zimmerman were talking about space exploration and and a whole bunch of kind of ancillary topics. Yeah above the and so the other night we are talking about javy had brought up one of the stories and it was at the FBI it shut down the observatory. And now in New Mexico and to him interim they were talking about criminals being around the facility. So they were trying to get people out of there to keep them safe but. Come find out that that wasn't the truth was. Well I'm I'm still the actual attach it seems here that you could not have been an unbelievable work by the FBI and the officials involved. When you this stage and the secretive you're guaranteed to get. Wild theories and more confusion and worst problems. And it it could very will be they had justification secrecy but the most recent thing I picked up tonight. This from a New Mexico television station that I think they've looked little warrant. That's spoke to be related to this that said it was an investigation into trial point that they. That they had gotten computer forensics certain information that's dead and IP dress at the observatory used to download. Let's say the word they used not good images. All the sole. It is this. It's still not clear to me so what they have to close the hole czar but Tariq Allen. To do a search of the computers at the observatory. What's the security problem not as a real lot that a lot of questions here that are not clear I'm not even sure this is this is true having to do that sunset observatory. They just handle this really really badly. I will bet my first goal an excellent historian there was no release of any information I couldn't help but think of a truck Andromeda strain. And they you know aliens but of course I know that's absurd anticipated in this situation. And it is not gonna pick a solar sort of like pistol and and fitness not doing alien research finish looking at the sob. Cup web this the way he's handled. It's just really badly if I suspect that this this most recent story is gonna turn out to be true and so metal but it just handled very badly by that. When I agree with you and yet as you were saying you Mexican tell us television station. So the federal search warrant revealed the media observatory which shut downs FBI agents conducted computer forensic search for child pornography the sorts of a source of child pornography was traced to an IP address used at the observatory. And a source with in the building observed a computer with not good images on it. It also states an investigation the FBI real revealed that the janitor is the main suspect in search. Though hasn't been charged with a crime but his name is on the Warren and. I wanna be careful about that especially that's net's news organizations navy opus speculating that could destroy event like. If he's merely. It is named bush just listed in the warrant could be just simply a witness the test that they can continuing not to do we can actually I don't know how I can speculate yeah. And then and also it goes on the talk about how via the post office was shut down is looking at possible thing. That's my speculation on what had I'd they have an exit explained why the post office shut down but I'm speculating. That may be mailed. Born was in conjunction with these firms the computer was sent through the mail and they want to check the mail list that purpose. That could get some my applaud it's really unclear looked as if you're shutting down its outlook so that is also very strange. And it seems I don't know this seems this whole story was fueled by a lot of speculation which created. You know a lot of misinformation. From the very very beginning and it's why a lot of the UFO community was up in arms. Thinking that there was something going on either on the sun that they didn't want us know about or just somewhere else that we had to do an alien act it was cold. Felt the fact that the initial announcement enclosure has no was was stake in Korea. Only affected to right from the beginning. He's given so much clearer idea why this is going on and I will tell you that I can't imagine why once they move in and with the war and take possession of the computers involved. The that we can to seek a ten point zero but I don't understand why it was secret. Well I can't just simply incompetent I don't think that anything our federal government does he says it routinely does that job. Bomb but you know we might not happen star yet. I saw a lot of speculation is that the only speculation then maybe that's some. It may be could be true and they keeping secrets is the one that this is a location neck and look down on the security sites and maybe there has been involved with that. But look we can't say. Speculate like this unity a mistake in dangerous. I don't Dudek and speculation otherworldly as I do like make it clear this is really unlikely. In this case I think this is probably that the story people will have to wait and see. Well you can only and you can't win the UFO. Don't know what I adulterous. Because they didn't stealing information immediately it's going to mean we feed a lot of people who just. And I got suspicious said the government in this place so I can't blame that I repeat my first what was the Andromeda strain. I dismissed that immediately but I don't blame others for. For holding on to that because they weren't giving a clear information. Well exactly that at all. Especially in a day where all the sudden mainly keep on blacking out cameras hum on the space station and so forth anytime there's something weird that it's appearing in the background so. It definitely just holds fuel fuel what's what in the possible possibilities of what's going on. All right so let's let's we in the amount of time. We have less left Bob I wanna turn the discussion to what week it can expect in the future youth. Used a number of the next couple of decades twenty years or so and we will be. Beginning exploration and settlements. Of I'm assuming Mars I don't know the mood tell us what you see as. Our. Twenty year. Progress and how it all unfold in front of us. You know they can create my science fiction book pioneer. Which sit trying to use this. The future and actually portrays it in pretty accurately where I think will be introduced in the future I think that in the next twenty years. There is going to be in its two components worldwide that are going on if you want. But in the United States as I mentioned we have this Cold War between big government Soviet style programs and independents. Private enterprise and I think president stressful week out in the end but this award is a question of competition. And over the next decade you're going to seen missions to the Malone. By both NASA and with its rocket and private enterprise. Hmmm I think that's the root NASA rocket is going to proved to be cumbersome and expensive and to what we'll be able died. But he will be able to fly at least once. On May be twice because times but it will not. If in the end it's gone I think die it's too expensive. If he locked the private enterprise summit at doing that. It fought the government will eventually I think captain is that private enterprise. Will be able to provide the service that the government needs to keep American prestige and space are high. But rather in the government and the building that badly and expensively and slowly you hire private companies to do it. Much faster cheaper. So I think that's what's gonna start to see it happening that's what component so the next. Decade we're gonna start to be returned to the multiple now is that other components like quote the new colonial movement not its. I wrote an essay about I wrote that column about the CU PI beckoned me. All fine if talking about how. The nations of the world all he had no pun intended effect can stay single possession of its resources. Confrontation to the world are beginning to compete against the Gaza. Full consideration of cat and of course China comes to mind immediately decried India and you got Russia still to cut Europe and the United States and many others. Trying to get their piece of the time up there. And so what you gonna happen the next decade is. The corrective actions by several different nations China the US and maybe Russia and India to establish a foothold fumbled. Tell whether the US doesn't Smart ought not right now the government program is doing is very bad way. But there's going to be efforts and ecstatic to furcal on the move and that will leave of course to further and deeper space missions. The US everyone has their eyes on Mars as the next step. And that I he'll folding over the next coming decade. And they will hit a prediction little burden upon the law made in 1954. In 1954. He says this is a guy who took the Saturn five rocket was one of the first rock real rocket engine builders in the world. He understood. He proposed same project tomorrow it's the fifty's that is a much different from its concepts for civil. What's been posted may contain pieces in 1964 that it's going to be a hundred years before we get to Mars. Can sit back in the mid fifties. We have now what almost seventy years later 65 years later and I think quick eagle on track exactly is it. Coast goal thought required a year to year long mission more like two years. And you therefore have to build it back all the content people line for that period of time he got to understand what weightlessness will do for the people during the mission. And that takes time to learn that's what you built space station trying to figure that's. That's the whole point in my book leaving their by the way it's all about. Try to build and partnerships using state stations over the last century what we've learned. And so he's prediction I think differently than I do not think the first manned mission is going to really go to mall until. Probably know early in the forty. But that doesn't mean on exciting things are going to be happening Google can can explore mosque pistol the sent over there and learn more about it. And we'll have increasing capability to earth and Google alternate. An honorable and those school teachers how to go up and down from the planet how to live our plan of the ball move gives us that capability. It was a really good thing to have some really gives whistle but the ability to learn a lot per closed the earth. And will be used that over the next decade or so by the time we get to the forties I think it'll they'll be it'll start to think ships that try to ports could shorten its. By a lot because the competition forces things to happen quickly it's like the United States went from attacking each collection of war. Haney colonies on the eastern coast to the North America. In the 17100. To eighteen most wealthy powerful nation in the world and only two luggage is because freedom and capitalism really accelerates the ability of the human race to accomplish things quickly and so might scenarios described Q could really change if we allow. The American concept in America are specially to function we will then achieve things include. Very quickly. Bob you you mentioned termed the geopolitical consequences and dreams for geopolitical proper word when you certainly don't space however. There are geopolitical consequences. With so much at stake. Are the rules written are there any rules whether it's the UN are there any. All we're gonna talk show our whole political bloc that has he written this weekend. Now working on to something called the outer space treaty which was a treaty negotiated in 1960s. Between the united take between the United States and the Soviet Union. And we agreed to certain conditions in that it actually outlaws. Private property inspection. This is a problem that every nation right now that's trying to establish. Private enterprise the states is trying to deal with because if he signed the other states treaty which the US has Luxembourg has which many countries that. You have trouble because he cannot apply American law. To any territory onstage at all if it's under the regime of the the UN. The steak and cheese is known agent claimed any territory which means the nation's laws applied any territory so you've got mining operation. You can't all of that lands. You've got to work of the UN regime and you're gonna have been able to this so basically it comes communal property and the concept got good. And so there's been a real effort to try to figure out some way to get around the outer space treaty and I'd been arguing that rockets and ends folks and so what. For now almost two decades weakest. As a nation we should just dump the outer space treaty. I I can't if trump wants to really. There have been have a real club policy and pulled out future space exploration. The typical that we have an option you can get out of the treaty should lead the treaty station stepped close and negotiate patient. That we create a had a poll stating. Applications. Where the first to get there can claim is certainly. And it will be under their rules so that create competition between patient I have no problems that. And so some nations will grab somewhere at some will grab others the Benadryl will know what the rule of law. And you have the chance to actually hit it for the nation's territory and the citizens of those nations that will all that territory. It's until that happens we're gonna have a problem state I I see a scenario where we are oppressing the people. In states that eventually will be leading them because they won't have the same kind of rights we take for granted United States. And eventually they're gonna just like the American you know the colonists back in the seventeen hundreds of any date that is six. Kind of the earth with a capital equipment be independent because we want to be treated like every what we should be. Well I know we all are looking ought to Luxembourg org space program but I think Ted you know it seems as though the submit the powers that were most pertinent to that. Treaty obviously the United States and the Soviet Union one of those two powers does not exist anymore. That's correct. That's his view entry it's still insistent so Russia has signed onto it as the replacement solution its stated it. It's taken over excitement. From Luxembourg interest in that they do something that he's really radical as a nation they treat. Tax dollars as an investment capital. I don't have a fifty program is gonna be like may be psyched. Ten people and it ought to lose his job is to find good business proposals to address the tax dollars eons to make money. This is what they've done two decades we've become a public political and yes. One of the leading satellite companies the world to Luxembourg based company. The return and that creates profit and return to the taxpayer as profit in it and it's a really interesting concept. And that's exactly what they do they'll have a program. Like building something. They want to invest their tax dollars. In the things that can make money in space and that's what they wanna make them a central place for that kind of investment. And then a certain extent it's working a lot of businesses. Wanna do stuff that states are moving to Luxembourg is that this operation could kick and get. Investment capital from Luxembourg as. Well Bob thanks for being here we're out of time but we're gonna reschedule or gonna schedule yet to come back. And had this other climate conversation because and that's also one that has to be had in the meantime ought to give your website again any social media or anything else who want people who know that your books. Well you know my web site. Behind the black April the fiftieth anniversary of the Apollo eight mission initiated going to be a lot of talk about it and I wrote the book. Can historic Apollo eight we just released an audiobook of its. We're in this Greg by global golf is one of the top audio guys in the country that was an under the city DeWitt. It's actually really dramatically guns shooting nicely done and so it's also available and people keep control things from my web site. There are available little people and as well portable clothes the the audiobook. You know and so on you know in my web site worth checking the creation this subject because I keep up its everyday. Absolutely Bob thanks so much drama nominee now and we look forward having on again at some point there to take a break whom we come back to wrap things up it's beyond reality rating Jason. It's a great program before. And that he better quickly jump toward Seoul minds here we've got Preston from Alabama on the line they press and welcome to the show. What you are you doing sir good welcomed the show. And Jason I'm doing and doing great about yourself. What's on your mind undermined presser we don't have a lot of time. Yeah tired collegiate woman and strengthen a quick equation and you know. I tend to run through you look at teacher mingling. And delegates won't listen he got excited. I actually did GD brought it to me. So he had it and brought it over so I and I really appreciate that. Yes sir I thank the one over there he is now way. Howell thank you very much and they sure Conan. Yes Terry it fee per game changed Jason my emotions be romancing your. And I just want to have a signed photo of the search whenever you have harem. All right let me see what they can do for a and yeah but thank you and thanks again for the picture yet thank you for the call as well press and we appreciate you listening and being part of the show our oil it's going to be a pretty much to have forest tonight JAL has agreed to help him the executive Robert Zimmerman for come and hang around and make she check out his site behind the black. And and we got a great show tomorrow soon I mean she tune in and also head over to FaceBook dot com slash beyond reality radio. Like the FaceBook page forest then had to be under reality radio dot com find all the stations we are cross country in the atlas is constantly being updated with new stations being out of all the time. So check it often end up also download the free Smartphone app straight at the web site. Now allows you to listen to the show alive catch nationals all on the go. Makes it easy in this sort of sold well but the supreme must do for us you listen Jason GV beyond really reveal until tomorrow. You don't know ingredients taste good Jason Allison GB Jackson into this one I'll simply tell incidents with. It's entirely on real ingredients. Yeah. You never stopped going to finish the agency hello Hayden sent peacekeepers will Jason hello slow and she's supposed to taps to TV Johnson following. TV chief paranormal if you talked to being just beyond Rio Rio or you have a suggestion for guest contacts with the idea that slick Eddie Edwards at gmail.com be short visit our chat room as well I'd beyond reality where you dot com thanks for listening.